Gun store commando or good advice

General silencer discussion. If you want to talk about a specific silenced rifle or pistol, it is best to do that in the rifle or pistol section for that brand.

All NFA laws apply.

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw, renegade

Post Reply
User avatar
laxguy59
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:26 pm

Gun store commando or good advice

Post by laxguy59 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:14 pm

My local store that has great prices only carries AAC, surefire, and SilencerCo. Today looking at 30 caliber cans he said if I wanted an accurate rifle I should go with the surefire. He stated the 7.62SDN had a huge POI shift. Here's where he loses his credibility, infact he did not mean POI shift, but he claimed the LWRC rifle he shot had a group this big from 100 yards (Imagine him holding his hands about 1 foot apart) with the SDN, but just as accurate as unsuppressed with the surefire can.

So was he trying to sell me the more expensive can, or was he trying to save me the trouble of an inaccurate combo?

He also lost credibility when he told me .40 is a bad suppressed round. I told him I shoot subsonic .40 ammunition anyway he said it did not matter because .40 was just not good for suppressing even subsonic. He said it would be" just inside hearing safe". My last dealer, who is no longer open, was a lot more knowledgeable and professional, but these guys have great prices and they are very close to me.

User avatar
JasonM
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1483
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:51 pm
Location: NoVA
Contact:

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by JasonM » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:33 pm

laxguy59 wrote:My local store that has great prices only carries AAC, surefire, and SilencerCo. Today looking at 30 caliber cans he said if I wanted an accurate rifle I should go with the surefire. He stated the 7.62SDN had a huge POI shift. Here's where he loses his credibility, infact he did not mean POI shift, but he claimed the LWRC rifle he shot had a group this big from 100 yards (Imagine him holding his hands about 1 foot apart) with the SDN, but just as accurate as unsuppressed with the surefire can.

So was he trying to sell me the more expensive can, or was he trying to save me the trouble of an inaccurate combo?

He also lost credibility when he told me .40 is a bad suppressed round. I told him I shoot subsonic .40 ammunition anyway he said it did not matter because .40 was just not good for suppressing even subsonic. He said it would be" just inside hearing safe". My last dealer, who is no longer open, was a lot more knowledgeable and professional, but these guys have great prices and they are very close to me.

Gun store BS.

Any good can should actually tighten up your groups from their unsuppressed size. The 762-SDN-6 is an excellent can (so are the Surefire offerings).

On the other hand, he's KIND of right about the .40- in context at least-

.22 is MUCH quieter and cheaper

9mm is cheaper, easier to quiet down, and has common subsonic loads

All of the standard .45 rounds are subsonic.

That all said, with sub rounds and a good can, 40 can sound good.
Kick Ass Design
ten:pm media
www.facebook.com/VisualGravy

User avatar
laxguy59
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:26 pm

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by laxguy59 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:49 pm

He also told me LW barrels split in half. I was like please let me walk away from your counter.

And to Clarify I'm waiting on an Osprey 45 and I'm going to get threaded barrels in all my calibers, even 357sig. No point in having a can and not making everything quieter even if it's just a little. I just hate being told about loud rounds, because I couldn't give two shits, I want to make it quieter no matter what.

Another issue I'm not sure on that he mentioned. he said Glocks were bad hosts due to the loose tolerances. I've only shot suppressed 22's and 1911's in 45acp, so that's the extent of my knowledge.

jaredr
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 594
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:14 pm

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by jaredr » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:44 pm

laxguy59 wrote: He stated the 7.62SDN had a huge POI shift. Here's where he loses his credibility, infact he did not mean POI shift, but he claimed the LWRC rifle he shot had a group this big from 100 yards (Imagine him holding his hands about 1 foot apart) with the SDN, but just as accurate as unsuppressed with the surefire can.
Photo below was a recent group from a savage model 10 in .308 with a 762-sd. If your dealer really got 12" groups from the aac but not from the surefire, then perhaps he damaged the crown swapping out muzzle devices? I'm giving him credit for not trying to screw the 762-sd onto a surefire muzzle device & then complain about accuracy... bottom line is his comments that the 762-sd will degrade accuracy are not correct.

Image

edited for spelling...
Last edited by jaredr on Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
JasonM
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1483
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:51 pm
Location: NoVA
Contact:

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by JasonM » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:59 pm

laxguy59 wrote:He also told me LW barrels split in half. I was like please let me walk away from your counter.

And to Clarify I'm waiting on an Osprey 45 and I'm going to get threaded barrels in all my calibers, even 357sig. No point in having a can and not making everything quieter even if it's just a little. I just hate being told about loud rounds, because I couldn't give two shits, I want to make it quieter no matter what.

Another issue I'm not sure on that he mentioned. he said Glocks were bad hosts due to the loose tolerances. I've only shot suppressed 22's and 1911's in 45acp, so that's the extent of my knowledge.

Wow, quite the store.

Your 45 Osprey will do a great job with all of your calibers, awesome can. You already know the deal with supersonic versus subsonic, so you know what to expect.

Glocks are awesome reliable hosts. All that really matters is that the barrel/action locks up tight when in battery and Glocks definitely do.
Kick Ass Design
ten:pm media
www.facebook.com/VisualGravy

User avatar
renegade
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:19 am
Location: Texas

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by renegade » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:56 pm

laxguy59 wrote:My local store that has great prices only carries AAC, surefire, and SilencerCo. Today looking at 30 caliber cans he said if I wanted an accurate rifle I should go with the surefire. He stated the 7.62SDN had a huge POI shift. Here's where he loses his credibility, infact he did not mean POI shift, but he claimed the LWRC rifle he shot had a group this big from 100 yards (Imagine him holding his hands about 1 foot apart) with the SDN, but just as accurate as unsuppressed with the surefire can.

So was he trying to sell me the more expensive can, or was he trying to save me the trouble of an inaccurate combo?

He also lost credibility when he told me .40 is a bad suppressed round. I told him I shoot subsonic .40 ammunition anyway he said it did not matter because .40 was just not good for suppressing even subsonic. He said it would be" just inside hearing safe". My last dealer, who is no longer open, was a lot more knowledgeable and professional, but these guys have great prices and they are very close to me.
His really has no credibility at all.

1) Accurate rifles are built from accurate rifles, not silencers.

2) Correct, he does not know what POI means.

3) .40 suppresses really well, and is certainly hearing safe as commonly defined. So he does not know much about that either.

User avatar
BLAKE2131
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:30 am
Location: Ft Worth

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by BLAKE2131 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:40 pm

Whats a LW bbl? LoneWolf, Lothar Walthar....

I love my 40 suppress just hate shooting it because its more $$$ than a 9 or 22

His gun couldve not like that particular can so many factors along with being specially educated
Blake
Liberty Suppressors
Remember to follow us on Facebook and Twitter

User avatar
laxguy59
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:26 pm

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by laxguy59 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:43 pm

BLAKE2131 wrote:Whats a LW bbl? LoneWolf, Lothar Walthar....

I love my 40 suppress just hate shooting it because its more $$$ than a 9 or 22
Sorry assumed Lone Wolf would be understood since I talked about Glock as well.

I get that 40 is more expensive, but why shoot loud when I can shoot quieter regardless of the round.
Plus I have a sparrow for my 22lr, the Osprey will be my all around pistol can until I decide on a good micro pistol caliber can for the small stuff.

User avatar
renegade
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:19 am
Location: Texas

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by renegade » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:46 pm

laxguy59 wrote:He also told me LW barrels split in half. I was like please let me walk away from your counter.

And to Clarify I'm waiting on an Osprey 45 and I'm going to get threaded barrels in all my calibers, even 357sig. No point in having a can and not making everything quieter even if it's just a little. I just hate being told about loud rounds, because I couldn't give two shits, I want to make it quieter no matter what.

Another issue I'm not sure on that he mentioned. he said Glocks were bad hosts due to the loose tolerances. I've only shot suppressed 22's and 1911's in 45acp, so that's the extent of my knowledge.
His track record of being wrong on everything is still intact.

User avatar
TROOPER
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 7440
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:24 pm
Location: Augusta, Georgia

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by TROOPER » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:09 pm

On the 40 caliber... maybe he's referencing really, really old data?

I dunno. I own a LWD barrel for my 9mm. Since it is on a GLOCK 17, the barrel is long enough, and the 9mm is mild enough, that I wouldn't worry about shooting it without a thread-protector... but I use one anyway.

Just to try and figure out how he could be correct... maybe he had a baffle-strike on the 7.62 and didn't know it; or maybe the can was loose on the threads. Maybe the thread job wasn't concentric. Maybe the LWD barrel was on an ultra sub-compact 357 Sig, and the pressure was still high at the thinner, threaded portion of the barrel causing an already existing, minor factory defect to open up.

I suspect he's right about GLOCKs being less-than-ideal handguns in the accuracy department... but I wouldn't consider them to be noticably louder as a suppressor host.



.... then again, maybe he's just wrong about all of it.

At least he carries higher quality brand merchandise.

User avatar
twodollarbill
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: wisconsin

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by twodollarbill » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:13 pm

Sounds like he thinks he's a legend in his own mind. I run into quite a few that think
what ever comes out of their mouths is the truth.
If they are close and offer the prices that you want to pay....
Expect no more.....use them and smile every time you leave their shop. 8)

User avatar
laxguy59
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:26 pm

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by laxguy59 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:20 pm

Yea he spilled his moutain dew twice while I was talking to him, once on the semi-automatic Barrett rifle. He is just a hired body, I work with the NFA guy who is the manager and know him personally, he seems not to care that the guy is retarded. We were poling fun at him while he helped someone else and he mentioned, "yea that guy is the expert on tacticool". Maybe owner's relative?

I also had my AR with me and he saw my Timney trigger and said, "you need to buy a spare GI trigger when that range trigger craps on you when you need it most". I didn't even respond to him, it was my long range/coyote set up. It would provide a strange Home defense firearm ergonomically speaking.

User avatar
MV10
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 835
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 2:12 pm
Location: FL

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by MV10 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:46 am

laxguy59 wrote:I also had my AR with me and he saw my Timney trigger and said, "you need to buy a spare GI trigger when that range trigger craps on you when you need it most". I didn't even respond to him, it was my long range/coyote set up. It would provide a strange Home defense firearm ergonomically speaking.
Sounds like you escaped just before he started talking about "zombies".
Modern American political discourse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio

User avatar
silencertalk
Site Admin
Posts: 33985
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:31 am
Location: USA

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by silencertalk » Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:41 am

I think his comments on 40 were reasonable. It suppresses worse than 9mm because the bore is larger, there is more powder, and more bullet flight noise.

User avatar
renegade
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:19 am
Location: Texas

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by renegade » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:14 am

TROOPER wrote:On the 40 caliber... maybe he's referencing really, really old data?
Probably. Engineered 40 cans are not common, especially a few years ago.

My Osprey40 runs around 127, which is only a a few dB more than 9mm, and superior to most 45ACP cans. And 127 is nowhere near "just inside hearing safe".

On the other hand, I have seen some older 40 cans that did push 140 or so, as well as shooting 40 through 45, which metered high.

jlwilliams
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2071
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:15 am
Location: NC

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by jlwilliams » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:45 pm

He keeps his job by showing up on time. Sometimes you keep a half assed employee just because he's reliable. I worked with one once. He was really, really limited in his skill set. He showed up, never drunk or hung over and wouldn't steal a paper clip. That was enough. He was given tasks in small doses so he wouldn't forget what he was doing (not exagerating) and he always did his best which wasn't great. If he said he'd be there, he was there and ready; so he got a check every Wednesday.

User avatar
Emilio
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2339
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:38 pm

Re: Gun store commando or good advice

Post by Emilio » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:57 pm

A few things.

My SDN-6 shoots great on all my guns and calibers.

Your AR trigger is not the "best" for self defense but sounds like it for target shooting anyway.

Glocks CAN shoot very well but they very from gun to gun and many people never "try" to shoot well with them or master trigger/grip.

I have a Glock 34 that shot consistent 1 1/4" groups NIB rested at 25 yards (factory ammo) My G-26 (baby Glock) 1 1/2" G-19 2" groups. Have seen peoples Glocks do even better and many worse.

I shoot "loose" 1911's that where tack drivers, shot tight 1911's that where worse. (it vary gun to gun)

Never seen a split LW barrel in person but have seen about everything when comes to guns.

I personal don't like 40 S&W and sold all mine, I shoot 9mm better and faster and more quiet and rather jump to 45 and was huge 10mm fan. (so maybe why I hate 40) YOU maybe different or go through same thing later. :lol:

Commandos are everywhere, more customer commando's than gun shop commando's for sure! Best thing to do is get much advice then factor the average, there no perfect gun or caliber or suppressor, it up to YOU to try a find which shoe fit best. :D

If a stranger tells you what is best for YOU, and never spent hours shooting with you he is full of crap. :mrgreen:
Member of the LSU, SWR, and RUGGED underground. Shame Silencerco!

Post Reply