Is this possible or am I crazy? .223 blowback operated ar

[jnitti1014]

It seems to me the biggest drawback to suppressing the ar-15 is the lack of subsonic ammo that can cycle the bolt. Seeing as how a subsonic .223 round has as much pressure and energy as a.22, how come no one ever tried building a special bolt that was blowback operated, strictly for subsonic?

I would imagine it comes down to liability and lack of commercial ammo, but is it possible?

[lafsnguy]

That's what 22 lr is for. Why reinvent the wheel for something that is already there?

[Emilio]

I have a killer 22 AR that matches the others and seeing no need for expensive subs that searve no real usefulnes. You might think about 300 blackout or 22 upper.

[David Hineline]

So you are basically asking why no one has built something this stupid?

[saltydecimator]

So you are basically asking why no one has built something this stupid?

wow, way to be a dick.

[JohnnyC]

So you are basically asking why no one has built something this stupid?

wow, way to be a dick.

He's always been a dick and always will be. That being said David's been in and around the industry for a long time and I have yet to see him say anything that hasn't been accurate. He may be the guy that you love to hate, but he knows his stuff when it comes to the NFA world, and firearms in general.

[jlwilliams]

A 223 blowback bolt would just be asking for disaster. Someone, somewhere, someday would stick a mag of factory ammo in and lose an eye. Bad plan. Buying a 22lr upper from Spikes or even a Chiappa and shooting suppressed rimfire goodness, good plan.

If you really like loading 223 subsonics, that's cool. Best bet is a bolt action or maybe a Contender or Handi rifle. Way less issues with manual feed.

I hope you don't take all these responses too personally. This is the internet, expect it. So far I don't think anyone has called you a stupid person, but the consensus is that this is a stupid idea. Even Einstein had some bad ides, I'm sure. Having a bad idea doesn't make one a fool. Acting on it after having fair warning would.

Please, don't build this.

[este]

So you are basically asking why no one has built something this stupid?

wow, way to be a dick.

Whatever. That was funny.

[poizzin]

Why reinvent the wheel for something that is already there?

So you are basically asking why no one has built something this stupid?

Soon to be episode of Sons Of Guns!

[Emilio]

So you are basically asking why no one has built something this stupid?

wow, way to be a dick.

Whatever. That was funny.

Bully's are not funny.

[igpoobah]

It's a tough crowd around here. I read lots and post little.

Maybe one day I'll know enough to open my mouth and have it gather no feet.

Until then....

[Crosshair]

Couldn't you just shoot an AR without the cam pin? You'd effectively have a blow-back AR.

[jt526]

Just get a ciener conversion and the lakeside machine spring kit. Tune it to run Aguila SSS and there you have it. Subsonic 22lr 60gr lead chucking machine. It would take just as long to swap out the kit as it would a subsonic bolt and you don't have to buy super-expensive rounds.

I suspect you'd have real trouble with the .223 subsonic bolt reliability. You could probably machine up a delrin bolt carrier, either machine the lugs off the bolt or pin it in place and get something like that running. But I suspect the pressure isn't enough to work the action on a spring heavy enough to get the rounds in and out of the extractor though.

Light bolt plus full mag = not much chance of it stripping a round and chambering it.

[jnitti1014]

Nothing taken personally, thank you for the responses. Wasn't really planning on attempting a build, was more of a hypothetical if it could be done.

[dj_fatstyles]

Why reinvent the wheel for something that is already there?

So you are basically asking why no one has built something this stupid?

Soon to be episode of Sons Of Guns!

anything to get them off the air.

[jaredr]

Couldn't you just shoot an AR without the cam pin? You'd effectively have a blow-back AR.

just make sure you don't mix up your ammo

[TROOPER]

I have a Beretta CX4 Storm in 9mm, and it is a blow-back operated mechanism. The bolt is about as heavy as an unloaded GLOCK 17. For the bolt to withstand the .223, it would need to be even heavier, because it would need to stay in place long enough for the powder to burn off, and the pressure inside of the chamber/barrel to drop significantly, otherwise you'd have major blow-back out of the ejection port.

As was pointed out earlier, this bolt wouldn't work for both full-power and subsonic ammunition. So if its set up for only subsonic ammunition, then whenever the owner/operator puts in some full-power.... disaster.

Making an AR -- or any platform -- that is designed to cycle subsonic .223 just would not work well with full-power .223. The difference in power is so fantastic. Now that said, the gas blocks that are adjustable, and with a light enough bolt, could be made to work between the two cartridges, although the user would still need to adjust the gas setting.

The short answer to your question is that it is a bad idea, with very strong probability of failure as soon as a full-power .223 is fired.

Last, the subsonic .223 is an expensive waste of time. Because of the small size of the .223 bullet, in a subsonic configuration, it is easily eclipsed in performance by virtually every single pistol round.



The 300 BLK solves that problem by using a wider bullet. As a result, it can be increased in weight significantly without becoming ridiculously long and unstable. Therefore it has a wider operating range of practical weights -- and some of those weights are in the subsonic territory. Which means that you don't have to reduce power to get subsonic, which means that reliable cycling is not an issue. You also get to use the AR platform.

[Selectedmarksman]

What trooper said. If you want subsonics out of an AR, you either need to be running .22lr for plinking or 300 BLK for any practical use.