JohnInNH wrote:Aren't more deer taken with a 30-30 than any other round?
I find for most NE hunting (under 100 yards) I down load my 308 and use 180 gr soft points with good reliable expansion .. A smoking 150 or 130 gr bullet is going to mess up a lot of meat with the explosive expansion, and shock.
I am a little put off by the taking of game with the 300 Blk it is marginal imho
At least use a .357 bore, better yet a 44 caliber if you are going to hunt with subs.
Can you do it. Will it have clean kills? Sure but it will also have a better chance of NOT doing the job as well as a different pick.
If it was not a new "cool" trend setting AR caliber would it be popular? I doubt it. Who would pick a 30 cal rifle with a bunch LESS power than a 30-30 for hunting medium size game?
Shot placement and bow hunting range makes up for it's lack of power and flat shooting.
The 357 mag is really about the same, and many an artical has been written about it being marginal. Just like the anti pistol hunting folks Can your 357 revolver take a deer? Sure can So can a 22. But there are laws against that, and for good reason.
I am marginal in my feelings about using a round primarly designed as an anti personal CQB round for taking game. This is marketing at it's finest.
Since we know that a non expanding bullet is less than adiquate they can sell $1 specialty bullets that do expand making the less than marginal 220 loads now adiquate.
We made advancements in firearms and ammunition to what now have to go backwards? Who would have thought there would be a market for a "hunting" 30 caliber bullet for use on deer and hogs that needed to perform at 1000 fps!
Looking at the face of it is is absurd. If it was about just hunting it would NOT be the BLK if it was about silenced hunting it would be a 357 gremlen, or some other fatter custom.. if in an AR.. in a regular rifle the. 44 spl is FAR superior for these applications. A 240 or even a 300 gr bullet is still subsonic and will work a lot better. It has for close to a century with improvements (44 mag) along the way.
I have a 300 blk and it,s a sweet little rifle, but for good quick humaine kills i feel my 44 does a much better job. A 45 osprey on my 44 is darn quiet. My favorite is still the heavy bullet 357 bore. Quieter than the 45 or 44, as accurate as the blk, and a LOT more knock down/killing power.
But it's not in a cool black 10+ round mag fed host.
I applaude Robert for making the BLK work as well'as'it does, the custom bullets, and quality brass he has helpet to make available.
We will hear a lot of sucess stories of kills with the blk, but will people also be honest and post the bad shots/wounded experiences? It happens with all rounds ..it will happen a lot more with the blk with subs for hunting.
With shot placement being so crytical range determination is going to be key. A range finder and a lot of practice will help reduce the failed shots and wounded animals. It is more important than ever to be responsible when taking shots when taking game with subs of this small a bore.
There are a lot of misconceptions when it comes to hunting and having "enough gun" to do the job on a given animal. As for 30-30 Winchester being used to kill more deer than other rounds...it's undoubtedly 22LR/22Mag as that is the choice of most poachers who kill 3-5 times the number of deer per year that most hunter kill. Ask any game warden/wildlife officer.
There are several inherent problems with larger bore pills such as 357/44/45. First of all they require a different gun. With 300BLK, I can shoot supersonic or subsonic rounds simply by changing magazines all on a platform that I am familiar with (the AR platform). I can use ONE silencer for supersonic or subsonic PLUS I can use that same silencer on 556 or 762 rifles with the use of an adapter. The problem with larger bore stuff is its super difficult to get the level of sound reduction I want AND STILL HAVE ACCURACY. I have tested the 44 integrals, and the 9mm and 45 camp carbines of days gone by...they are overly heavy, provide unsatisfactory accuracy, in some cases require special ammo that isn't readily available. With 300BLK, I can buy factory ammo over the counter that works and is quiet. 300BLK is actually quiet, the rounds are effective at killing, and they are way more accurate than any larger bore stuff I have tested and worked with. Perhaps 1-2" groups at 50 yards works, for some, but not me. I get 1" at 100 with 300BLK Subsonic and that is far better than the cross section of larger bore stuff.
As for "enough gun"...Anyone can argue that anything round X will do round Y will do better...this is not a convincing argument. 22LR will kill a deer quite well, I have seen it happen on dozens of occasions. I am not advocating people do this, and its illegal to hunt deer with a 22LR/22Mag. I am simply stating facts. If you compare a 22LR to a 30-06 the numbers are insanely different. A 40 grain 22LR round flying at 1000fps has a paltry 88.8 foot pounds of energy compared to over 2600 for a 30-06 150 grain round at 2800fps. Both will kill a deer if they hit a vital organ. Neither will kill a deer if they go through an area with no vitals. Yes, I have seen many deer shot with 30-06 that were never recovered regardless of finding lots of blood. A bullet only needs to destroy/incapacitate a vital organ to be effective. Funny how archers never have problems killing truckloads of deer with a projectile that is moving at less than 1/3 of the speed of a subsonic 300BLK...but we never see people saying those archers should use a ballista instead cause a ballista will do the job better.
There are a lot of factors to consider when choosing a hunting platform and I think 300BLK is an excellent option for delivering a heavy projectile into a deer with excellent sound reduction, superb accuracy and plenty of killing power. Again, shot placement is KEY.
