Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

[Ray Barnes]

If the suppressor in on a Form 4 through a NFA trust, ad him to the trust and he is good to go.

How do you distinguish between individuals who are qualified to possess a firearm and those who are not qualified when adding them to the trust?

[sonanth]

If he/she cannot legally possess a firearm, they shouldn't be on it.

[John Titsworth]

If the suppressor in on a Form 4 through a NFA trust, ad him to the trust and he is good to go.

The ATF will eventually eliminate the corporate/trust method when they figure out that the silencer has been transferred to an entity and then people (potentially thousands of people, even those with criminal records, or people that cannot pass background checks) can be added to the corporation or trust.

What would preclude someone starting a trust called "The Collective Silencer User Trust". Under this trust anybody can join for a small fee and then take possession of "Trust Silencers" whenever they feel like it. This method of ownership would defeat the spirit of the law/regulations and we all know how ATF is about making up new rules for us.

Bottom line: Don’t loan your silencers, machine guns, AOW's, DD's, etc under any circumstances for any reason EVER. Never borrow a silencer for any length of time, as you will be in illegal possession of a device that is not registered to you. You will go to jail. I believe the minimum sentencing guidelines for a first offense with an NFA violation is 4 years in prison. A felony conviction will ruin your life...and for what? Saving a few hundred dollars?

[Ray Barnes]

If he/she cannot legally possess a firearm, they shouldn't be on it.

Of course, but how do you verify this if you are unable to execute a background check?

[continuity]

If he/she cannot legally possess a firearm, they shouldn't be on it.

Of course, but how do you verify this if you are unable to execute a background check?

The circle of friends/family that I would place on a trust that I hold is extremely narrow. These are the same people that have signatory authorization to my bank checking acct. and the one(s) that will make medical intervention decisions if I become unable to do so for myself. If I felt that a backgound on them was necessary, they wouldn't even have been considered for that level of trust. My friend and family member with this status can be counted on two fingers.

Having said that, there are several infernalnet sites who for a nominal cash payment will provide you with all public record information on a person. zabasearch.com, and peoplesearch.com being but two of them.

[glocker17]

My attorney provided a document to use to make amendments to the trust she created, back when I had it initially created. The trust it self mentions this process in some detail. Depends on the trust laws in your state. I just got a notary to stamp it.

J.T. I dont think the ATF will stop entity transfers due to this. How could they even do any criminal checks on the trustees with no identifiers? I dont think ATF is even trying to verify that trustors or beneficiaries are in legal possession, just to make sure entity itself can take possession.

I think it comes down to following your states trust laws, and not adding an individual who would be in unlawful possession. My .02

FYI. I would NOT amend a trust to let a buddy use a can once in a while.

[GoodOlDave]

If the suppressor in on a Form 4 through a NFA trust, ad him to the trust and he is good to go.

The ATF will eventually eliminate the corporate/trust method when they figure out that the silencer has been transferred to an entity and then people (potentially thousands of people, even those with criminal records, or people that cannot pass background checks) can be added to the corporation or trust.

This is the one thing that originally scared me away from going trust. If the ATF wakes up from its own beaurocracy and realize there's a loophole that allows people to register silencers without paying $120,000, getting RFID chip implants, and having to speak pig latin for the rest of their lives, and they decide to stop accepting trust methods, will this retroactively revoke all the trust method registrations they've already made, or are we safe? Dunno what I would do if an ATF agent showed up and told me I had a choice between surrendering my silencer or speaking in pig latin for the rest of my life...

Eyhay, Iyay ustjay OTGAY ymay ilencersay!

[singtoe]

tell your buddy to go buy his own...

[renegade]

The ATF will eventually eliminate the corporate/trust method when

Corps/trust are authorized by 1934NFA, so only Congress can eliminate it. Otherwise it would already be gone ...

[sonanth]

The circle of friends/family that I would place on a trust that I hold is extremely narrow. These are the same people that have signatory authorization to my bank checking acct. and the one(s) that will make medical intervention decisions if I become unable to do so for myself. If I felt that a backgound on them was necessary, they wouldn't even have been considered for that level of trust. My friend and family member with this status can be counted on two fingers.

What continuity said 100%.

Of course, but how do you verify this if you are unable to execute a background check?

If you are worried about background checks on the people you want to put on your trust, then, they definitely shouldn't be on it.

[Scoundrel]

I read through the thread but did not see whether it's OK to let a buddy use my suppressor while I'm standing right there next to him.
I did see a reference to "physical presence" early in the thread but I just want to clarify that with no doubt.

If I take a friend shooting, and I hand him a firearm with suppressor attached, he shoots it and then hands it back, has anyone violated the law there?

[J Krammes]

Anyone can use your suppressor/SBR/SBS/machinegun. You just must be present.

[continuity]

I read through the thread but did not see whether it's OK to let a buddy use my suppressor while I'm standing right there next to him.
I did see a reference to "physical presence" early in the thread but I just want to clarify that with no doubt.

If I take a friend shooting, and I hand him a firearm with suppressor attached, he shoots it and then hands it back, has anyone violated the law there?

If you are the tax transferred entity on the form x, or a trust originator/designate relative the NFA item, any associated item can be handled/used by any person, as long as are in control/proximity to the subject NFA item.

Caveat being that, that person is able to possess a firearm relative state/local law. To be specific, if they can't handle a firearm due to adjudication, they can't handle your NFA item.

To shorten the answer... as long as they're not a prohibited person, you can let ure buddy use ure stuff... you are good to go... no violation. Stand back and let them..."fire at will".

[raymond-]

My attorney provided a document to use to make amendments to the trust she created, back when I had it initially created. The trust it self mentions this process in some detail. Depends on the trust laws in your state. I just got a notary to stamp it.

J.T. I dont think the ATF will stop entity transfers due to this. How could they even do any criminal checks on the trustees with no identifiers? I dont think ATF is even trying to verify that trustors or beneficiaries are in legal possession, just to make sure entity itself can take possession.

I think it comes down to following your states trust laws, and not adding an individual who would be in unlawful possession. My .02

FYI. I would NOT amend a trust to let a buddy use a can once in a while.

wow, i am just catching up on older threads and read this opinion. so 2+ years later and we're looking at the changing conditions just around the corner which stand to spin this 180º