Liberty mystic+ruger 77/357 = 300 black killer

[peytont]

The 300blk is about perfect in an ar but in a bolt gun it's less than ideal. Ejection problems, no cheap heavy bullets, no heavy expanding bullets, and the brass is still a pita to buy or make. The ruger has it all though. Cheap brass, incredible selection of bullets. Getting closer to perfection. Sending my f1 paperwork on Monday so I can chop to 10".

[hunter2]

Do you happen to know the twist for the Ruger?

[RavenArmament]

The 300blk is about perfect in an ar but in a bolt gun it's less than ideal. Ejection problems, no cheap heavy bullets, no heavy expanding bullets, and the brass is still a pita to buy or make. ]

The 300 Whisper has been around for 40 years in bolt actions too without issues. Bullet price is related to materials; heavy bullets require more material and more cost. Subsonic ammunition is a niche within a niche within a niche. Expanding bullets within that tiny niche are on the back burner of that niche. That's the price you pay for ammunition technology that exceeds bullet technology. You won't get what you're looking for in the .357 bullet selection either. BLK brass is easy: trim, size, load.

[weaponsloader]

The 300blk is about perfect in an ar but in a bolt gun it's less than ideal. Ejection problems, no cheap heavy bullets, no heavy expanding bullets, and the brass is still a pita to buy or make. ]

The 300 Whisper has been around for 40 years in bolt actions too without issues. Bullet price is related to materials; heavy bullets require more material and more cost. Subsonic ammunition is a niche within a niche within a niche. Expanding bullets within that tiny niche are on the back burner of that niche. That's the price you pay for ammunition technology that exceeds bullet technology. You won't get what you're looking for in the .357 bullet selection either. BLK brass is easy: trim, size, load.

Very true points and a very nice setup btw. Both of these calibers serve a purpose and have benefits that outweigh the other. However I would still be careful taking the advice of somebody whom is either a murderer or a compulsive liar. Enjoy this one: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum3/view ... t=10+years

[GTFord1]

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum3/view ... t=10+years

That's one sweet trainwreck.

[peytont]

Pretty sure it's a 16. I've got some 230gr. Bullets on the way to see how they do. The 180 hornadys have been good for supers and subs.

[weaponsloader]

http://ruger.com/products/rotaryMagazin ... odels.html

[Chondro]

Hey Very cool man!!!!! I started with the 200's for what reason I'm not sure..Probably thats because what was on hand..then I moved up to the 250's which meant even more powder and more money..(Mind you this if for 350 Remington mag but same diameter bullets)

So finally got the bright idea to try some 180's and then Voila!! Berry's 158's..Nice hollowpoint that is a tackshooter as well as cheap(Hard to see how deep the hollowpoint really is here)..80 bucks per 1000..The other 158 here next to it is around 12-20 per 100..But both meant to open very nicely at 1000fps which they do..I mean explosive!!!!

[WasDustyJacket]

Are you using .38SPL brass or .357 brass in your Ruger?

Did you leave it 18" or chop it to 16" when threading it?

Is there much shoulder for the can to index on?

Given the opportunity, I would sell my 9mm AR pistol and buy one of these....... Of course, I'd have to start reloading again...

[peytont]

Are you using .38SPL brass or .357 brass in your Ruger?

Did you leave it 18" or chop it to 16" when threading it?

Is there much shoulder for the can to index on?

Given the opportunity, I would sell my 9mm AR pistol and buy one of these....... Of course, I'd have to start reloading again...

I used both spl and mag brass. The subs were with spcl brass and the supers were with mag brass. I also shot some factory 38spcls that where hilarious quite!

Its cut to 16" There was enough shoulder at 16 not sure if I had left it long. I did 1/2x28

I've got a dillon so I'll be pumping out the 38/357 ammo once I find a load or two I like.

Thanks for the tip on the berrys bullets. I'm looking for guilt free shooting so the cheaper the better. With the mystic its nice to know I can think about using lead bullets.

The best part about it was the reliabilty, no more empty cases laying on the feed ramps, zero ejection and feeding problems so far.

[82nd airborne]

Ha! good luck getting a 247g bullet with a high ballistic coefficient to go 1000fps out of your 357 and expand nicely.
I love suppressing both the blk and the .357, but the blk has less feeding issues than the rimmed .357.
I think the 77/357 is great, but saying it surpasses the blk by such a margin is a little off.
I enjoy the 180g cast out of the .357 rifles and a good lightweight 9mm can.

[JohnInNH]

Cast bullets for the 38 spl are available from Penn Bullets up to 230 gr.
Penn "Thunderhead"... 4.5 gr of win 231 in a 357 mag or 38 spl case and you are good to go.



http://www.pennbullets.com/38/CAS-38.html

They have a nice 200 grain bullet as well

[peytont]

30$ for 250 thunderheads on the way! I used to only get 50 .308 240gr SMKs for the same amount and the thunderheads are already expanded when they exit the barrel. I should have a range report next weekend.

[82nd airborne]

Don't get me wrong the 357 with 250g cast bullets is a way better short range setup than the Blk and I love it, but never have I been able to stabilize them in a 1:16" twist. Making a 1:12 twist barrel from a raw blank for the puma is a chore.
Awesome setup by the way, I'm diggin it!
I am currently putting a faster twist barrel on a 77/357, 16" with a titanium 9mm can for my dad as a gift. I'm going with ti because he likes everything lightweight and so he can use it on his tikka t3 in .338 federal

[peytont]

Don't get me wrong the 357 with 250g cast bullets is a way better short range setup than the Blk and I love it, but never have I been able to stabilize them in a 1:16" twist. Making a 1:12 twist barrel from a raw blank for the puma is a chore.
Awesome setup by the way, I'm diggin it!
I am currently putting a faster twist barrel on a 77/357, 16" with a titanium 9mm can for my dad as a gift. I'm going with ti because he likes everything lightweight and so he can use it on his tikka t3 in .338 federal

With the short overall length of the 230gr wadcutters a 1x16" should stabilize them, but we shall see.

Your Dad and I would get along well I think. What a cool gift! Another thing I hate about my 300black is the weight, I just had it made to damn heavy and with a steel .308 can on the end its a pig. I figure my ruger set up is: 5.5 for ruger rifle + 1.0 for can + 1.0 scope and ammo = 7.5 lbs total with scope and ammo, I wish it was even less.

What barrel and twist (12)? I could be persuaded to swap the barrel out on mine as well.

[Bendersquint]

Jeez,

I have had a 77/357 backordered for awhile now, still no news.

Anyone know a distributor that has any on hand?

-B

[m1garand30064]

The 300blk is about perfect in an ar but in a bolt gun it's less than ideal. Ejection problems, no cheap heavy bullets, no heavy expanding bullets, and the brass is still a pita to buy or make. ]

The 300 Whisper has been around for 40 years in bolt actions too without issues. Bullet price is related to materials; heavy bullets require more material and more cost. Subsonic ammunition is a niche within a niche within a niche. Expanding bullets within that tiny niche are on the back burner of that niche. That's the price you pay for ammunition technology that exceeds bullet technology. You won't get what you're looking for in the .357 bullet selection either. BLK brass is easy: trim, size, load.

Very true points and a very nice setup btw. Both of these calibers serve a purpose and have benefits that outweigh the other. However I would still be careful taking the advice of somebody whom is either a murderer or a compulsive liar. Enjoy this one: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum3/view ... t=10+years

[jlwilliams]

I'm not going to touch the 357 vs 300blk pissing match. That said (or not said ) the 357 is no doubt one of the most versitile rounds out there. Easy and economical to load and you can get some impressive terminal balistics.

Nice set up with the Ruger.

[82nd airborne]

Don't get me wrong the 357 with 250g cast bullets is a way better short range setup than the Blk and I love it, but never have I been able to stabilize them in a 1:16" twist. Making a 1:12 twist barrel from a raw blank for the puma is a chore.
Awesome setup by the way, I'm diggin it!
I am currently putting a faster twist barrel on a 77/357, 16" with a titanium 9mm can for my dad as a gift. I'm going with ti because he likes everything lightweight and so he can use it on his tikka t3 in .338 federal

With the short overall length of the 230gr wadcutters a 1x16" should stabilize them, but we shall see.

Your Dad and I would get along well I think. What a cool gift! Another thing I hate about my 300black is the weight, I just had it made to damn heavy and with a steel .308 can on the end its a pig. I figure my ruger set up is: 6.5 for ruger rifle + 1.0 for can + 1.0 scope and ammo = 8.5 lbs total with scope and ammo, I wish it was even less.

What barrel and twist (12)? I could be persuaded to swap the barrel out on mine as well.

Here comes an outrageous thread jack, I appologize in advance, my bad!
My father who is my best friend and the most morally upstanding man I have ever met, owns a sawmill. I started working for him at said sawmill at 10 years old. Every friday we would go to the gunshop 3 miles down the road. Every time that $3 an hour added up to enough, I would by a gun that I had been daydreaming about at the mill, instead of working like I should. (I was a lousy helper, but dadgum, a sawmill is a good place to instill a work ethic!) Anyway, my dad being the great man that he is/was, he had a weakness.
That weakness was anything marked .357 magnum. If it was a carbine, the phening would get even worse, and the temptation was too much. Dont even get me started on what would happen if it was a T/C Contender! The addiction was terrible. The .357's piled up. His addiction grew worse, and we had to start going twice a week. Now, being an avid caster, there was no better caliber than the .357, so then he had to buy every .357 mould ever made, mainly old lyman's.
Do you know what its like to have a father with a horrible addiction? What kind of life is a child supposed to have with a father that is dependent on a steady diet of little ultra light carbines? Now look what has become of me, its all his fault, and I have no hope.
The .357 will always mean more to me than the BLK, or any other caliber for that matter, other than the .250 savage. Only because my first centerfire rifle was a .250 that he made for me out of a 96 sweede, with a georgeous walnut stock he made for it from scratch. He gave it to me when I was 9 and I killed my first deer with it that same year. He topped it with a weaver k4 and made it really light, man I love it. Its all banged up now, but I woulndt sell it for any amount of money.
Ahh the .250 savage.........

Wow, that got out of hand fast, sorry about that.
The mould in question is a large truncated cone we found at a garage sale, no Idea of manufacture.
The barrel is one I made out of a Montana blank. Cast bullets will shoot insanely well out of a rediculously smooth barrel, which I have never ever seen from one of the big manufacturers. I am of the wild opinion that only a very very smooth handlapped bore is worthy of the .357, which means making my own barrel.
If I came off as hating on the .357 in my original post, shame on me! Ill slap my momma in the mouth.

If anyone is wondering "Why is he over here making his old man guns when Ive been waiting my barrel for ever? Aaron is slower than Christmas!" (That part is true, I am slow, and generally never make a lead time that I quote)
Here is the scoop. Almost every barrel of the 1000+ we have sold, has been chambered on a manual lathe by my Dad. He generally refuses payment. I just now figured out why. He knows that I know he will tear up a check. He also knows that I wont let someone work for me and go unpaid, because he raised me that way. So, my only option is to give him a plethera of guns. Now, mom cant gripe at him because technically he didnt spend any money on it, it was a gift!

[mtelkman]

Don't get me wrong the 357 with 250g cast bullets is a way better short range setup than the Blk and I love it, but never have I been able to stabilize them in a 1:16" twist. Making a 1:12 twist barrel from a raw blank for the puma is a chore.
Awesome setup by the way, I'm diggin it!
I am currently putting a faster twist barrel on a 77/357, 16" with a titanium 9mm can for my dad as a gift. I'm going with ti because he likes everything lightweight and so he can use it on his tikka t3 in .338 federal

With the short overall length of the 230gr wadcutters a 1x16" should stabilize them, but we shall see.

Your Dad and I would get along well I think. What a cool gift! Another thing I hate about my 300black is the weight, I just had it made to damn heavy and with a steel .308 can on the end its a pig. I figure my ruger set up is: 6.5 for ruger rifle + 1.0 for can + 1.0 scope and ammo = 8.5 lbs total with scope and ammo, I wish it was even less.

What barrel and twist (12)? I could be persuaded to swap the barrel out on mine as well.

Please keep everyone updated on the results of stabilization with the 230gr wadcutters. I want to try some out n my Marlin lever action 38/357 threaded for my Trident9. It is also a 1 in 16 twist.

[mtelkman]

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum3/view ... t=10+years

That's one sweet trainwreck.

[mikeone]

TAG

Im interested to see how this project goes. The 230s should stabilize in your barrel, Ive been shooting/playing with these bullets for years. I cast my own with a Magma Engineering mold, and I think it's the same Penn uses.

These bullets will stabilize in a 1-7/8in 642 snubby 1-16.5 twist
and every other revolver or rifle I have shot them through. But your results may vary due to powder used. AA#9 has always been good to go for me.

Another thing Im interested to see is, if they will fit in the magazine if at all. Due to oal restriction and the radius on the mag for the ogive of the bullet ( if the mags are designed similar to the 77/44)

I managed to get 400gr (not full wadcutter) cast bullets to feed and shoot through my new production 77/44, I hope you guys are successful with this smaller one!!

[peytont]

Finally my bullets arrived. 230gr penn wadcutters in front of 4.5gr W231, coal = 1.590" in nickel plated 357 federal brass. I'll be shooting them this weekend to check for speed, stability and accuracy. Surprisingly they feed from the mag if you work the bolt quick. Interestingly the bullets loaded to this COAL did not work with R&P brass, the R&P cases were to thick and the bulge from the bullet would prevent chambering.

[JohnInNH]

You may want to slightly crimp your brass. Looks like they are still slightly bellmouthed. That will cause feeding problems.

I shoot a lot of these in my 357 maximum at 1030 or so fps. They hit HARD!

[daviscustom]

This looks interesting...I have an H&R Ultra in .357max that I have been trying to decide what to do with. It sounds like firecrackers in a pipe when I shoot 38 spec. through it....and the 9mm can I've been considering for my next build would be perfect for it!

John beat me to the crimp recommendation that looks like a good reason for a round not to chamber easily