Self Defense + NFA Question

General silencer discussion. If you want to talk about a specific silenced rifle or pistol, it is best to do that in the rifle or pistol section for that brand.

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elcapitan1
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Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by elcapitan1 »

First off, I have been readiing and picking up allot of information this site, and thanks for that . One thing that has wondering though, I read allot of Post about people setting up their "Home Defense " guns, or discussing concealed carry with suppressors. My question is wouldn't you get into trouble for using an NFA item even in a self defense situation ?
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Ctaylor
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by Ctaylor »

As far as I know, no. As long as the NFA item is legally yours they can't charge you with anything because you used an NFA item in a self-defense situation.
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Wahnsinn
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by Wahnsinn »

Ideally/theoretically you shouldn't, firearm is a firearm. Of course in today's world, you're going to lose that gun and silencer for a pretty decent amount of time as evidence, etc. Then in court (where you may end up, not because of the silencer, but just because you killed somebody whether in defense or not) the lawyer will try to paint you as some kind of a killer/hitman for having a silencer on your gun.

So it's kind of a "use at your own risk" thing.
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elcapitan1
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by elcapitan1 »

Yeah , I can see where there could be so many differant scenarios and self defense situations, were it might be your last line of defense. But to me, it would seem like keeping your suppressed pistol in the night stand , or walking around Wal-mart with an SBR because you have CCW would be a big No, No.
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WooD
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by WooD »

As far as self defense, I'll just stick with my old school 5 shot 357 that I carry, and a good old 18" 12 gauge pump thats leaning against the headboard of my bed.

The NFA stuff stays in the safe when not in use.
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DesertRat
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by DesertRat »

Why would keeping a suppressed pistol on the nightstand be a big no no?

There is nothing in the law that says that.

I'm sure that there are people that worry about how it would "look" if they were to use an NFA weapon for defense, but I'm not one of them.

If I were ever forced to defend myself and my family, I would use the most effective and efficient weapon available to me. Job one is surviving the encounter. By definition, you are talking about a life or death scenario. I'll save my life and worry about appearances later.

Admittedly, geography probably plays a part in this decision. I live in Montana. We are very pro self defense here. Might be a different story in a place like Massachusetts.
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elcapitan1
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by elcapitan1 »

That's why I posted the question. I always thought NFA items were to be stored in a safe and not accessible. And yes I know you could lock it in your night stand, just mainly curious about the legality of using them for self defense.
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Libertarian_Geek
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by Libertarian_Geek »

Simple logistics.

My NFA stuff stays in the safe due to expense. I'd have to lock it up when I left home, and unlock it when I return (too much hassle.) Why would I want to leave something out and available to a thief that could be used against me when I return home?

Spare car keys go in the safe for the same reason. I don't want to make the thief's life any easier. If you think that you'll regularly open the safe and lock it on every trip away from home, then you're fooling yourself.

Legalities:
I can only speculate. There are plenty of things that you have every right to do, and yet they can be used against you in court. As far as silencers go for home defense... I don't know of any law that expressly prohibits NFA items for home defense. Instead, it falls into the same realm as talking to the police after the self defense event. Less is better. I believe that the cons outweigh the pros on this (but only slightly.) I wish it weren't so. But if I had my wishes, then home defense would consist of coordinating a team of large breasted curvy women to defend my perfect garden against slow moving, tasty animals including pig, cow, salmon, and tuna. The fish would come with prepared wasabi and ginger on the side.
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DesertRat
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by DesertRat »

elcapitan1 wrote:That's why I posted the question. I always thought NFA items were to be stored in a safe and not accessible. And yes I know you could lock it in your night stand, just mainly curious about the legality of using them for self defense.
I apologize if my response came off as harsh. That was not my intention.

I think that your confusion might have come from discussions about not having an NFA item accessible to others in your absence. You shouldn't leave your suppressed pistol/SBR/whatever on the nightstand while you're at work and your roommate or Brother in Law is at the house. If no one else has a key to your house, you can leave it pretty much wherever you want (I wouldn't).

While it is in your possession there is no requirement for it to be stored or inaccessible.

For the record my suppressed SBR is locked in a safe when I am not at home.
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by 700PSS »

With NFA, an incident inside your home is much less likely to be scrutinized than an incident outside your home.
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elcapitan1
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by elcapitan1 »

No, problem. I expected to get differant views and opinions. One of the reasons I also had the question is because myself, and most people I know insert in the " Reason for purchase" box is collectible or investment purposes on the form 4. I may have stated that wrong, but I've never heard of anyone using " For Self Defense".
Again, I am not trying to Post this as my opinion, I am trying to find out if it is legal. Because if I CAN use them for self Defense purposes, I will . I have a CCW in Texas , and I might would carry a SBS or can at certain times if I thought it were legal for me to do so.

And by the way , nice Avatar ! I can't seem to get anything to compress small enough .
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by shocknawe »

elcapitan1 wrote:One of the reasons I also had the question is because myself, and most people I know insert in the " Reason for purchase" box is collectible or investment purposes on the form 4. I may have stated that wrong, but I've never heard of anyone using " For Self Defense".
I believe most use the catch all of "all legal purposes" or something to that effect.
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by Emilio »

They are long for carry but fine for home and you can still hear if others are still in the house after taking a shot. If worried about legal issues, any good lawyer can point out the good reasons for having it. ( like hearing damage to you and family)

Smart people lock up their guns when they leave the house anyways So what does that have to do with anything! :roll:
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Emilio
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by Emilio »

shocknawe wrote:
elcapitan1 wrote:One of the reasons I also had the question is because myself, and most people I know insert in the " Reason for purchase" box is collectible or investment purposes on the form 4. I may have stated that wrong, but I've never heard of anyone using " For Self Defense".
I believe most use the catch all of "all legal purposes" or something to that effect.
Yes, they are not an investment. :lol: the question is BS anyway.
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elcapitan1
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by elcapitan1 »

If it's BS to you don't answer it !
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Emilio
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by Emilio »

elcapitan1 wrote:If it's BS to you don't answer it !
Do you get asked on a 4473 what you are buying the "firearm" for?
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elcapitan1
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by elcapitan1 »

Well Sir, I was referring to the reasonble necessity question on the form 4. Maybe I didn't state my question properlly. I was just asking what I thought was a valid question on the legalities of NFA items used in self defense and conceal carry. No need to be disrespectful.
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by WooD »

Emilio wrote:
shocknawe wrote:
elcapitan1 wrote:One of the reasons I also had the question is because myself, and most people I know insert in the " Reason for purchase" box is collectible or investment purposes on the form 4. I may have stated that wrong, but I've never heard of anyone using " For Self Defense".
I believe most use the catch all of "all legal purposes" or something to that effect.
Yes, they are not an investment. :lol: the question is BS anyway.
I always want to put "Because it's cool" on that part of the form.
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Emilio
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by Emilio »

elcapitan1 wrote:Well Sir, I was referring to the reasonble necessity question on the form 4. Maybe I didn't state my question properlly. I was just asking what I thought was a valid question on the legalities of NFA items used in self defense and conceal carry. No need to be disrespectful.
I was saying the question on the form is BS ( not yours ) :D

The answer is simply write " lawful purposes". This is the main streams answer and as long as you stay within the law (including self defense) you have nothing to worry.
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Emilio
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by Emilio »

WooD wrote:
I always want to put "Because it's cool" on that part of the form.
Or "because that's how I roll " or "none of your damn business". :D
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by jlwilliams »

Whenever this comes up it brings out heatedly differing opinions.

The "all lawful purposes" type answer is the way to go an a document like a form 1 or 4.

There was a case where a guy was attacked by armed, agressive, determined attackers (patched motorcycle gang) on his way back from a day at the range. He evaded and avoided as best he could but push did indeed come to shove and he defended his life at the expense of one of his attacker's life with the only means he had at hand. His registered AC556. That happened quite a while back. Maybe '80s. Anyway, he was tried and aquitted of murder and afterward is convinced that had he defended himself with an Elmer Fudd style shotgun it never would have come to trial. He probably wouldn't have eveb been arrestet or charged with any crime given the totality of the facts. The prosecutor got a huge hard on over the machine gun. Right up to outbursts in court.

The story has been put online in great detail. It's worth a quick Google stalk.

Legal NFA shouldn't be an issue, but the decision to prosecute or not is made by a prosecutor. A fallable human who may or may not have an attitude toward exotic firearms. Legally, you defend yourself in a moral and lawful manner that should be that. All the same, My opinion is that I am going to be better off after the fact if I use only the title 1 guns that a DA or a potential juror may be familliar with and if I do have to defend myself I should call 9-1-1 then my lawyer right away.
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by aevert »

jlwilliams wrote:
There was a case where a guy was attacked by armed, agressive, determined attackers (patched motorcycle gang) on his way back from a day at the range. He evaded and avoided as best he could but push did indeed come to shove and he defended his life at the expense of one of his attacker's life with the only means he had at hand. His registered AC556. That happened quite a while back. Maybe '80s. Anyway, he was tried and aquitted of murder and afterward is convinced that had he defended himself with an Elmer Fudd style shotgun it never would have come to trial. He probably wouldn't have eveb been arrestet or charged with any crime given the totality of the facts. The prosecutor got a huge hard on over the machine gun. Right up to outbursts in court.

The story has been put online in great detail. It's worth a quick Google stalk.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... 112685749/
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by PTK »

Is present-day America like the America back in 1984? I don't carry NFA for self defense, but I sure as hell have them around the house for HD. Why else would I have any NFA items like SBS? They're FOR self-defense in a building, better maneuvering, etc. :)
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by lilfuzzybuny »

something that ive noticed no one thinks of is "walking fingers" syndrome. well lets say you deffend yourself and everything turns out for the better part of your side and aquitted(yada yada yada) now you go to the police department to pick up your firearms and nfa items, only to find out they've gone missing or lost inventory paperwork.

also im not absolutely sure (not legal advise of anykind) but safes in a home may or may not require a warrent to be searched depending on the place you live. if they dont well if you get a good one itll take a while to get open anyway
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Re: Self Defense + NFA Question

Post by st33ve0 »

Yeah, in theory you should be ok. Hell in TN by the letter of the law I can use a short barreled belt fed MG with a can on it and as long as it's all legal and in my name and the shoot is justified then I'm fine, but I worry about cases like Gary Fadden where he was completely justified and still got dicked over by the judicial system.
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