Got a Form 1 / 4 pending? Call your CongressPerson

[garandman]

I'm fed up with the ATF.

I propose EVERYONE who has a reasonable hope of their CongressPerson helping them call their Reps in Washington, and ask for their assistance in getting ATF up off their asses, and get in gear.

It is RIDICULOUS that what NICS does in 6 minutes takes ATF six MONTHS - as I know for a fact their are FAR fewer NFA items than Title 1 guns. Time to bring NFA out of the 1934 backward, ancient processes and into the 21st century..

Yeah....I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore.

[-k-]

Are you asking for funding for more examiners or infrastructure or both? I think we need to know more about what the problem is before it can be fixed.

I agree the wait times would not be acceptable for title I sales, and it would hurt sales.

I would suggest the approach that excessive wait times are impeding commerce and the collection of taxes.

[garandman]

Are you asking for funding for more examiners or infrastructure or both? I think we need to know more about what the problem is before it can be fixed.

.

My belief is that when the light get shined into the dark crevasses of gov't, the cockroaches scatter.

My 20+ years in the business world has taught me that people merely knowing someone is looking over their shoulder "magically" fixes problems that are nearly impossible to define.

Seen it happen countless times. Have no reason to believe this will be any different, and also beleive we should avoid the paralysis of analysis.

We've simply gotta STOP accepting the status quo.

[garandman]

I agree the wait times would not be acceptable for title I sales, and it would hurt sales.

I would suggest the approach that excessive wait times are impeding commerce and the collection of taxes.

I would agree both of these are viable threads of argumentation for our side.

Improving this process will improve commerce and gov't revenue collection.

Am I against more gov't revenue collection? Yes. Am I willing to use that argument to get what I want? Definitely.

[-k-]

My 20+ years in the business world has taught me that people merely knowing someone is looking over their shoulder "magically" fixes problems that are nearly impossible to define.

But before you go claiming someone is sitting around on their hands it would be good to know the volume over the last 5-10 years and the number of position they have asked for based on those numbers going up.

[garandman]

But before you go claiming someone is sitting around on their hands it would be good to know the volume over the last 5-10 years and the number of position they have asked for based on those numbers going up.

You are correct. But I don't plan to claim that (it is merely a suspicion)

I'm simply gonna lay out the problem. I don't care what solution my Congressman arrives at. (As close as ATF plays it to the vest, they aren't going to allow you and me to know enuf about their operations to propose an implementation plan to fix their malfunction.)

My point is the solution happens BECAUSE the ATF knows someone is looking over their shoulder - without us even having to define the problem. And with the Fast and Furious scandal still looming, ATF is unusually motivated to justify their existence.

I beleive we have a unique window of opportunity here.

[garandman]

Well, I've made initial contact. Called the local office, emailed the Washington office. Local office said FBI background checks can take several months (they get about 1K per day, apparently....and no doubt NFA gets lowest priority)

Its a beginning.

Would love to see lots of you make similar contacts, and report your findings back here.

[Bendersquint]

Well, I've made initial contact. Called the local office, emailed the Washington office. Local office said FBI background checks can take several months (they get about 1K per day, apparently....and no doubt NFA gets lowest priority)

Its a beginning.

Would love to see lots of you make similar contacts, and report your findings back here.

If enough people get other Governmental entities involved I fear the solution the ATF comes up with the speed the process up will be an increase the transfer tax. You mention getting NFA out of 1934, we don't want it brought to 2011/2. inflation will kill the NFA world for everything except hi end machineguns.

Is that something we really want to see if they will do it?

Faster turnaround means more people involved, means more revenue needed and where is that revenue going to come from? An increase in the transfer tax.

Just my .02

-B

[Bendersquint]

...and no doubt NFA gets lowest priority)

FWIW, the FBI processes background checks on a first come first serve basis, only certain investigation have priority and can hop the line.

-B

[kernelkrink]

"FBI background check", are we talking a full blown investigation where agents actually talk to your neighbors and 3rd grade teacher? Or are we talking a simple records check where somebody punches your name and SSN into a computer and 3 seconds later your entire arrest and conviction record (if there is one) comes up on the monitor? I would think the latter, in which case a simple sharing of the database (NCIC? My local PD uses it everyday!) with ATF would allow them to do the background check in less than a minute per person, assuming an average typing speed...... Verifying your identity via prints is also an automated computer system, scan them in and the computer does the rest. Figure 15 minutes per app if things were streamlined.

[srt-4_uk]

"FBI background check", are we talking a full blown investigation where agents actually talk to your neighbors and 3rd grade teacher? Or are we talking a simple records check where somebody punches your name and SSN into a computer and 3 seconds later your entire arrest and conviction record (if there is one) comes up on the monitor? I would think the latter, in which case a simple sharing of the database (NCIC? My local PD uses it everyday!) with ATF would allow them to do the background check in less than a minute per person, assuming an average typing speed...... Verifying your identity via prints is also an automated computer system, scan them in and the computer does the rest. Figure 15 minutes per app if things were streamlined.

Ever see this chart?
http://www.silencerco.com/blog/wp-conte ... _white.jpg

Now multiply that by 15min per form and you will see why it takes so long.

[garandman]

If enough people get other Governmental entities involved I fear the solution the ATF comes up with the speed the process up will be an increase the transfer tax. Just my .02

-B

Its a real risk. Its a risk I mentioned myself on these Whitehouse petition drives that were all teh rage a month ago.

But anything worth accomplishing has the risk of unintended consequences.

Is the answer to do nothing?

For myself, I answer resolutely "No." I realize others may disagree, and I respect that.

But I'm done with "doing nothing."

[garandman]

"FBI background check", are we talking a full blown investigation where agents actually talk to your neighbors and 3rd grade teacher? Or are we talking a simple records check where somebody punches your name and SSN into a computer and 3 seconds later your entire arrest and conviction record (if there is one) comes up on the monitor? I would think the latter, in which case a simple sharing of the database (NCIC? My local PD uses it everyday!) with ATF would allow them to do the background check in less than a minute per person, assuming an average typing speed...... Verifying your identity via prints is also an automated computer system, scan them in and the computer does the rest. Figure 15 minutes per app if things were streamlined.

The individual at my local Reps office, who claimed extensive familiarity with FBI background checks indicated they were more along the lines of the former - at least in the sense that they require several months time.

[Bendersquint]

If enough people get other Governmental entities involved I fear the solution the ATF comes up with the speed the process up will be an increase the transfer tax. Just my .02

-B

Its a real risk. Its a risk I mentioned myself on these Whitehouse petition drives that were all teh rage a month ago.

But anything worth accomplishing has the risk of unintended consequences.

Is the answer to do nothing?

For myself, I answer resolutely "No." I realize others may disagree, and I respect that.

But I'm done with "doing nothing."

Yes it is a risk, a risk I think we shouldn't take if we enjoy these devices.

If there is enough pushing we could get a new tax stamp value and I am sure they will take the non-inflated $200 and update it to compensate for the sheer number of employees both at ATF and FBI to speed this process up.

Tax stamp in 1934 was $200
Adjusted for inflation of approx $3100!

Is that worth the risk? I say no, that will effectively eliminate, SBR, SBR, and Silencer sales or Form1's.

Only ones that would be worthwhile would be MG's because of their extreme value. I wouldn't spend $400 on a .22lr can with a 3K tax.

This is better left the way it is and just accept the fact that it takes time to get NFA items. My first NFA item took 14 months to transfer. I am thrilled with the turn around nowadays.


-B

[Cj Two A]

I called my congressman during the long wait for the last suppressor.. I got the Form 4 back before I got a call back. I guess I don't own a company that donates to his campaign fund.

[Bendersquint]

I called my congressman during the long wait for the last suppressor.. I got the Form 4 back before I got a call back. I guess I don't own a company that donates to his campaign fund.

You are probably right but who knows maybe he realized that you can't move people to the front of the line to get a form processed without pissing every other person off thats already been waiting, potentially other constituents. Afterall it isn't a problem, its just taking longer than you think it should take to get processed. Considering the number of employees and all that they have to do its pretty quick for turnaround.

I know i am not ready for a tax stamp increase due to the demand for more employees. If anything they should have an express line that if you want to pay $500 your form will be processed by a couple specific examiners that move it quicker l ike a month to 2 month turnaround. A $300 expedite fee.

Who knows perhaps the tax stamp won't change but they will enact a Form3 transfer tax per item, which will drive prices up as well.

I see nothing but bad that can come from this.

-B

[morris]

I called my congressman in WA and they emailed me a signed copy of the form 4 in about a week after my call, now I am waiting for the post office to deliver the original to my dealer.

[Emilio]

If you needing something done quickly, don't ask the Gov.

They should give UPIN numbers to people's who already have cans and do a quick check on anything happen since then. Would save much time but NOOOOOOOO!

They are dumb asses!

[Emilio]

I called my congressman in WA and they emailed me a signed copy of the form 4 in about a week after my call, now I am waiting for the post office to deliver the original to my dealer.

What was your pending date? To thinking you jump ahead of others for whining would be wrong no?

[rockman96]

I called my congressman in WA and they emailed me a signed copy of the form 4 in about a week after my call, now I am waiting for the post office to deliver the original to my dealer.

Maybe you could call your congressman and get him to light a fire under the USPS's ass.

[garandman]

[This is better left the way it is and just accept the fact that it takes time to get NFA items. My first NFA item took 14 months to transfer. I am thrilled with the turn around nowadays.


-B

I respect your view. I completely disagree.

Should we not ask for reductions in our effective income tax rate because Congress MIGHT decide to raise taxes instead? Should we not press forward on the expansion of CCW freedoms because state / Federal legislatures MIGHT decide to decrease freedoms? Your logic doesn't hold.

I understand you have a business to run. I understand an increase on the $200 fee poses serious threats to your livelihood. I understand "leaving it as is" is safest for you.

I currently have an MK760 in transfer that every indication is it will take 10 - 12 months before I take possession. (Out of state Form 4 individual transfer = 2x transfers)

I don't see moving from 14 months to 12 as anything to be "thrilled" about.

As I've indicated, I don't expect you to adopt my approach of pushing this issue. That's fine. Should I be successful, I won't begrudge you benefitting from my labors. Should your "worst case scenario" develop, I'll accept any blame you wish to heap upon me.

That's why our FOunding Fathers called the pusuit of liberty an "animating contest." NEVER in human history has the pursuit of liberty been WITHOUT an associated risk.

[garandman]

What was your pending date? To thinking you jump ahead of others for whining would be wrong no?

No.

In my view, to continue to tolerate the abuse of liberty by ATF would be wrong. I accept neither Operation Fast and Furious, nor these RIDICULOUS wait times, for what at MOST should be a 2 month wait (of course ignoring the fact the Second Amendment disallows ATF's infringement of our rights for ANY length of time)

Your mileage may vary.

[ScorpioMk]

Even if it takes them an hour per stamp which would be ridiculous, thats 200 an hour. Is it costing the gov that much to do the work? It would be nice to see what budget our stamp money gets dumped into and where it all goes. I also think its absolutely unacceptable to have to wait 4-5 months for them to look at my trust and approve it.

[garandman]

Even if it takes them an hour per stamp which would be ridiculous, thats 200 an hour. Is it costing the gov that much to do the work? It would be nice to see what budget our stamp money gets dumped into and where it all goes. I also think its absolutely unacceptable to have to wait 4-5 months for them to look at my trust and approve it.

Please call your Congress Creature and let him/her know that (provided he/she isn't a rabid anti gun nut)

[martineta]

"FBI background check", are we talking a full blown investigation where agents actually talk to your neighbors and 3rd grade teacher? Or are we talking a simple records check where somebody punches your name and SSN into a computer and 3 seconds later your entire arrest and conviction record (if there is one) comes up on the monitor? I would think the latter, in which case a simple sharing of the database (NCIC? My local PD uses it everyday!) with ATF would allow them to do the background check in less than a minute per person, assuming an average typing speed...... Verifying your identity via prints is also an automated computer system, scan them in and the computer does the rest. Figure 15 minutes per app if things were streamlined.

The individual at my local Reps office, who claimed extensive familiarity with FBI background checks indicated they were more along the lines of the former - at least in the sense that they require several months time.

I had to get an FBI background check as a requirement for Uruguayan Residency last July. Took the FBI all of 2 weeks. The problem is not the FBI sitting on their hands.