NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

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JasonM
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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by JasonM » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:41 pm

doubloon wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:...
You still can't transfer something that doesn't exist, which means when they filed the Form2 to manufacturer they filed it with false information since manufacturers file the Form2 AFTER it is made, not before.

It would be a Form4 not a Form1.
That was the question buried in my ramble.

Assuming the details from the OP are accurate does this constitute a violation on the part of the manufacterer/vendor and is this possibly a lead in to another FFL/SOT getting revoked?
Technically, yes.
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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by renegade » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:48 pm

Bendersquint wrote:

You still can't transfer something that doesn't exist, which means when they filed the Form2 to manufacturer they filed it with false information since manufacturers file the Form2 AFTER it is made, not before.
Several well known MFGs make and register the tubes. They then complete them later. So the Form 2 is filed legally, but the rest is not completed.

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:53 pm

renegade wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:

You still can't transfer something that doesn't exist, which means when they filed the Form2 to manufacturer they filed it with false information since manufacturers file the Form2 AFTER it is made, not before.
Several well known MFGs make and register the tubes. They then complete them later. So the Form 2 is filed legally, but the rest is not completed.
I am aware of that but those manufacturers don't wait the 4-8 months of a transfer before they start building it, and they definitely don't say things along the lines of "Now we can start making the silencer".

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by renegade » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:03 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
renegade wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:

You still can't transfer something that doesn't exist, which means when they filed the Form2 to manufacturer they filed it with false information since manufacturers file the Form2 AFTER it is made, not before.
Several well known MFGs make and register the tubes. They then complete them later. So the Form 2 is filed legally, but the rest is not completed.
I am aware of that but those manufacturers don't wait the 4-8 months of a transfer before they start building it, and they definitely don't say things along the lines of "Now we can start making the silencer".
Well it happened to me in 2006. It was 7 months. And when I asked how it has an SN if it was not made yet, I was told the tube was made just not all the other parts.

OP made want to get clarification of what specifically is still needing to be made.

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:33 pm

Good point Renegade. It happened to me in the 2005-2007 time frame as well, it was before the ATF started putting the hammer down on manufacturers.

I had a silencer Form4 approved for almost a year before I actually saw it.

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by noledan » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:51 pm

I emailed them a short while ago. I asked for a firm date for me to pick the suppressor up, or for a refund. I said that I could wait days, perhaps a few weeks, but certainly not months. I would just as soon start over with a dealer who has the suppressor in stock.

By the way, I paid for the suppressor in December 2010. A busy spring 2011 at work and some delay getting the CLEO to sign off on my paperwork led to me submitting my check and paperwork to the ATF in October 2011. In April 2012, the ATF told me that there was a problem with the paperwork that the manufacturer submitted. They fixed that pretty quickly, but this caused more delay. My stamp was finally mailed out in June 2012. It won't be long before 2 years will have passed since I paid for this suppressor.

I'll let you know how they respond. Hopefully they will respond appropriately and make this right. I tend toward giving them the benefit of the doubt - I know they are busy. But this is going to get resolved, one way or another.

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by renegade » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:56 pm

noledan wrote:I emailed them a short while ago. I asked for a firm date for me to pick the suppressor up, or for a refund. I said that I could wait days, perhaps a few weeks, but certainly not months. I would just as soon start over with a dealer who has the suppressor in stock.

By the way, I paid for the suppressor in December 2010. A busy spring 2011 at work and some delay getting the CLEO to sign off on my paperwork led to me submitting my check and paperwork to the ATF in October 2011. In April 2012, the ATF told me that there was a problem with the paperwork that the manufacturer submitted. They fixed that pretty quickly, but this caused more delay. My stamp was finally mailed out in June 2012. It won't be long before 2 years will have passed since I paid for this suppressor.

I'll let you know how they respond. Hopefully they will respond appropriately and make this right. I tend toward giving them the benefit of the doubt - I know they are busy. But this is going to get resolved, one way or another.
I am pretty sure the company you originally bought the silencer from no longer has an FFL//SOT. How was that handled?

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by noledan » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:03 pm


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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by renegade » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:13 pm

noledan wrote:Their license is current: http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/ffl-list.html#
I just checked, the new FFL was issued in Nov 2010, so it ocurrred right before you bought.

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by twodollarbill » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:18 pm

So the OP made some noise and woke Mr "Game Changer" up and he had one of his
monkeys thread and numbered a tube before anyone was wise.
Now what?

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by Kramer » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:05 pm

Tag...so I can follow this disaster in progress.

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by Ron Dishop Silencers » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:52 pm

[quote="Shamrock-MP"]I am not a manufacturer so maybe some else can clarify my understanding. As I understand it, A manufacturer must submit a Form 2 for all firearms manufactured the next business day at the latest. Then the firearm can be sold/transferred.

A manufacture has to submit a form 2 within 24 hours after a firearm or suppressor has been completed.
The firearm or Suppressor can not be formed 3 or 4 untill after the NFA branch gives the manufacture a NFA Control Number for the firearm or Suppressor that has been form 2.
When I submit a form 2 I usally receive the Control Number with in 9-13 days.
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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:34 pm

Ron Dishop Silencers wrote:
Shamrock-MP wrote:I am not a manufacturer so maybe some else can clarify my understanding. As I understand it, A manufacturer must submit a Form 2 for all firearms manufactured the next business day at the latest. Then the firearm can be sold/transferred.

A manufacture has to submit a form 2 within 24 hours after a firearm or suppressor has been completed.
The firearm or Suppressor can not be formed 3 or 4 untill after the NFA branch gives the manufacture a NFA Control Number for the firearm or Suppressor that has been form 2.
When I submit a form 2 I usally receive the Control Number with in 9-13 days.
I just got my latest control number after 28 days!

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by noledan » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:26 am

Bendersquint - I checked out your website. Sure wish I could "own the can I paid for." I'd love to check out your shop next time I am up that way. I do some work for Harnett County so I swing through every once in a while.

No response yet from the mfr to my email sent Tuesday.

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by Shamrock-MP » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:57 am

I have been told recently that a manufacturer can submit the Form 2 prior to the manufacturing run stating all serial numbers that will be produced. This would make the transaction legal. Anyone agree?
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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:54 am

Shamrock-MP wrote:I have been told recently that a manufacturer can submit the Form 2 prior to the manufacturing run stating all serial numbers that will be produced. This would make the transaction legal. Anyone agree?
The flaw in this is that as soon as a Form2 is submitted the items listed should already be in the bound book as they are accountable items at that point.

How can you have an accountable item in your bound book that doesn't exist yet? Would love to see the IO's face when they ask to see those silencers and you tell them you haven't gotten to them yet or they are in production.

Form2's are submitted AFTER the NFA item has been produced.

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by renegade » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:56 am

Shamrock-MP wrote:I have been told recently that a manufacturer can submit the Form 2 prior to the manufacturing run stating all serial numbers that will be produced. This would make the transaction legal. Anyone agree?
I'd like to see it in writing on BATFE letterhead.

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Re: NFA Transfer Question - Getting Impatient

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:32 pm

renegade wrote:
Shamrock-MP wrote:I have been told recently that a manufacturer can submit the Form 2 prior to the manufacturing run stating all serial numbers that will be produced. This would make the transaction legal. Anyone agree?
I'd like to see it in writing on BATFE letterhead.
You won't because its not the procedure for an 07/02........you know that though! :wink:

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