9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

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Whitebrad25
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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by Whitebrad25 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:06 pm

Well what about the buffer though. We mentioned options earlier that keep quiet-ness and suppression at mind, what will likely be a quiet, yet heavy alternative? Any links to a specific product?

As far as the lower goes, well....Like I said, I would have to stake the buffer tube properly...that is something I have seen many people F- up....


I am emailing them and asking if their buffer tube is staked. I also asked if it is "mil-spec" or commercial. If you think about LPKs, roughly $50-$60, them being installed, the buffer tube (not sure if it comes with buffer but if it does then that adds value), the Magpul MOE grip, and the cost isn't that ridiculous for the completed pistol lower. :|
Last edited by Whitebrad25 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Whitebrad25
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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by Whitebrad25 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:09 pm

Furthermore, what is the difference in the aluminum that justifies the $50 additional cost for the 7057 aluminum? And the VLTOR option is the only way to get the higher grade aluminum.

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Emilio
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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by Emilio » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:23 pm

The 7075 is stronger and the same price if standard cut. Either is fine for a lower. They where doing a new batch of non V but they may be taken by now, (call them) I thing the V cut is a rip. :mrgreen:

The buffer is all about slowing the fired round at the chamber so less noise leaks out. ( and timing the gun, I time my guns by watching my brass fly.

The spacer is for all the travel of the spring and buffer coming back and slamming and sometimes breaking the bolt release. True 9mm buffers are longer but either way is fine and some spacing still may be needed. Longer buffers can hold more weight easier.

I like to get the bolt to lock back then maybe 1/4" past.

May find some links for you later, ( on my I pad now- with spell check. :P )
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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by redtazdog » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:50 am

I have built many AR's in many calibers and never staked the buffer tubes and they have never come loose so dont stress about this.
CMMG makes the ramped 9mm bolts for Spikes.
Some 9mm 1:10 twist barrels here for a decent price http://www.jsesurplus.com/ar9mm.aspx

Whitebrad25
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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by Whitebrad25 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:27 am

redtazdog wrote:I have built many AR's in many calibers and never staked the buffer tubes and they have never come loose so dont stress about this.
CMMG makes the ramped 9mm bolts for Spikes.
Some 9mm 1:10 twist barrels here for a decent price http://www.jsesurplus.com/ar9mm.aspx

Thanks for the help to all who have replied!

You aren't the first to mention that about CMMG so I will definitely look into that. I posted this on AR15.com so I can try and coorelate as much info as possible. So I should look to CMMG then for bolts?

I have looked at that website and I like this barrel: http://www.jsesurplus.com/16bdss9mmhbarbarrel-1-1.aspx

My only problem with it is the threading (1/2x36).....not sure what I would need to do should I go 9mm or 45 suppressed....I am not sure what that thread runs with.. :?:

Whitebrad25
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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by Whitebrad25 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:23 am

In watching some youtube videos I feel that I should clarify....I NEED to have a last shot hold open on this rifle...I don't think I would have any problems with the build list but I want to make sure...

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Emilio
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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by Emilio » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:29 am

The CMMG bolt works great, the link I post before has them. Also check gunbroker for pistol uppers if not building, saw quite a few months ago. You can buy a CMMG upper and cut it down too.

You can get buffers from Aim surplus , H-3 to 8oz 9mm,free shipping, also the place I posted have H3 with a spacer. Buy the RRA mags from them, same as metal form ( the best) but better deal , C products mags are cheaper but built cheaper and can be iffy.

Stick with name barrels unless great feedback. You can cut any 9 mm barrel and thread what you want but you need fixed adapters or 3 lug for your suppressor.

Most 9mm hold open when not using converted UZI mags.
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Whitebrad25
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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by Whitebrad25 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:51 am

Is a suppressor that has a 3 lug compatability fixed or is it like a piston/booster that can be taken out? I assume if that question makes sense that it would depend on the suppressor but what I am trying to ask is are 3 lug compatable suppressors permanently fixed as 3 lug or could they be set up to thread onto a 9mm handgun barrel later?


I like the 3 lug because of the simplicity and the retention but I like the versatility that moving the suppressor gives as well and this would be my one and only 9mm carbine be it SBR or not.

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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by strobro32 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:01 am

It has been mentioned a few times in this thread but I feel it needs to be repeated. A blowback 9mm AR is not the quietest 9mm host, although quieter than 300Blk. Some of the guys out there tune their ARs extensively for the best performance but blowback AR9s are still louder than a suppressed Browning action Glock, Sig or M&P pistol host.

I only mention this because you want a "cheaper" range toy, you're not into having a lot of guns, you don't reload, you're not the tinkering type and you want it "quiet."
Last edited by strobro32 on Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Emilio
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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by Emilio » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:17 pm

Whitebrad25 wrote:Is a suppressor that has a 3 lug compatability fixed or is it like a piston/booster that can be taken out? I assume if that question makes sense that it would depend on the suppressor but what I am trying to ask is are 3 lug compatable suppressors permanently fixed as 3 lug or could they be set up to thread onto a 9mm handgun barrel later?


I like the 3 lug because of the simplicity and the retention but I like the versatility that moving the suppressor gives as well and this would be my one and only 9mm carbine be it SBR or not.
You need a can that takes a 3 lug adapters then need the adapter/lug on the barrel. Google 3 lug adapter and you see.

Fixed barrel guns need the piston removed from the suppressor. The change to fixed adapter.
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Emilio
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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by Emilio » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:20 pm

strobro32 wrote:It has been mentioned a few times in this thread but I feel it needs to be repeated. A blowback 9mm AR is not the quietest 9mm host, although quieter than 300Blk. Some of the guys out there tune there ARs extensively for the best performance but they are still louder than a suppressed Browning action Glock, Sig or M&P pistol host.

I only mention this because you want a cheaper range toy, you're not into having a lot of guns, you don't reload, you're not the tinkering type and you want it "quiet."
I agree, Bolts and levers will be the most quiet but he wants tacticool I think. Just remember, once you get a suppressor you will want more hosts so get something good for everything! :D :D
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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by Whitebrad25 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:52 pm

strobro32 wrote:It has been mentioned a few times in this thread but I feel it needs to be repeated. A blowback 9mm AR is not the quietest 9mm host, although quieter than 300Blk. Some of the guys out there tune their ARs extensively for the best performance but blowback AR9s are still louder than a suppressed Browning action Glock, Sig or M&P pistol host.

I only mention this because you want a "cheaper" range toy, you're not into having a lot of guns, you don't reload, you're not the tinkering type and you want it "quiet."
Actually, I take carbine classes and this platform carries over somewhat to my Daniel Defense M4V5. I am not just looking for a plinker and I do own several firearms. I am actually buying another this week. I only don't reload because I haven't worked past the initial costs (I keep buying ammo and guns). I generally do tinker to an extent. I don't have the AR15 tools so I want to avoid that trouble but most of what I would need for this build I feel comfortable with.

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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by MMH » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:06 am

What about a Sig MPX? How quiet will it be compared to a blowback 9mm?

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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by CanOfWhooppass » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:25 am

I have 2 9mm SBR'S and a 300BO SBR as well. Unless you have a desire to shoot through soft body armor, the 9mm wins in all catagories for me. Shorter barrel, suppressors weigh less, very quiet, dosnt get as hot, ammo cheaper, self defense 147 ammo very effective better ballance and handling due to shorter barrel and light weight can. Used QC10 glock lowers, Gibbz side cocker upper with TROS 5" 3-lug barrels for both, very happy, very reliable. Use Glock OEM mags, others are very hit and miss.
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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by eastern_hunter » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:15 pm

The use you intend for the weapon is most important.

I have both ... 9mm pistol and SBR fitted with Octane 9 HD, 16" 300 BLK fitted with SAS Ti Arbiter can; 8.5" 300 BLK AR SBR fitted with Octane 9 on a 3 lug. Also have an MPX.

MPX is quietest with Octane 9 HD and 158 gr Fiocchi subs. Damn close to Hollywood quiet! 16" 300 BLK w Arbiter and 220 gr SMK subs is very close. 9mm AR SBR w Octane 9 is pretty good. 300 BLK AR SBR w Octane 9 HD not as good but is hearing safe I think.

The 300 BLK is much more effective as a hunting or CQB tool. Energy similar to subsonic 44 mag or 44 Special load. 220 gr projectiles tend to upset on impact making them vicious!

9mm is fun and cheap to shoot ... especially if you load your own 147 gr heavies. Very few 9mm heavies expand at subsonic speeds.

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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by Aaron » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:05 pm

Build both. Problem solved. You're welcome : )

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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by Aaron » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:10 pm

Seriously though. I have both. If you are looking for a quiet, inexpensive paper puncher. The 9 is hard to beat. As others have stated though, the ballistics of a sub-sonic 9 worry me a bit, particular when you are talking about shooting at any distance beyond 100 yds. I believe the 300 is all around better from a ballistics stand point.

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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by MMH » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:48 am

Aaron wrote:Seriously though. I have both. If you are looking for a quiet, inexpensive paper puncher. The 9 is hard to beat. As others have stated though, the ballistics of a sub-sonic 9 worry me a bit, particular when you are talking about shooting at any distance beyond 100 yds. I believe the 300 is all around better from a ballistics stand point.
Clearly the ballistics of a 220 gr. 30 cal. bullet would beat a 9mm. At the same time, if the objective is to shoot subsonic, it is going to be difficult to shoot past 200 yards (bullte drop is 1/2" per yard and similar for 9mm and 30 cal because the low velocity impacts the bullet drop far more than BC).

If muzzle energy is the secondary concern (with staying subsonic the primary concern), then why not move up to a .458 SOCOM? A subsonic 9mm will get you 400 ft.-lb., a 30 cal. 600 ft.-lb. but a 458 is up to 1600 ft.-lb.

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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by fishman » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:33 am

MMH wrote:
Aaron wrote:Seriously though. I have both. If you are looking for a quiet, inexpensive paper puncher. The 9 is hard to beat. As others have stated though, the ballistics of a sub-sonic 9 worry me a bit, particular when you are talking about shooting at any distance beyond 100 yds. I believe the 300 is all around better from a ballistics stand point.
Clearly the ballistics of a 220 gr. 30 cal. bullet would beat a 9mm. At the same time, if the objective is to shoot subsonic, it is going to be difficult to shoot past 200 yards (bullte drop is 1/2" per yard and similar for 9mm and 30 cal because the low velocity impacts the bullet drop far more than BC).

If muzzle energy is the secondary concern (with staying subsonic the primary concern), then why not move up to a .458 SOCOM? A subsonic 9mm will get you 400 ft.-lb., a 30 cal. 600 ft.-lb. but a 458 is up to 1600 ft.-lb.
458 definitely has its niche, but 300 blackout has a lot more rounds per magazine and is way cheaper, easier to find brass, and works with all .223 AR parts except the barrel.
Last edited by fishman on Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647

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Re: 9mm vs 300 Blackout/Whisper Suppressed....bear with me.

Post by bwp777 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:06 pm

call joe at Curtis Tactical. I did the 9mm dedicated glock mag lower and a SD Tactical Maglite suppressor that I had joe port the barrel and make a new baffle stack for. i'm very happy but he could probably build or help w/ an even better design. Do 9mm. you will be happy and if not, you can always move it to get the 300.

I have 2 videos on youtube if you want to check them out at

bwp777

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