300 AAC BLACKOUT (300BLK)

[pierre1631]

Where do I get one??? Who do I need to bribe, cheat, steal from to get one Robert??????????????

[este]

1. How is this not 300 Whisper? How is it different, are they interchangeable if you are reamed for one or the other?

2. How much of a commitment does AAC/Rem/Freedom have to this new caliber? Or is going to be some 30AR crap?

3. How does the 762-SDN6 compare to the 762SD? How are they different? Can we get some comparison spec and data? Maybe some meter readings on different hosts?

3a. If you don't have a 30cal suppressor but plan to shoot x51 and x35, which can is recommended? Does the N6 work better on 51 than the SD does on x35?

4. What gas block does the AAC upper use? I assume it's DI, but it doesn't need adjustment between super and subs?

5. Will reamers be available for 300Blk? This is important to me because if I switch to a caliber I'm going to want more than one gun in it. For instance, if I do an AR, I'm also going to want a CZ-527 or a Rem (799,700,Model 7,etc).

6. Along that line, is a bolt gun coming in 300B?

7. Is this an AAC product that I call AAC to buy? Is it possible to get an upper without the KAC rail? (I find that rail heavy). Or is the only alternative to get a barrel and build it out?

8. Have 240gr been tested in the upper?

8a. Will BRASS be available? And who makes it?

9. Can anyone talk a little bit about the bolt that comes with the upper... 158? Works fine for 223?

10. What threading is the barrel?

11. WHEN WILL THE ROUNDS AND UPPERS BE AVAILABLE!?

That's about all I can think of for now.

[ronin111]

Some details here
http://300aacblackout.com

[seattlite]

From the PDF...looks like they sell the barrel assembly separately: "$425 - Barrel assembly with gas block and tube, thread protector- P/N 100903"

[-k-]

1. How is this not 300 Whisper?

The 300 Whisper(R) is proprietary and there are several wildcats 300 Fireball, 30/221, 300/221... Dimensions vary some among all of them so it's not safe to say it is the same without checking the chamber dimensions. SAAMI is how wildcats become legitimate cartridges with a standard dimension and pressure specs.

5. Will reamers be available for 300Blk? This is important to me because if I switch to a caliber I'm going to want more than one gun in it. For instance, if I do an AR, I'm also going to want a CZ-527 or a Rem (799,700,Model 7,etc).

It will be SAAMI so reamers will be easy for gunsmiths to order.

7. Is this an AAC product that I call AAC to buy? Is it possible to get an upper without the KAC rail? (I find that rail heavy). Or is the only alternative to get a barrel and build it out?

I expect smaller companies that make the wildcat will change to the 300 BLK when ammo is available, so most of what you can find in 300 FB should be available as 300 BLK.

[JasonAAC]

Este, I'll try from what I know:

1. How is this not 300 Whisper? How is it different, are they interchangeable if you are reamed for one or the other?

Cartridge specifics are Robert's area as he developed it, Robert on the difference between "300Blk" and "300 Whisper":

300 Whisper(R) can do the same thing. The problem is that I would say most load data for 300 Whisper is not very compatible with the AR15 for various reasons:

1. OAL too long.
2. Bullet won't feed well in an AR.
3. Powders inappropriate for the AR gas system.

So much 300 Whisper load data is for Thompson Center and bolt guns only.

So it was better to start fresh. While I cannot say it is compatible because we are not sure of all of the wildcat chambers and random old loads out there, it was not designed to be incompatible either.

Remington 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo is specifically designed to be a reliable system for the AR platform. It was submitted to SAAMI and other ammo companies will be able to make ammo also, royalty-free. Likewise, many gun companies will be announcing 300 AAC BLACKOUT guns between now and the Shot Show.

Reloading dies are available from Forster.

2. How much of a commitment does AAC/Rem/Freedom have to this new caliber? Or is going to be some 30AR crap?

A huge commitment. They are very supportive of the project and it has been tested very favorably by certain 'groups'. I want an ACR in 300BLK.

3. How does the 762-SDN6 compare to the 762SD? How are they different? Can we get some comparison spec and data? Maybe some meter readings on different hosts?

Go to http://www.300aacblackout.com and scroll down. the second PDF download has the specs for the 762-SDN-6.

3a. If you don't have a 30cal suppressor but plan to shoot x51 and x35, which can is recommended? Does the N6 work better on 51 than the SD does on x35?

Not sure yet. I have not seen the test results.

4. What gas block does the AAC upper use? I assume it's DI, but it doesn't need adjustment between super and subs?

It is a low pro DI gas block. Robert would know specifically. No adjustment sub to super. The ammo has been developed specifically to function this way. ie the super load is different than the sub load to maximize performance and function.

5. Will reamers be available for 300Blk? This is important to me because if I switch to a caliber I'm going to want more than one gun in it. For instance, if I do an AR, I'm also going to want a CZ-527 or a Rem (799,700,Model 7,etc).

Yes, it's an open standard, SAAMI has it. dies, reamers, etc should be available.

6. Along that line, is a bolt gun coming in 300B?

Not sure when, but i would say yes. We have a Model-7 in 300 BLK that has been awesome.

7. Is this an AAC product that I call AAC to buy? Is it possible to get an upper without the KAC rail? (I find that rail heavy). Or is the only alternative to get a barrel and build it out?

It is an AAC product that will be available through us and our dealers. The complete upper (9" PDW) comes as pictured with the KAC rail. At first your other option will be to buy the barrel. Not sure of additional configs.

8. Have 240gr been tested in the upper?

Robert would know. All I've used is up to the 220gr.

8a. Will BRASS be available? And who makes it?

The quick answer is yes, but I do not know details.

9. Can anyone talk a little bit about the bolt that comes with the upper... 158? Works fine for 223?

The bolt is a very good carpenter steel setup with AAC-developed springs and details. It will work well in 5.56. The only non-5.56 standard part of the system is the barrel.

10. What threading is the barrel?

5/8-24

11. WHEN WILL THE ROUNDS AND UPPERS BE AVAILABLE!?

Not a firm date, but I know they are being built now.

That's about all I can think of for now.

Sorry I couldn't answer all, people will be along to fill in the holes.

[seattlite]

3. How does the 762-SDN6 compare to the 762SD? How are they different? Can we get some comparison spec and data? Maybe some meter readings on different hosts?

Go to http://www.300aacblackout.com and scroll down. the second PDF download has the specs for the 762-SDN-6. In a nutshell, it is shorter/lighter/and louder than the full-size 762-SD. Meter numbers on different hosts will be coming.

From the PDF and the AAC 7.62-SD Specs:
762-SDN-6 = 19.85oz (762-SDN-6 Specs)
762-SD = 19.1oz (762-SD Specs)

Looks like the 762-SDN-6 is a little heavier. Are the specs for the 762-SD in error?

[este]

.... ....

Want Want Want Want Want Want.

[este]

I can't find 9" vs 16" subsonic 220gr muzzle velocities anywhere. Is it the same subsonic ammo for 9" and 16" barrels?

Also, who do I give my money to? Will Major be stocking/selling these? Are they going out to dealers or just sold through AAC?

[Silverado2500hd]

Deffininitly WANT!!!

Very Sweet!

[renegade]

Looks like I just figured out what to do with my KAC Xmas lower.

[Selectedmarksman]

I'm interested, but I'll want to see the ammo on shelves and for a reasonable price before investing in the platform myself. Of course, I understand that can be a self-defeating mindset if it is shared by too many.

[goteron]

I definately want one too. I would like to see a 12.5" ish barrel as well. What will price per round be?

[Schulze]

3. How does the 762-SDN6 compare to the 762SD? How are they different? Can we get some comparison spec and data? Maybe some meter readings on different hosts?

Go to http://www.300aacblackout.com and scroll down. the second PDF download has the specs for the 762-SDN-6. In a nutshell, it is shorter/lighter/and louder than the full-size 762-SD. Meter numbers on different hosts will be coming.

From the PDF and the AAC 7.62-SD Specs:
762-SDN-6 = 19.85oz (762-SDN-6 Specs)
762-SD = 19.1oz (762-SD Specs)

Looks like the 762-SDN-6 is a little heavier. Are the specs for the 762-SD in error?

No, a little over 19oz is right for the SD. Just doing a little estimation comparing the Db/cu in (for 308), I'm getting around 1.9 for the N6 compared to the 1.88 of the cyclone and 1.66 of the SD. Maybe they did a little updating of the internals.

[este]

I'm interested, but I'll want to see the ammo on shelves and for a reasonable price before investing in the platform myself. Of course, I understand that can be a self-defeating mindset if it is shared by too many.

I agree on let's see it first. I don't understand SAMMI at all, but I imagine that to get them as an entity to approve or even look at a new cartridge there needs to be some cash involved and a bit of testing (also cash). This round is PERFECT for a silencer company, esp one who has good rifle cans but probably has to deal with constant disappointment from people who expect hollywood quite out of a 10" AR. This round let's them say, "hey, forget that stupid 223, here is a more powerful round and a crazy quite round all out of the same gun, no dicking around with wildcat cartridges etc". It's a GREAT idea. The only reason I can imagine it hasn't been done before is there must be a barrier to entry in getting the round 'legitimized'. So, if it cost money, they may be serious about doing it. Which means parts, and rounds ready to go. They may price themselves out of the game with their own ammo, but I almost doubt it. Most whisper guys reload, so in order to get their money they may have to price it cheap enough that it would be a good deal. Maybe.

More to your point about availability though, it doesn't matter. Read this one of two ways... AAC releases an upper and ammo for it, sweet. Or that 7.62x35 is a real thing, that you can buy reamers for, has REAL load data, etc. This means even if AAC turns belly up tomorrow, the x35 round is free for anyone to use.

Even if you are sworn against AAC, there very likely will be other companies jumping on this. This is HUGE.

[este]

I definately want one too. I would like to see a 12.5" ish barrel as well. What will price per round be?

WHY?

If they have a 9" that moves a 220gr stable, accurate and has the proper gas port size to work super or subsonic, why would you possibly want a longer barrel? What do you think you're gaining?

[Silent Shooters]

is there a reason for the DI gas system?

it just seems like everyone is going to a piston system these days.

and yes i will have me one of these too!

[silencertalk]

1. How is this not 300 Whisper? How is it different, are they interchangeable if you are reamed for one or the other?

Since that is a wildcat, I can't say it is compatible as there is no standard - but 300 AAC BLACKOUT was compatible with two 300-221 reamers I have seen drawings for. I have a RUAG 300 Whisper drawing and it was a fit for our chamber.

2. How much of a commitment does AAC/Rem/Freedom have to this new caliber? Or is going to be some 30AR crap?

Well, since I have spent a year doing this, I have a lot of commitment to it. I am the project lead on this. 30 AR is another group.

3. How does the 762-SDN6 compare to the 762SD? How are they different? Can we get some comparison spec and data? Maybe some meter readings on different hosts?

Different guts.

3a. If you don't have a 30cal suppressor but plan to shoot x51 and x35, which can is recommended? Does the N6 work better on 51 than the SD does on x35?

I am not ready to answer this. I have not done a lot of 308 testing with it. I can say it is strong enough for 308 as it is at least as beefy as the 762-SD.

4. What gas block does the AAC upper use? I assume it's DI, but it doesn't need adjustment between super and subs?

With AAC ammo on the 9 inch barrel, no adjustment is needed for it to run subsonic unsuppressed to supersonic suppressed. This was done by creating subsonic ammo with more gas pressure than what was common for most 300 Whisper loads.

5. Will reamers be available for 300Blk? This is important to me because if I switch to a caliber I'm going to want more than one gun in it. For instance, if I do an AR, I'm also going to want a CZ-527 or a Rem (799,700,Model 7,etc).

Yes, it was submitted to SAAMI. That means anyone can chamber guns for it, and any ammo company can make ammo for it. We made it non-proprietary and royalty free.

6. Along that line, is a bolt gun coming in 300B?

Yes.

7. Is this an AAC product that I call AAC to buy? Is it possible to get an upper without the KAC rail? (I find that rail heavy). Or is the only alternative to get a barrel and build it out?

Our uppers have KAC rails. If you don't want a KAC rail, you can buy our barrel and make an upper, or you can buy an upper from another company once they figure out how to make their gas system work well with our ammo. I still recommend our upper due to the testing we did.

8. Have 240gr been tested in the upper?

No, just 220.

8a. Will BRASS be available? And who makes it?

Remington makes the brass. I won't be available until later.

9. Can anyone talk a little bit about the bolt that comes with the upper... 158? Works fine for 223?

Yes, I spoke to the guy who did the work on the RGP upper and asked him what were the best bolts. I then got samples and compared them to several other bolts. He was right - they matched the drawing dead-center on all measurements - every one we inspected. They are made for us from C158. Companies that claim 9310 is better, I believe, only say that because they cannot afford C158. Freedom Group has a stash of 20,000 lbs of C158. They are HPT but not MPI - which I feel is useless. Some people will pick on that, but it is only an M4 milspec and not for the G36, Sig 550, etc. I would rather put our inspection budget into making sure all of the critical measurements gauge out.

I spent an inordinate amount of time on the extraction system. I am having 5000 springs made from Rocket Wire - at more than double the cost of mil spec springs. The wire is certified 383,000 psi min tensile strength. Mil-spec is 363,000. Chrome Silicon springs are just about 330,000. So way better than CS. There is an o-ring which has better low-temp performance than Viton. It was designed as part of the system from the beginning and they work in combination to last longer than a heavy-duty but high stress spring. Even with the lower-grade mil-spec wire, Remington tested two to 18,000 rounds each without breakage.

10. What threading is the barrel?

5/8-24.

11. WHEN WILL THE ROUNDS AND UPPERS BE AVAILABLE!?

60,000 rounds have been made. Most of that is gone from testing. 100,000 rounds more in late October, but most of that is already reserved for the military. Then about 400,000 more rounds throughout 2011.

Uppers - I would say October.

[Schulze]

is there a reason for the DI gas system?

it just seems like everyone is going to a piston system these days.

and yes i will have me one of these too!

AAC should design a piston system with a little silencer around where the excess gas is bled off.

[silencertalk]

is there a reason for the DI gas system?

it just seems like everyone is going to a piston system these days.

and yes i will have me one of these too!

Several of us like DI. Lighter, often quieter, more accuracy potential, smoother recoil, less violent on optics, no carrier tilt - and with a can - pistol gets dirty also because the junk comes through the bore.

[este]

Since that is a wildcat, I can't say it is compatible as there is no standard - but 300 AAC BLACKOUT was compatible with two 300-221 reamers I have seen drawings for. I have a RUAG 300 Whisper drawing and it was a fit for our chamber.

So, VERY close to some whispers/300-221. For all intents I'll consider them completely separate but it's interesting to know just how close they are. I suspect the SAAMI testing was not free. I also think this is time well spent for a silencer company. It seems so damn obvious now, wonder why no one else has done this? This is going to be a money maker.

With AAC ammo on the 9 inch barrel, no adjustment is needed for it to run subsonic unsuppressed to supersonic suppressed. This was done by creating subsonic ammo with more gas pressure than what was common for most 300 Whisper loads.

I'd be a little curious how well a home reloader will be able to match the factory ammo in this regard. I see there are already recommended loads so that's a great start.

Yes, it was submitted to SAAMI. That means anyone can chamber guns for it, and any ammo company can make ammo for it. We made it non-proprietary and royalty free.

This is very commendable. I appreciate not pulling some JD Jones crap. It's a double edged sword of course, but it's the right thing to do.

Yes. (A bolt gun is coming)

Model 7 and before the end of the year?

I still recommend our upper due to the testing we did.

KAC rail or not, I agree that I'm sooner to buy the upper and give the rail a shot over buying a barrel alone. Been down that route, it's not cheaper.

I would rather put our inspection budget into making sure all of the critical measurements gauge out.

THIS I can really get behind. I picked up a super-duper Spikes nickle boron bolt/carrier that while the bolt was "in spec" it would lock up anything but perfect ammo in my wilde chamber. I had the bolt face shaved 2 thou and low and behold it's perfect now. Spikes claimed in spec but it was 2 thou over an LMT so while I bet it matched their tolerances it didn't work for me.


I'm excited. Will dealers be selling the uppers or is it direct only? Also, is the subsonic ammo the same for the 9" and 16"? And muzzle velocities on those?

[silencertalk]

Dealers will have them.

[jakjakman]

Okay, I'll say it. How damn sexy would this be for the ACR?

[Silverado2500hd]

Dealers will have them.

Is ther a way to get on a pre order list? If so can i be number 1 This is Way cool!

[renegade]

Was sound suppression a design requirement?

It would seem to me if I owned a silencer company I would long for designing a cartridge for suppression (start with clean sheet of paper) instead of fitting my silencers to existing cartridges that are not designed for suppression.

Do you get full capacity out of a magazine?