My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

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Deja vu
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My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by Deja vu »

I have recently bought my first suppressor. The gun I am putting it on is my marlin 45/70. The reason I picked this gun is because it is my hunting rifle. It is the only gun I ever shoot with out hearing protection on. I live in Idaho so it is legal to hunt with a suppressor!

I mostly will be shooting fairly hot ammo, 325 grains 2000 FPS. Buy I am working on some "fun" ammo just to mess around with. I have a load of 500 grain Hornady bullet moving at 1000-1040FPS. http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.458-500-gr-DGS/ The reson I picked these bullets is I am told that I should probably use jacketed bullets, I wanted 500 grain bullets and a local gun store recently went out of business and was selling these for $12.00 a box so I bought 650 of them

I dont expect this gun to be supper quiet What I do want is a gun that does not make my ears ring after 1 round.

My main question is this. While the 1 in 20 barrel twist rate is great for hunting with lighter bullets I am starting to have doubts it will work with my 500 grain bullets moving slow. What I am mostly afraid of is a baffle strike. I am not looking for great accuracy I just want to keep my new suppressor safe. Will the 1 in 20 keep the bullet stable long enough to make it out of the suppressor?

p.s. the suppressor is still being built but is due in about a week. When my FFL gets it ill try to post some pictures online, its some thing to do while I wait for the chief LEO to sign off and then wait 6-8 more months for the feds to say its ok. The brand was not my first choice or even my second choice but out of about 12 places I contacted they where the only ones to respond to my e-mail and willing to make the suppressor for less than $1500.00 (my wife set the $ limit) The Brand is AWC and the suppressor is the thunder trap. I know its no longer top of the line but at least they seemed interested in taking the job.

Sorry this is so long I am new to the forums and to Silencers in general.
hunter2
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by hunter2 »

Work up or down on all of your loads with the suppressor OFF until you get the speed you want and look for keyholing on your targets. My rule of thumb - if there is any indication of bullet canting at 50 yds the suppressor does not go on! It will not sound like a 300 blk. but it should be ok.
Deja vu
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by Deja vu »

My hunting load will stay the same, I have used it for 3 years now and have taken 3 deer 1 black bear and 1 elk with it.

The subsonic load is still in the air a bit, I have it moving slow enough but I am willing to go to lighter bullets if these are not stabilizing. On the Marlin forums a guy uses 405 grain bullets and says it works well but says he has never tried it with 500 grain bullets.
johndoe3
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by johndoe3 »

Using the Miller Stability calculator will give you a good indication of stability. What you need is an accurate measurement of bullet length in order to calculate stability accurately. The Miller Stability calculator is free at the JBM website.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

I used 1.380" for bullet length from Quickload, 1000 fps, .458 bullet, 500gr. I used worst case temperature of 0F (stability is higher as temperature goes up), and since I don't know your altitude in Idaho, I used 1000 ft, so I put in 28.86 for pressure for 1000' (2000' would be 27.82).

The stability for the above conditions is 1.758.
(1.3 to 1.5 stability is marginal, while 1.5 and above stability should be good to go).

As stated above, shooting a few without the suppressor to check for keyholing is a prudent course of action before putting your suppressor on.
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Bendersquint
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by Bendersquint »

Deja vu wrote:I have recently bought my first suppressor. The gun I am putting it on is my marlin 45/70. The reason I picked this gun is because it is my hunting rifle. It is the only gun I ever shoot with out hearing protection on. I live in Idaho so it is legal to hunt with a suppressor!

I mostly will be shooting fairly hot ammo, 325 grains 2000 FPS. Buy I am working on some "fun" ammo just to mess around with. I have a load of 500 grain Hornady bullet moving at 1000-1040FPS. http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.458-500-gr-DGS/ The reson I picked these bullets is I am told that I should probably use jacketed bullets, I wanted 500 grain bullets and a local gun store recently went out of business and was selling these for $12.00 a box so I bought 650 of them

I dont expect this gun to be supper quiet What I do want is a gun that does not make my ears ring after 1 round.

My main question is this. While the 1 in 20 barrel twist rate is great for hunting with lighter bullets I am starting to have doubts it will work with my 500 grain bullets moving slow. What I am mostly afraid of is a baffle strike. I am not looking for great accuracy I just want to keep my new suppressor safe. Will the 1 in 20 keep the bullet stable long enough to make it out of the suppressor?

p.s. the suppressor is still being built but is due in about a week. When my FFL gets it ill try to post some pictures online, its some thing to do while I wait for the chief LEO to sign off and then wait 6-8 more months for the feds to say its ok. The brand was not my first choice or even my second choice but out of about 12 places I contacted they where the only ones to respond to my e-mail and willing to make the suppressor for less than $1500.00 (my wife set the $ limit) The Brand is AWC and the suppressor is the thunder trap. I know its no longer top of the line but at least they seemed interested in taking the job.

Sorry this is so long I am new to the forums and to Silencers in general.
Did you contact us about the custom build?
Deja vu
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by Deja vu »

Did you contact us about the custom build?
Im sorry I don't think I did. I mostly just did a google search on silencers and took the top ones that poped up. The original company I wanted was Gem Tech because they are local to me (Idaho) but they did not respond to my emails. AWC responded in a few days so I went with them.

I got to the point I was frustrated (I still am a little) and decided to go with ones that responded to me. The friendliest one was AAC but at the time of my email (I saved it) they said they did not make suppressors in that caliber and they recommended Liberty and Thunder Beast. Well Liberty and Thunder Beast never got back to me... I also sent e-mails to multiple other places but to be honest I cant remember them all. AAC actually called me to recommend Liberty and thunder beast.

I don't remember all the other ones I tried, I am still new to this so I just used Google.

Its more of one of those things where you just get sick of looking so you go with what ever you all ready have found.

I really did not mean for this to be a complaint thread I am fine with AWC and I am willing to go with other places next time (there will be a next time)


as for the local elevation it is 4200-4500 feet depending on where you shoot. The bullet is less than 1.5 inches long using a ruler to measure (steal core makes them longer
Last edited by Deja vu on Fri May 04, 2012 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bendersquint
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by Bendersquint »

Keep us in mind in the future.

Let the forum know how many pounds the AWC comes in at when you get it.

They are tanks and not serviceable so be sure not to shoot any lead in it.
Deja vu
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by Deja vu »

Keep us in mind in the future.

Let the forum know how many pounds the AWC comes in at when you get it.

They are tanks and not serviceable so be sure not to shoot any lead in it.
Yeah I am aware of the lead thing. I will keep you guys in mind.

Like I said it was not my first choice but I did not know of much else at the time. Ill let you guys know about the pounds. To be honest this was not a big deal to me. The size was also not a huge deal. In the e-mail I sent out I told them every one that size and weight are not a problem.

In all honesty I have read a lot about the thundertrap and AWC in general and they seem to make a lot of exaggerated claims. I think I am like most people that buy a silencer. I have never shot one before and I believe what I read. I had literally nothing else to go on. I did not even know about this forum until a few days ago. I jsut went with what Google came up with and my FFL guy backed it up, I think he just wanted a sell.

My next project may be a 50 Alaskan... I like lever actions.

That was the other thing that AWC did that other places would not do is thread my rifle. Some places where all about doing it till they found out it was a leaver action. Even Tornado Tech did not want to thread my Marlin.
It will not sound like a 300 blk. but it should be ok.
to be quite honest I do not know what a 300BLK is. I am more in to revolvers, 1911s and lever action rifles. As I said before I don't think real quiet is even possible with a 45/70. I just hunt alot and don't want to ruin my hearing any more than I have to. I do not enjoy wearing hearing protection when I am sweating. When I hunt it takes a lot of walking and I sweat a lot. I have never liked in the ear style protection and once I start sweating I can not stand earmuffs. The suppressor was the next best thing.
hol37748
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by hol37748 »

I just got received my 45-70 suppressor and love it. I developed a great load using 400 gr Speer jacketed bullets and 425 gr cast bullets both over 16 gr of Trailboss. They are running at 1050 fps and I'm getting 1-1/4" groups at 100 yds out of my Encore Katahdin rifle.

I'm also shooting suppressed loads out of a 12.5" AAC upper in 300 blackout with a 300 SD suppressor and the suppressed 45-70 is quieter! I was shocked to say the least. It is just a myth that big bores don't suppress well. Everyone that I let shoot the 45-70 just laughs at the lack of report from that big bullet


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redtazdog
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by redtazdog »

A TC 45/70 may be quieter than a AR in 300 blackout but its not quieter than a TC in 300 blackout.
hol37748
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by hol37748 »

I'm already looking at Encore barrels in 300 Blackout. :)
jaredr
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by jaredr »

hol37748 wrote:I just got received my 45-70 suppressor and love it. I developed a great load using 400 gr Speer jacketed bullets and 425 gr cast bullets both over 16 gr of Trailboss. They are running at 1050 fps and I'm getting 1-1/4" groups at 100 yds out of my Encore Katahdin rifle.

I'm also shooting suppressed loads out of a 12.5" AAC upper in 300 blackout with a 300 SD suppressor and the suppressed 45-70 is quieter! I was shocked to say the least. It is just a myth that big bores don't suppress well. Everyone that I let shoot the 45-70 just laughs at the lack of report from that big bullet


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hol37748 - what suppressor are you using? are you running it with coolant or dry? If with coolant, can you advise what yoiu are using and how many rounds you're getting use out of the coolant before it burns off? I've tried a Thomson Machine QMFII on a cut down guide gun. It is hearing safe when run with wire-pulling gel, which lasts about 10-12 rounds. After that, it's not so much fun without earpro.

bendersquint - email sent re: custom work.

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Boosted98gsx
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by Boosted98gsx »

Wow, I am interested! I would love to own a servicable suppressor to be used in both .45-70 and .45 colt for my leverguns. Would be awesome to get a group buy going for them.
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Bendersquint
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by Bendersquint »

Boosted98gsx wrote:Wow, I am interested! I would love to own a servicable suppressor to be used in both .45-70 and .45 colt for my leverguns. Would be awesome to get a group buy going for them.
We have asked in the past if there was enough interest for a group buy and the response was around 8 people.

Sadly, not enough interest for a group buy, we will be making ours on demand, 99% chance it won't be a line item, unfortunately.
Boosted98gsx
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by Boosted98gsx »

Bendersquint wrote:
Boosted98gsx wrote:Wow, I am interested! I would love to own a servicable suppressor to be used in both .45-70 and .45 colt for my leverguns. Would be awesome to get a group buy going for them.
We have asked in the past if there was enough interest for a group buy and the response was around 8 people.

Sadly, not enough interest for a group buy, we will be making ours on demand, 99% chance it won't be a line item, unfortunately.
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jaredr
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by jaredr »

per pm, pls keep me on the list for when you have pricing and lead time info.
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by Bendersquint »

jaredr wrote:per pm, pls keep me on the list for when you have pricing and lead time info.
You are on the list.
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by BIGDADDY »

hol37748 wrote:I just got received my 45-70 suppressor and love it. I developed a great load using 400 gr Speer jacketed bullets and 425 gr cast bullets both over 16 gr of Trailboss. They are running at 1050 fps and I'm getting 1-1/4" groups at 100 yds out of my Encore Katahdin rifle.

I'm also shooting suppressed loads out of a 12.5" AAC upper in 300 blackout with a 300 SD suppressor and the suppressed 45-70 is quieter! I was shocked to say the least. It is just a myth that big bores don't suppress well. Everyone that I let shoot the 45-70 just laughs at the lack of report from that big bullet


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I love that "TC 45-70 and wanting that setup myself, may I ask what brand suppressor is that and how much it cost please. P.S. any way you can put up a video of it in use :D
blueheeler66
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by blueheeler66 »

Op, I wouldn't worry too much about the AWC cans. One of my FFL/SOTs is a big fan of AWC. I know that they aren't held in high regard compared to other suppressors and I'm not sure why.

Anyway, I have been to the range with this FFL and have shot a couple AWC cans of his. One was on a .308 then switched over to a 300 Win Mag; it was quiet (or quiet enough anyway).
Then we shot the AWC for the .338 Lapua and it was pretty impressive also. Then we shot the Amphibian and it was nice to shoot also.

A bunch of these guys might know about better cans or more efficient cans and the reasons why they're better, but the AWCs we shot did a good job. I didn't have any other cans to compare them to that day but they did a good job.
hol37748
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by hol37748 »

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond. First, I'm using a Bowers Vers 50 suppressor and I'm running it dry. I paid $750 for it directly from Bowers. Never even thought to run it wet considering the performance I'm getting.

When shooting subsonic loads, it is very quiet. Supersonic rounds have a loud crack and are barely hearing safe in my opinion. Developing a subsonic load is key to keeping it quiet.

I liked it on my encore so much that I had my Marlin Guide Gun barrel cut down and threaded for the suppessor. I think it is my new go-to rig. I had Clements Custom Guns cut the barrel down and thread it for me. About a week and a half turn around on the work including shipping for $200. Can't beat that!

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samson7x
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by samson7x »

Has anyone tried the Bowers Vers 50 on a .458 socom? I'm looking toward the .458 for my next AR build and would like to suppress it (of course.)
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by srt-4_uk »

It would be almost the same as a suppressed 45/70, just a little louder because of the AR action.
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Fulliautomatix
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by Fulliautomatix »

Bumping an old thread here, but what threads are you guys getting cut on your .45-70s?

Looking at the Lane .458 cans their base offering are:5/8-24, 5/8-32, and 11/16-24.
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Bendersquint
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by Bendersquint »

We do 11/16-24 on our can.
AkGun&ammo
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Re: My new 45/70 suppressor... questions

Post by AkGun&ammo »

Bender,

add this ol Geezer to the list.

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