hinged micro-suppresor

[dry]

I was loolking at pictures of the db380 and PM9 with thomson and degroat micro-suppresors on them I was thinking if the micro-supresors were attached to the front of the pistols with a hinge instead of threads they could fold down down under out the way and would be alot easier to pocket carry without the length. When you pull them out they could flip back up with a flick of the wrist or maybe by a spring . Would creating something like that be alot harder to create than say a break action shotgun??

edit: I have a more detailed idea in bold print below.

[CThomas]

Thought about that 15 years ago but on a subgun. I conveyed it to my friend who is a machinst and shooter. He proceeded to laugh and call me an idiot.
I always thought a telescoping can would be cool, but how it would locked up would take a brighter mind then I.

[Blaubart]

I always thought a telescoping can would be cool, but how it would locked up would take a brighter mind then I.

Interesting idea. I wonder if it could be designed in such a way that the first shot extends it, without compromising too much on the noise level.

I also wonder how efficiently the baffles could be designed to telescope. Would it be an 8" can that would telescope to 6" without any nesting? Or could you get it down to 4" if you designed the baffles to nest inside each other? Or maybe 2" if you could collapse the blast chamber too...

[dry]

Thought about that 15 years ago but on a subgun. I conveyed it to my friend who is a machinst and shooter. He proceeded to laugh and call me an idiot.

They have break action .308, is the pressure on the muzzle of a 9mm pistol higher than the breach of a .308?

[doubloon]

I would think the problem would be more one of alignment than pressure, whether hinged or telescoping.

Moving parts tend to wear, wear affects alignment, alignment along the path of the bullet is critical.

In the case of the break action .308 you're talking about I'm assuming all the moving parts are behind the brass, there are no moving parts in front of the primer?

[Conaso]

Then I guess no one wants to hear my idea for a fold-away, revolving, multi-caliber suppressor with strobe & laser-light, bayonet, and picatinny rail/sling-swivel. Maybe "Sons of Guns" will like my idea.

[ronin111]

Then I guess no one wants to hear my idea for a fold-away, revolving, multi-caliber suppressor with strobe & laser-light, bayonet, and picatinny rail/sling-swivel. Maybe "Sons of Guns" will like my idea.

Only is you build three and attach them together. You could corner the market.

[dry]

I would think the problem would be more one of alignment than pressure, whether hinged or telescoping.

Moving parts tend to wear, wear affects alignment, alignment along the path of the bullet is critical.

In the case of the break action .308 you're talking about I'm assuming all the moving parts are behind the brass, there are no moving parts in front of the primer?

Assuming that the aligment issue is not gas leakage at the muzzle but more a problem with baffle strikes i'd have to ask what the aligment tolerance has to be for a micro 4" long wiped wet micro suppresor??? I dont think it would be nearly as tight as for a very long normal one.

[dry]

I always thought a telescoping can would be cool, but how it would locked up would take a brighter mind then I.

Telescoping tubes are off topic, but im to lazy to start another thread so heres my two less practical ideas.

A 3 to 6 tube supressor with a corresponding 3 to 6 baffles. Each tube would be slighty smaller diameter than the previous so they nest. Flanges on the tubes would prevent them from overextending and coming apart. During assembly one baffle would be inserted after a tube was inserted and the baffle would be crimped or welded to the front of an inner flange on that tube end. Becasuse of tube overlap, it would probably only shrink 50%. Would need many orings.

B medium supressor. Connecting each baffle to the next would be several short sliding pins. Each set of short pins would be offset from the next set and the baffles would need holes to make room for them. An outer kevlar tube would be sewed to the baffles. The very long suppresor would collapse to a very short one like an accordian!

[TROOPER]

I would think the problem would be more one of alignment than pressure, whether hinged or telescoping.

Moving parts tend to wear, wear affects alignment, alignment along the path of the bullet is critical.

In the case of the break action .308 you're talking about I'm assuming all the moving parts are behind the brass, there are no moving parts in front of the primer?

Assuming that the aligment issue is not gas leakage at the muzzle but more a problem with baffle strikes i'd have to ask what the aligment tolerance has to be for a micro 4" long wiped wet micro suppresor??? I dont think it would be nearly as tight as for a very long normal one.

I'd guess that the R&D for a collapsible/foldable 4" suppressor is very high without corresponding return on investment. I know for a fact that I -- as a suppressor owner and user -- would not reward the company who developed such a suppressor with a purchase, especially not in light of the fact that it would almost certainly cost much more than comparable non-folding, non-collapsing models. It would end up being a novelty item with such limited niche benefit that the buying base would be only the very minimal clandestine agents, or those with money to burn AND an interest in this particular hobby. That second crowd would have to have a LOT of money, because if someone wants to get involved with guns AND burn money, then that is extraordinarily easy to do even without reverting to oddball, high-cost ultra-specialty projects.

Regarding telescoping silencers, that'd be all kinds of slick, but it would have to be on pistol-only calibers. There isn't any benefit reducing an 8-inch silencer to a 4-inch on an 18-inch barreled bolt-action .308. And even on smaller pistols, the noise of it telescoping out (unless done by hand) make it impractical anyways. Nevermind the gas-seepage at even moderate levels -- something which could probably never happen on something like a .270.

All this nay-saying, sheesh! All I'm trying to say is that there are mechanical/engineering obstacles to overcome. Perhaps they could be overcome... I doubt it... but its possible. However, we should all agree that the costs to bring such a device from paper to functional reality is high. Which means that the cost-per-unit would have to be higher to recoup those costs. To make this worse, the demand for this type of item would probably be lower.

[doubloon]

... Maybe "Sons of Guns" will like my idea.

[doubloon]

... i'd have to ask what the aligment tolerance has to be for a micro ...

The bore on at least one current micro can measures ~0.404" diameter and a 9mm pill is ~0.355" diameter which yields a difference of ~0.049" total between the two diameters or ~0.0245" (0.6223mm) on any give "side" of the bullet.

I'm not a machinist or a math major so that's about as far as I can take the tolerances using simple calculations but it doesn't seem to me like it would take all that much tilt to move something a half a millimeter. Since the baffles are certain to be some distance from the muzzle then any movement at the muzzle would be amplified by the distance from the muzzle.

I'm sure one of these lathe braniacs can explain it or refute it.

[LavaRed]

You guys just won't let me retire in peace will you?

I've already nearly exhausted my life savings on R&D, tempt me not with such delicious new ideas!

EDIT: Ok, ok, I give up! Give me a few months and I'll come up with something ok?

[dry]

Hmmmn, i just got a better idea perhaps the micro- supresor could be on the end of the barrel and slide forward off the end of the barell and then fold down underneath for storage, that would keep it aligned while on.

The barrel would be either smooth or splined and have latchs to secure it instead of threads. When drawing the pistol a spring would flip the suppresor up and then pull it back over the end of the barrel and the latches would catch hold it in place. That would allow carrying the pistol without increasing its length at all from the suprresor. Obviously the suppresor shouldnt be longer than the mag is or it wouldnt be compact when folded.

[CThomas]

For a side folding suppressor this is what I pictured all those years ago.
Picture the following.
Can is laying along the right side of the subgun (ex 9mm AR15 with railed handguard) with muzzle of can facing you and is locked into a holder, perhaps a type of C clamp with spring tension to it. No doubt the clamp would have to be solid so the can did not deploy when knocked by accident or under non suppressed firing. The rear of the can has a spring loaded mechanism, picture something like an MP5K stock mechanism. So when you release it from its "C clamp" it swings forward under spring pressure. Now picture the KAC snap on XM9 cans mount or M110 can. It has vertical pins that move up and down. Now instead of moving up and down they move in and out laterally and there are springs that drive the pins inward. The barrel has slots machined into it ie KAC snap on can etc. So the can is being driven forward by the spring mechanism and as it contacts the barrel the mounts pins gets pushed outward and once the pins reach the barrel slots the springs drive the pins inward and the can locks up. Perhaps the barrel has a a slight triangle to it at the front to help move the pins outward. Maybe a 3lug adapter could be modified to do this.
Royalities can be sent to my paypal account.

As far as the OP's can that folds under the barrel or frame of pistol. The frame would have to be long enough to allow lets say a 4" micro can to lay in line with the frame. Don't see it working with anything but a full size pistol perhaps a 1911 etc or MK23.

Oh and when I mentioned telescoping I did not mean a can collapsing onto itself but telsecsoping back over the barrel itself. Again picture a 9mm Ar15 with rail. The can would hide inside the rail and when released it would telescope out and onto a mount. How, I have no idea.

I vote that B uses all that coin he is making from Jailbreaking those cans and puts it into R&D for these ideas ASAP
Need a working proto-type within 2 weeks

[dry]

Oh and when I mentioned telescoping I did not mean a can collapsing onto itself but telsecsoping back over the barrel itself. Again picture a 9mm Ar15 with rail. The can would hide inside the rail and when released it would telescope out and onto a mount. How, I have no idea.

Easy way, enlarge the holes in the baffles from the bullets OD to the barrels OD so it can slide back over the barrel lol.

Harder way, make it so the baffles can slide around in the can.
When you pull the can backwards the exit end of the can pushes the last baffle which pushes the next etc untill the baffles are stacked tight against the muzzle and most of the can is back over the barrel. Each baffle has a pair of pins welded that extend from that baffle backward through holes in the previous baffles and are pushed on by the muzzle end of the can when its pushed forward. The first baffle's pins wouldl be short the last baffle's the longest etc for the right spacing. The pins would also keep the baffles from trying to tip over in the can. There would be a plate on the end of the barrel that the pins would slide through, the end of the pin would be enlarged so that the pins couldnt pull through that plate and the baffles fly forward to the end of the can when firing.

Im not so sure this would work that great

[dry]

As far as the OP's can that folds under the barrel or frame of pistol. The frame would have to be long enough to allow lets say a 4" micro can to lay in line with the frame. Don't see it working with anything but a full size pistol perhaps a 1911 etc or MK23.

I was thinking like this




It could also fold above the pistol instead assuming you dont have a scope up there lol.

[dry]

del

[dry]

OK i have a working idea. Origininally i was thinking the hinge pin simply below the can but now im thinking the hinge pin rides in a slot located below the barrel. That allows it to slide on and off the barrel after rotating. A small spring loaded cam or lever located below the can rotates the can up and then pulls the can back onto the unthreaded barrel. The tip of the barrel has a slight chamfer to make it align easier. Lastly a latch catches the pin at the back of the slot and keeps the suppressor from sliding forward off the unthreaded barrel when firing.


Is that feasable?

edit: The spring powered lever pushes on a specially shaped protrusion/bump on the bottom of the can. the lever initially points down like the can, the lever rotates up and forward, once the can has rotated up and the can and lever reaches horizontal a stop above the can prevents the can from rotating too far but the lever continues rotating up and now backward, pushing the can backwards to slide onto the barrel.

edit2: the lever and protrusion could be on the side of the can instead of below, i think both ways would work.