Serial Numbers

[mashjax]

This might be a stupid question but why do people blackout or photoshop the serial numbers when they post photos. I see this on lots of class 3 photos as well as other gun photos. What bad stuff can happen if someone sees the serial number of your can or pac-lite? Thanks in advance for any comments.

[Bendersquint]

This might be a stupid question but why do people blackout or photoshop the serial numbers when they post photos. I see this on lots of class 3 photos as well as other gun photos. What bad stuff can happen if someone sees the serial number of your can or pac-lite? Thanks in advance for any comments.

On Title2 stuff its because they want to be cool or something, there is NOTHING that can be done against you. You have the Form4 proof of ownership, noone can claim its theirs or stolen etc...

The ONLY thing that can be had from a serial number is the manufacturer could see it and have a demographic for where their kit ends up, thats it.

Title1 stuff could have a claim made of it being stolen property but thats pretty far fetched and I have never seen it done.

Some people have said because they don't want the .gov to know what they own but then they post pictures of their whole collection and their safes thinking that their screenname protects them from people knowing who they are or where they reside.

I know of 2 gun owners that have been robbed because of the pictures of their safes and collections posted on ARFCOM. Robbers had everything they needed to know, safe brand layout and what it housed inside.

[delta9mda]

what bender said

[WhisperFan]

Need to know .....

I could tell you (show you the SN) - but then ..... well - you know!

[ScottNC]

On Title2 stuff its because they want to be cool or something, there is NOTHING that can be done against you. You have the Form4 proof of ownership, noone can claim its theirs or stolen etc...

Seems to me like just good sense as apposed to "Just Cool", there are lots scams on the Internet, why post it, would you for no apparent reason post the VIN of your car?

[SRM]

my sn has a stamp that goes with it. my stamp has my address on it. not gonna see my sn.

[OJB4]

I say "Better safe than sorry".....why put yourself in the position where somebody could even claim that that item is not for you? Even if it's a far fetched claim you'll still end up having to prove that the item is yours. Sounds like more hassle than it's worth to me. Of course I haven't even figured out how to post pics on this site yet so I haven't had to worry about it just yet.....LOL Blacking out the serial number will be a whole nother problem......ha ha It's sad that I've gotten this lazy with computers since I graduated college.

[renegade]

This might be a stupid question but why do people blackout or photoshop the serial numbers when they post photos. I see this on lots of class 3 photos as well as other gun photos. What bad stuff can happen if someone sees the serial number of your can or pac-lite? Thanks in advance for any comments.

Well this is what happened to a friend of mine.

3 ATF agents showed up at his house demanding to see forms/guns for his existing NFA.

Seems someone told them anonymously he had illegal stuff and since they correctly ID'd the SN of existing stuff it gave the tip huge credibility.

[Libertarian_Geek]

This might be a stupid question but why do people blackout or photoshop the serial numbers when they post photos. I see this on lots of class 3 photos as well as other gun photos. What bad stuff can happen if someone sees the serial number of your can or pac-lite? Thanks in advance for any comments.

Well this is what happened to a friend of mine.

3 ATF agents showed up at his house demanding to see forms/guns for his existing NFA.

Seems someone told them anonymously he had illegal stuff and since they correctly ID'd the SN of existing stuff it gave the tip huge credibility.

Even as an unconfirmed anecdote, that's good enough reason for me to (continue to) do a simple photo-smudge over the SN.

[Bendersquint]

I would love confirmation/verification on this, I believe there is more to this story than a picture posted on the interweb.

[T_Tactical]

my sn has a stamp that goes with it. my stamp has my address on it. not gonna see my sn.

So exactly how easy is it for someone to access ATF's NFA data so they can run your serial number to locate your stamp so they can get your address just to come to your house and rob you? I've seen the Mission Impossible movies, is it as easy as they make it out to be or is it a little more difficult than what even Ethan Hunt can pull off?

[T_Tactical]

This might be a stupid question but why do people blackout or photoshop the serial numbers when they post photos. I see this on lots of class 3 photos as well as other gun photos. What bad stuff can happen if someone sees the serial number of your can or pac-lite? Thanks in advance for any comments.

Well this is what happened to a friend of mine.

3 ATF agents showed up at his house demanding to see forms/guns for his existing NFA.

Seems someone told them anonymously he had illegal stuff and since they correctly ID'd the SN of existing stuff it gave the tip huge credibility.

If they were given the serial number and they verified it, wouldn't that also have verified that it was legal to own?

[Bendersquint]

This might be a stupid question but why do people blackout or photoshop the serial numbers when they post photos. I see this on lots of class 3 photos as well as other gun photos. What bad stuff can happen if someone sees the serial number of your can or pac-lite? Thanks in advance for any comments.

Well this is what happened to a friend of mine.

3 ATF agents showed up at his house demanding to see forms/guns for his existing NFA.

Seems someone told them anonymously he had illegal stuff and since they correctly ID'd the SN of existing stuff it gave the tip huge credibility.

If they were given the serial number and they verified it, wouldn't that also have verified that it was legal to own?

Sure would have, and they wouldn't have sent 3 agents out to verify, just one maybe 2. There has to be more to the story. You don't get the ATF to check on the actual owner based off an anonymous call or picture.

[Libertarian_Geek]

This might be a stupid question but why do people blackout or photoshop the serial numbers when they post photos. I see this on lots of class 3 photos as well as other gun photos. What bad stuff can happen if someone sees the serial number of your can or pac-lite? Thanks in advance for any comments.

Well this is what happened to a friend of mine.

3 ATF agents showed up at his house demanding to see forms/guns for his existing NFA.

Seems someone told them anonymously he had illegal stuff and since they correctly ID'd the SN of existing stuff it gave the tip huge credibility.

If they were given the serial number and they verified it, wouldn't that also have verified that it was legal to own?

That's not the concept. The idea is that if someone salts a turd with enough verifiable truth, someone will eventually eat it. Metaphor aside, it's this:

Person A tells the ATF that he saw Person B with a full-auto SCAR at the range. Person A states to the authorities that he doesn't know the true identity of Person B just that the met them at the range (also a lie), but the serial # of his silencer was XYZ. Person A also says that Person B has another silencer that he didn't talk much about. Serial # ABC.


In reality, Person A is a punk and is pissed at Person B. He's never actually met person B, but got butthurt by him on the interwebs. Person A got Person B's serial number (XYZ) off of a pic of his on the internet. Just for good measure, he also threw in a serial number "XYZ" that had been reported stolen on another site by Person C (who posted pics).

My scenario is all made up. But why put that information out there if there's no useful reason for it to be on the internet? It's easy enough to scrub the pic before you
post.

As far as the theory that 100% of government employees don't want to waste taxpayer's time and dime... I'm not going to bank on it.

[renegade]

I would love confirmation/verification on this, I believe there is more to this story than a picture posted on the interweb.

I can confirm it. The irony is this happened the day we were going shooting with some Feds, including a BATFE agent. So when the 3 agents knocked on the door, his wife said, "some BATFE agents are here to see you". He thought it was the group we were shooting with. Then he thought it was a joke. He had to call the agent we were going shooting with to make sure it was not a prank and it was real.

I should add it is not known how the SN was obtained, current thought is it was obtained from being seen on the firing line of a recent shoot.

[renegade]

If they were given the serial number and they verified it, wouldn't that also have verified that it was legal to own?

Yes, that is why he did not go to jail.

Post your address though if you have no problem with 3 BATFE agents showing up at your house at random demanding to see your forms.

[T_Tactical]

If they were given the serial number and they verified it, wouldn't that also have verified that it was legal to own?

Yes, that is why he did not go to jail.

Post your address though if you have no problem with 3 BATFE agents showing up at your house at random demanding to see your forms.

So a serial number verifying that a gun was legally owned was worth making a trip by not 1, not 2 but 3 agents to see the gun with the serial number on it that was already verified? Yeah makes sense to me. I know if I got an anonymous tip from someone who said another man had an illegal gun and was given a serial number which checked out to be legally owned by that individual I would definitely send 3 agents out to look at the same gun with the serial numbers on it. Sounds like BS to me.

But I don't need to post my address because it's not needed, apparently all you need is a serial number of a legally owned gun to have 3 agents come to my house..lol I have gun pics all over the internet and never blocked out a number so knock yourself out and have fun.

Then again Ethan Hunt might sneak into the ATF office and access the NFA records to search for my suppressor serial number so he can find my address and come break in and rob me.

You're never suppose to wrap the tinfoil so tightly around your head. Simply lining a ball cap with it is sufficient.

[Libertarian_Geek]

If they were given the serial number and they verified it, wouldn't that also have verified that it was legal to own?

Yes, that is why he did not go to jail.

Post your address though if you have no problem with 3 BATFE agents showing up at your house at random demanding to see your forms.

So a serial number verifying that a gun was legally owned was worth making a trip by not 1, not 2 but 3 agents to see the gun with the serial number on it that was already verified? Yeah makes sense to me. I know if I got an anonymous tip from someone who said another man had an illegal gun and was given a serial number which checked out to be legally owned by that individual I would definitely send 3 agents out to look at the same gun with the serial numbers on it. Sounds like BS to me.

But I don't need to post my address because it's not needed, apparently all you need is a serial number of a legally owned gun to have 3 agents come to my house..lol I have gun pics all over the internet and never blocked out a number so knock yourself out and have fun.

Then again Ethan Hunt might sneak into the ATF office and access the NFA records to search for my suppressor serial number so he can find my address and come break in and rob me.

You're never suppose to wrap the tinfoil so tightly around your head. Simply lining a ball cap with it is sufficient.

As far as gun serial numbers go, I'd be cautious. Feel free to further mock those who choose to err on the side of caution. The last thing that I need is for some guy defrauding his insurance company after a break-in to claim that the serial numbers on my guns are his and that they've been stolen.

[Bendersquint]

You're never suppose to wrap the tinfoil so tightly around your head. Simply lining a ball cap with it is sufficient.

Can't agree more. Way too many people used the entire box of tin foil when making their hats!

[Libertarian_Geek]

Maybe you guys are right.

Maybe I have wasted the 1 minutes and 29 seconds total time off of my life that it took to blur out the serial off of those 20 or so pictures that I ever posted of a gun's serial numbers.

Thank you for helping me overcome the phobia that was robbing my life of such precious moments (that likely otherwise be filled with posts laden with sarcasm and metasarcasm.)

[T_Tactical]

As far as gun serial numbers go, I'd be cautious. Feel free to further mock those who choose to err on the side of caution. The last thing that I need is for some guy defrauding his insurance company after a break-in to claim that the serial numbers on my guns are his and that they've been stolen.

I'm not mocking anyone for hiding their serial numbers if that's what they want to do. I'm just saying it's rather far fetched that a common thief can access NFA files to search for a specific tax stamp to get someone's address and steal a gun. If someone is capable of doing that, he could search the files to find the most extensive and profitable collections and make one or two really big hits instead of going to all the trouble to steal one suppressor that he saw in a picture on a gun forum.

Why would someone use a serial number off a gun they saw online as an insurance claim? If the insurance company payed off on the claim without running the numbers then a person could make up random numbers for a claim. If the insurance company did run the numbers it would come back on who really owned it and if it's in your name and in your possession then they aren't coming to your house to take it from you and give it to someone who lied on their insurance claim. You'll have to come up with a more plausible what if scenario.

[T_Tactical]

Maybe you guys are right.

Maybe I have wasted the 1 minutes and 29 seconds total time off of my life that it took to blur out the serial off of those 20 or so pictures that I ever posted of a gun's serial numbers.

Thank you for helping me overcome the phobia that was robbing my life of such precious moments (that likely otherwise be filled with posts laden with sarcasm and metasarcasm.)

I'm calling BS on this as well. I think it took more than 1 min 29 secs total for you to blue the number on 20 photos.

You're welcome.

[renegade]

If they were given the serial number and they verified it, wouldn't that also have verified that it was legal to own?

Yes, that is why he did not go to jail.

Post your address though if you have no problem with 3 BATFE agents showing up at your house at random demanding to see your forms.

So a serial number verifying that a gun was legally owned was worth making a trip by not 1, not 2 but 3 agents to see the gun with the serial number on it that was already verified? Yeah makes sense to me. I know if I got an anonymous tip from someone who said another man had an illegal gun and was given a serial number which checked out to be legally owned by that individual I would definitely send 3 agents out to look at the same gun with the serial numbers on it. Sounds like BS to me.

Dude I was summarizing the story down to 2 lines, not giving the entire Agent Case File. You have jumped to about 500 incorrect conclusions.

[T_Tactical]

Dude I was summarizing the story down to 2 lines, not giving the entire Agent Case File. You have jumped to about 500 incorrect conclusions.

I can only go by the info you gave. If it wasn't that simple, why did you make it sound like it was?

Then again you said the serial number was gotten from someone at a shoot. So aside from blurring your serial numbers in internet photos, you also somehow hide the serial numbers when you're at a shoot or public range too? Do you not let others shoot your guns? Do you forbid people at a range to look at your guns if they come over to talk? Or are you saying that basically even though you try and take precautions that anyone could still get your serial number and call the ATF with a false claim even without you posting any pics of your guns at all?

Since I jumped to about 500 incorrect conclusion maybe you'll be so kind as to be more specific next time.

[Libertarian_Geek]

Maybe you guys are right.

Maybe I have wasted the 1 minutes and 29 seconds total time off of my life that it took to blur out the serial off of those 20 or so pictures that I ever posted of a gun's serial numbers.

Thank you for helping me overcome the phobia that was robbing my life of such precious moments (that likely otherwise be filled with posts laden with sarcasm and metasarcasm.)

I'm calling BS on this as well. I think it took more than 1 min 29 secs total for you to blue the number on 20 photos.

You're welcome.

Highlight/Select
Image>Effects>Pixilize
CTRL+S

Doesn't take more than about 4.5 seconds. I crop the pictures anyway (select, then ctrl+y) so I already have them open.