Anyone using a suppressor for self defense or SHTF?

[Kip42]

I want to set a rifle up for self defense/ hunting for food durring a SHTF situation.

What are you using and why?

Seems like a good idea if I have to cap a deer for food. It wont drawl attention to my location.

Also seems like it would work well if I was defending my familly in my bug out location. Figure a suppressed shot will conceal me and keep lotters away.

How close in yards can an enemy be for you to fire at them and them not know where you are? I currently have an M4 set up but am looking for something more reliable.

Thinking about an M1A, DSA FAL, or Sig 556. Which of these rifles will hide me best from a gang of looters at close range? I am saying if they dont see me will they be able to locate me at night.

In complete darkness rate the muzzle flash of a Sig 556, M1A, FAL and AK47 with suppressors.

I want to set one rifle up for a bad situation, suppress it, paint it coyote tan, put a light and sling and a few mags.

[hs338lapua]

First!

Tag for an epic thread, hopefully.

[Wahnsinn]

This is one of the main reasons I gave my wife for wanting a suppressor. She laughed a little, but I told her she'll thank me if/when the time comes.

[Libertarian_Geek]

It's been discussed here before. I guess it was only a matter of time before it popped up again.


Long story short IIRC, the slight advantages are going to be vastly outweighed by the legal disadvantages after the event. Yeah, I know, you want to worry about life first and legal issues second. It sounds nice, but it's a red-herring fajita served over a comparison of apples and oranges. Legal issues can equate to a pretty sorry quality of life, and since most folks would prefer to prepare for the worst, and consideration of your legal defense is a part of that. From the moment you realize you're in danger, past the point when the cops show up until it's finally settled.

It's like the old argument saying "money is no object when it's my life on the line." Bullshit. If money is no object, then you'd have more body guards than the president. That old statement is just someone trying to explain away and lie to themselves about how the salesman got them with that pitch, and they were too mentally lazy to think it through.

Sorry to rant. None of this is aimed aimed at you... I just have soapboxes for feet.

Long story short: it's not advised by anyone that I know of but some people do it.

SHTF... different story (possibly)

[Bowen1911]

Bolt action .22, barrel cut to about 6 inches, with a 6- 7 inch silencer on it. shoot CCI Standard velocities. Head shot on a deer= drops. throw it in the truck, get the hell out of there. no one knows what happened and you are silent.

[silencertalk]

I would say you want one to not harm your hearing.

[Kip42]

Im more concered with if all heck broke lose. I would have my familly and a few friends with me. Figure a suppressed shot would have them find a differnet target.

I want to upgrade from an m4 to an AK47, Sig 556, or FAL for reliability but fear it wont be as stealthy. Also will deff. have to hunt for food. How close can a bg be for them not to know where I am by muzzle flash or sound if they dont have a visual?

Can I get zero muzzle flash out of an AK, FAL, or Sig 556 at night? I would like to be able to fire a suppressed warning shot to give them the idea to find an easier place to loot. My BOL is rural and have a large area to defend with next to no help.

[PAIN]

I 'd use a subsonic 22 LR rifle. This is the only way be be totally quiet. Add a night vision scope on it and you could hunt at night without bringing attention to yourself.

Otherwise, there is still sound and flash out of centerfire weapons.

[Kip42]

Im more worried about them to be able to tell where the sound is comming from. There will allways be sound but I was wondering to what extent they could tell where its comming from in a defending my location against multible badguys siuation.

[silencertalk]

I really can't imagine a situation where I was defending myself from people so far away that they did not realize that I was the one shooting.

[finn]

I'd go as far as to say that's true by definition.

I really can't imagine a situation where I was defending myself from people so far away that they did not realize that I was the one shooting.

[Raines/762-SD]

Im more worried about them to be able to tell where the sound is comming from. There will allways be sound but I was wondering to what extent they could tell where its comming from in a defending my location against multible badguys siuation.

Problem is why are you engaging bad guys if they don't know where your at?! How could you possibly claim self defense in such a situation?!

[Selectedmarksman]

In a sane world, I would consider use of a suppressor not just ok, but one's moral responsibility in home defense situations. If you found yourself in dire need of defending your life or the lives of your family should you be forced to cause irreparable hearing damage in the process? Of course not. One should protect more than their life, but their health and well-being.

Of course, if this truly were a sane world we wouldn't have to worry about home invasion to begin with. So, there are criminals who break into homes with intent do do harm and juries who are incapable of conceiving of a law abiding citizen owning an 'evil' silencer.

[Kip42]

I'd go as far as to say that's true by definition.

I really can't imagine a situation where I was defending myself from people so far away that they did not realize that I was the one shooting.

My bug out location is in an area that noone would go to unless they were there to loot it. I would like to have the option to fire a warning shot from a place so they would turn around and go else where. If a warning shot doesnt stop them I would believe they are not there for peaceful purposes.

I though a suppressor disguised the sound wave so that they could hear the boom but not have any idea where you are even within 50 yards?

[Selectedmarksman]

I'd go as far as to say that's true by definition.

I really can't imagine a situation where I was defending myself from people so far away that they did not realize that I was the one shooting.

My bug out location is in an area that noone would go to unless they were there to loot it. I would like to have the option to fire a warning shot from a place so they would turn around and go else where. If a warning shot doesnt stop them I would believe they are not there for peaceful purposes.

I though a suppressor disguised the sound wave so that they could hear the boom but not have any idea where you are even within 50 yards?

Rule #1 of defensive shootings: There are no warning shots. There are plenty of examples of people either making a situation worse, or being crucified in court later, for firing warning shots. Pulling the trigger is using deadly force. Deadly force should only be used as a defense against an actual threat.

But I'm not a lawyer, yada yada...

[finn]

That is a bold assumption.

My bug out location is in an area that noone would go to unless they were there to loot it.

How do you expect a person to react to a warning shot where all they hear is sonic crack? Most people will either drop to the ground or run in a random direction (towards you?)

I would like to have the option to fire a warning shot...
... disguised the sound wave so that they could hear the boom but not have any idea where you are even within 50 yards?

Sure, get a silencer and keep it on whatever gun you want for defense. I think your scenarios are unrealistic though. It sort of sounds like you want to play sniper on your property, which would be murder even on your own property.

[Ben B.]

Kind of a funny thread, but I bought my M4-2K and put it on a 16" AR that basically just sits around waiting for....whatever it may be. In the highly unlikely situation that I ever need a black rifle, have time to retrieve a rifle and then put it to use, I don't expect to give a damn about any appearances engendered by having a hush tube on it.

[PAIN]

[quote="Kip42
I currently have an M4 set up but am looking for something more reliable.
[/quote]

M4s are normally very reliable. Also are excellent for close in fighting. It offers lots of firepower & light weight.
What's wrong with yours?

Set up two cans. A 22 rifle for small game and your M4 for 2 legged threats. Add night vision to your guns. Live in the shadows, make the night your friend. Other than this advise, have friends and set up trip lines around your perimeter.

[Kip42]

The m4 will start to fail fast than an ak if things get really bad. I doubt anything will happen but it wont hurt to be prepared for a long term diaster. Katrina relief or lack of made me worried. People around me never preparedd and now it seems everyone is.

At what distance does it throw the wave that they cant locate you by sound and will it make difference with the rifles and calibers that I listed?

[Historian]

In a sane world, I would consider use of a suppressor not just ok, but one's moral responsibility in home defense situations. If you found yourself in dire need of defending your life or the lives of your family should you be forced to cause irreparable hearing damage in the process? Of course not. One should protect more than their life, but their health and well-being.

Of course, if this truly were a sane world we wouldn't have to worry about home invasion to begin with. So, there are criminals who break into homes with intent do do harm and juries who are incapable of conceiving of a law abiding citizen owning an 'evil' silencer.

Effectively stated!

Last year a friend's dad in his 80's woke at 2 a.m. to someone banging on his front door. He got up, grabbed his .380 and
put on his shooting ear protectors. He turned on the bright porch light and he peered out through the front door's window.
Two young men of dubious lineage pulled back startled and eyes wide at this bug eared apparition. Without a word they left post haste.

A few weeks later in the nearby neighborhood there was a home invasion with unhappy results.

"Dad figured that since he could not get a suppressor he used a 'Polish" silencer." We burst out laughing, especially as his dad is Polish.

Lesson is that an unexpected startling behavior can be quite effective.

My 'shooting ears' are now always by the door. As my old DI buddy used to say " My momma didn't raise no fool".

[PAIN]

At what distance does it throw the wave that they cant locate you by sound and will it make difference with the rifles and calibers that I listed?

A bolt action 22 could be 20 yards or less. Some systems are "talking" loud or less. M4 might be 200 yards or less. Possibly as loud as a lawn mower for 1 second. With the M4 you also have the crack of the bullet to contend with. This sound can be heard for up to 700 yards easily.

Remember in a city environment, city traffic and normal everyday life will curb the sounds to almost nothing.

You could fire a unsuppressed 22 in the city 1 time and nobody would even notice. Fire it 10 times and a few will pick up the sound as unnatural. Gun enthusiasts will pick up the sounds of gunfire faster than non gun enthusiasts.

[okent]

I get what the OP is saying.
A true SHTF situation where the country has had the reset button pushed.

For self defense I would stick with an AR15: light weight, readily available parts and ammo, reliable.
A 308 caliber will give you more wiggle room but fewer people will be able to shoot it effectively due to weight and your round count will be less.(think your wife or whoever)

Standoff distance is going to be around 500 yards and in a night shoot scenario you are probably looking at 2-300 yards max with a PVS-14 set up on your gun. If you get some kind of magnified NV scope then you can double that easily. Figure on them being over 100 yards to maintain any degree of concealibility, 200+ is preferable.

A suppressor will do very well at masking your muzzle flash so I wouldn't worry about that.
Plan on being able to get about 150 rounds down your gun before the probability of malfunctions with a suppressor. If you have a piston setup then at least triple that round count.

Throw that warning shot business out the door. If it is really bad then all you have done with a warning shot is to let them know you are there and have stuff to come back for. With someone in your area in this situation you are playing for keeps so act accordingly.

Use a suppressed .22lr for hunting.

[Kip42]

Yes, I am talking more for society is completly gone (as has happened in other countries), and I am forced to take an offensive. I never prepared by after talking with Katrina survivors I now think its a good idea. I want every advantage I can get.

So the Sig 556 will run 3x or more as long as a suppressed M4? Are you talking about they have to be atleast 100 yards away if im using regular ammo to not recognize where the sound is comming from? Would the 100 yard general rule apply to 5.56, 762x39 and .308? My main concern is the enemy dumping ammo in the direction of the fired shot sound and flash.

Im thinking a suppressed henry survival rifle will do the trick for hunting.

I wish thermal was more affordable and might hold out for a PVS14 style thermal monocular for 3k in the future.

[okent]

Yes, I believe it will.
I did testing with a standard DI AR15 compared to a POF piston driven gun and those were the numbers I came up with.
You can get the same benefit by retrofitting your AR with a drop in piston kit for much less cost than the Sig.
Be sure you have a chrome lined barrel and chamber.

The distance issue is independent of caliber. This is my general rule of thumb. The sonic crack of the round passing will be pretty good at masking your position. If your hide is set up well a random spray of bullets shouldn't matter much.

Remember that the Sig and AK will be louder to your ear and louder in general due to the way they vent gas. This won't make much of a difference to the observer at distance, just your long term hearing.

If you want to be maximally stealthy then get a 300 whisper and rule with impunity!

[doubloon]

I would say you want one to not harm your hearing.

this

I really can't imagine a situation where I was defending myself from people so far away that they did not realize that I was the one shooting.

and this