TundraSV on SigP250

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tonyv51
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TundraSV on SigP250

Post by tonyv51 »

Hi, I'm TonyV51 from Vegas, new to this forum, but a member of other Sig forums. I wanted to repost my silencer experience with others who may be looking for this info as I was a year ago. I wanted to attach one photo, but I don't see how to upload it on this site, of if I even can. But here goes:

Well it's been 8 months waiting to finally pick up my "legal" suppressor (silencer) for a 9mm P250C/TB (Threaded Barrel). I bought the Gemtech Tundra SV (short version) which is 6.5 inches long with the Sig LID booster attached. With the $200 ATF stamp and all, this cost over $1100 at my local licensed gun store. I noticed that Sig recently came out with its own 9mm suppressor for $600 (not including tax and ATF stamp), but it runs "wet", and I had already paid for my Tundra, which runs "dry". I also moved my residence and had to file an ATF form 5320.20. I keep my original ATF stamped permit in a safe but must carry a copy of it with the silencer.

I own two 9mm Sig P250s, the C/TB and SC. I like the ability to interchange parts to customize and back each other up. I'm a combat vet who values loaded magazines (just try to reload a mag in a real shoot out). So I bought an extra SC grip (with rail) so both my 250s load all my 20 clips. We have two shooters at home, so that's 10 mags each.

The Tundra manual recommends 147 grain Speer or Hornady premium ammo. I went to my firing range to informally test it. No cameras or sound equipment allowed, plus I had to wear ear plugs while a dozen other shooters blasted away. Unscientifically, it sounded much quieter, though not "ping" silent, yet hard to aim accurately past 20 feet. My normal 6 inch target groupings expanded to 12 inches, so I may have to let potential assailants get closer, which may reduce multi-taps with that long pull DAO trigger. The silencer got smoking hot after only one 17 round clip. Gemtech does not recommend shooting consecutive clips without cooling it off, which can take awhile; but I'll burn through it if I had to.

The Tundra SV does disassemble the tube and aluminum baffles for cleaning. Gemtech recommends lightly brushing and shaking out any built up residue, without lubrication or "wetting agent." When I unscrewed the tube, I also had to swab out several sticky hard carbon particles with gun cleaning fluid, and this was brand new after only 50 rounds of "clean premium" ammo.

I've (tried to) attach one photo of my P250 with the 9mm Tundra SV mounted on the C/TB barrel slide on an SC railed frame, with a 17 round mag inserted using 2 rubber X-grip adapters (all clips work without adapters too). Three other clips (left to right) are 12, 10 and 15 rounds for concealed carry (CCW). The middle 10 round clip is as long as the 15, but I bought a couple in case local laws limit my CCW clip capacity. I ordered all mags and X-grips from TopGunSupply.com, and 147 grain HP ammo from BulkAmmo.com. Also considered Fiocchi 158 grain, but stuck to Gemtech recommendations.

I considered adding a small rail laser/light combo, but good ones cost $200, clutter and overweigh a silenced barrel balance, require fresh batteries, can betray your position, and unnecessary in short defensive bursts, so I'm not convinced it's useful for home defense.

I previously posted a lot of info about the pitfalls of ordering a silencer. In brief, you probably won't save any money online compared to buying from your local licensed dealer. In fact you may pay much more in hidden costs, scams and FFL transfer fees. I prefer an established store to go to (or sue) if I'm dissatisfied. I don't buy many firearms, so I did not form a legal "trust", which can add hundreds more to the cost if you're only buying a few items. Damn expensive though, over $3,000 in the two Sig P250 pistols (@ $500 each), plus 20 mags (mostly 17 rounds because all P250 mags cost @ $50), one silencer, plus minor CCW accessories. 147 grain premium HP ammo is $1 a pop. Not a lot of target practice at those prices, but I don't want to wear down my gear with cheap gritty ammo for when I may really need it, hopefully never.

That's everything I know about my silenced P250 so far, so I can't answer any technical questions. Mine is admittedly a makeshift configuration, but for home defense, I prefer it over a shotgun or AR-15, which have no CCW versatility and too daunting for some to fire under stress. You can configure your P250 however you like.

Finally, if I could do it all over again, I'd buy a new Sig 9mm SD suppressor for my P250. It's $200 cheaper, 2 inches shorter, lighter, and quiet enough wet or dry for one life-or-death clip. Good luck.
Last edited by tonyv51 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bendersquint
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by Bendersquint »

Good write up.

Couple things to note.........

-The baffles are non-anodized(raw) aluminum, they are not titanium. Perhaps you got a titanium blast baffle but int he least the remainder of the stack is raw aluminum.

The one that we had in the shop for servicing was ALL aluminum baffles.

-The Sig SD 9mm is not for sale, so why would you want a can that doesn't exist? How do you know it is better?
tonyv51
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by tonyv51 »

I appreciate your reply and correction. I checked Gemtech specs and the Tundra SV baffles are aircraft grade aluminum. I've researched so many suppressors I got confused. Considering it takes 8 months or longer to get an ATF stamp for any silencer, I believe one can order a Sig suppressor to be delivered in a similar time frame. They are listed in the 2013 Sig catalog. These days, any suppressor or 9mm ammo is a commodity. I don't think the Sig suppressor is better than the Tundra SV. But now that I've seen my silencer is good for only one magazine before becoming too hot to handle safely, I would've preferred to buy a cheaper, shorter, lighter one for home defense because maximum noise reduction is not my primary concern then. A silencer is wasted in a noisy public firing range, but we have to practice shooting it. Why buy a silencer at all, or threaded barrel, or laser light, or any accessories? Partially it's being macho, big boy's toys. But I'm not the only shooter in my home. My wife and I both prefer shooting a silenced pistol because it feels less nerve racking to us in what would already be a pressure situation. We just hope the damn thing shoots straight, doesn't jam, or scare our family and neighbors witless from the blasts. Tundra SV was my choice, last year; but new products keep coming. I wrote, and meant, today, I'd prefer the cheaper, smaller Sig 9mm SD suppressor specifically for my Sig P250 for personal home defense, not tactical black ops missions. People will decide what they need for themselves. But I will edit my post to correct the baffle information. Thanks again.
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Bendersquint
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by Bendersquint »

tonyv51 wrote:I appreciate your reply and correction. I checked Gemtech specs and the Tundra SV baffles are aircraft grade aluminum. I've researched so many suppressors I got confused. Considering it takes 8 months or longer to get an ATF stamp for any silencer, I believe one can order a Sig suppressor to be delivered in a similar time frame. They are listed in the 2013 Sig catalog. These days, any suppressor or 9mm ammo is a commodity. I don't think the Sig suppressor is better than the Tundra SV. But now that I've seen my silencer is good for only one magazine before becoming too hot to handle safely, I would've preferred to buy a cheaper, shorter, lighter one for home defense because maximum noise reduction is not my primary concern then. A silencer is wasted in a noisy public firing range, but we have to practice shooting it. Why buy a silencer at all, or threaded barrel, or laser light, or any accessories? Partially it's being macho, big boy's toys. But I'm not the only shooter in my home. My wife and I both prefer shooting a silenced pistol because it feels less nerve racking to us in what would already be a pressure situation. We just hope the damn thing shoots straight, doesn't jam, or scare our family and neighbors witless from the blasts. Tundra SV was my choice, last year; but new products keep coming. I wrote, and meant, today, I'd prefer the cheaper, smaller Sig 9mm SD suppressor specifically for my Sig P250 for personal home defense, not tactical black ops missions. People will decide what they need for themselves. But I will edit my post to correct the baffle information. Thanks again.
Sig suppressors ARE NOT FOR SALE just like the MPX.

Something is wrong with your can if after 1 magazine it is too hot to handle. :shock:



Are you really going to even fire a magazine in a home defense scenario? NO.
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M40A1308M
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by M40A1308M »

I have heard one SIG suppressor at a Demo at a base and was not impressed it may not be the one you are referencing. But think about it there are company's out there that are doing nothing but suppressors and SIG only will devote a small amount of its resources to build and design a suppressor that only has to meet Govt. spec. Good example is the KAC cans they are nothing compared to a commercial can but yet people search them out a waste big money because the said" IT's KAC and the Military uses them and they have to be the best" WRONG there loud and are crappy. So before you run off to buy the latest and greatest please go compare it in person with other available commercial cans.

And if you want to use a can for home defense do understand you will more than likely bring the wrong attention to your self and lose the item in the proses. Plus when a jury hears SILENCER in today's world your simple self defense trial may end up not simple at all.
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by Bendersquint »

M40A1308M wrote:I have heard one SIG suppressor at a Demo at a base and was not impressed it may not be the one you are referencing. But think about it there are company's out there that are doing nothing but suppressors and SIG only will devote a small amount of its resources to build and design a suppressor that only has to meet Govt. spec. Good example is the KAC cans they are nothing compared to a commercial can but yet people search them out a waste big money because the said" IT's KAC and the Military uses them and they have to be the best" WRONG there loud and are crappy. So before you run off to buy the latest and greatest please go compare it in person with other available commercial cans.

And if you want to use a can for home defense do understand you will more than likely bring the wrong attention to your self and lose the item in the proses. Plus when a jury hears SILENCER in today's world your simple self defense trial may end up not simple at all.
+1 on all accounts.
tonyv51
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by tonyv51 »

I respect all your opinions, bit since it's my home and family I'm defending, I can make my own choices, as you can make yours. By the way, since you seem so adamant that the Sig 9mm SD suppressor is not available at all, I called Sig directly (603) 772-2302 (press #3 for Customer Service), and was told they will be for sale to the public through Class 3 dealers "soon," whatever that means. No one can buy any suppressor and get it right away. I don't want to get into arguments in this forum because no one knows everything, especially me. But at least I put my info out there for those seeking options and they can decide if it applies to them or not. As for my TundraSV being defective because it's too hot to handle after one 17 round mag, please shoot your own silencer then grab it and tell us if it burns your skin or not. Sure, I'll keep firing if I have to, but no one can predict how many mags you may need in a situation. As for court, I'll worry about that if I survive to get there. Shooting an armed intruder in my home with a silencer is no legal concern to me. What do you own silencers for anyway if not self defense?
Last edited by tonyv51 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by Bendersquint »

tonyv51 wrote:I respect all your opinions, bit since it's my home and family I'm defending, I can make my own choices, as you can make yours.
Wow, welcome to the forum. :?
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by doubloon »

If I dump a mag of range fodder through a suppressor very quickly it certainly gets warm but I can't say I'm shooting my best when shooting that fast. I'm not sure I'd call it too hot to handle after a magazine of well placed shots but it's certainly warm.

I think technically -B- is correct that the SD is "not available" ... "available soon" is not the same as "they're for sale now". It may seem like a minor technicality but until you see them for sale somewhere there is no guarantee the product won't be canceled and thus ... never available. "Available soon" == "not available until it is available".

I primarily own silencers to increase the the pleasure of my shooting experience when outdoor plinking and generally having fun. I have a subcompact suppressor I sometimes keep on the house gun but would NEVER even consider using it for concealed carry. If I ended up using the suppressor in a HD situation I fully expect to lose it and if I end up in court I fully expect the need to fight to win a jury over and dispel the negative impressions that exist in the minds of the average citizen where suppressors are concerned. If you don't think most people don't have a negative impression of suppressors you're living in a bubble.

I think you'll find you get out of forums like the Sig forums or the Glock forums or ARF that a lot of people are much more conservative with SD talk and armament. Sure lights are tacticool but a lot of folks believe they're about as useful on a handgun as a bayonet. Also, a suppressor hanging off the end of a SD handgun is good leverage for the BG in CQB (<- cool acronyms added in for funsies).

As far as letting your "potential assailants" get closer than 20 feet goes ... you must have a really big fucking house! The biggest room in my house it about 15 feet across and if we're both in it then I'm a hella lot closer than 20 feet.
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by telero »

doubloon wrote:If I ended up using the suppressor in a HD situation I fully expect to lose it and if I end up in court I fully expect the need to fight to win a jury over and dispel the negative impressions that exist in the minds of the average citizen where suppressors are concerned. If you don't think most people don't have a negative impression of suppressors you're living in a bubble.
I would like to see that an example in a courtroom. Shoot off 5 rounds suppressed in a courtroom (that is likely less confined than your house) and then ask if they'd like to hear it unsuppressed.

doubloon wrote: Also, a suppressor hanging off the end of a SD handgun is good leverage for the BG in CQB (<- cool acronyms added in for funsies).
Those are initialisms, not acronyms! :wink:
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by doubloon »

Personally I don't want to see it in a courtroom, especially not first hand. I don't know of any cases where a suppressor was used in SD/HD. I'll look for one later. I seem to recall somebody talking about some SOT somewhere defending his shop with a NFA weapon.

Initialisms ... acronyms ... who cares! They're tacticool and make the author sound badass and gives the illusion he knows what he's talking about. :mrgreen:

ETA: Foghorn thinks it's a GREAT idea ...
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by tonyv51 »

Well you guys are bringing up court issues related to silencers I never even considered. I appreciate your input. I'll talk to my lawyer and see what he advises because I really don't know how local Vegas laws may apply to this. Is shooting an armed assailant with a silencer worse than a shotgun or AR-15 or non-suppressed gun? All I know is there are a lot of people packing here. And I never suggested carrying a silencer for CCW. Your silencer may get warm, mine got hot and I don't believe it's defective. I do shoot quickly because that's what i practice for. As for the Sig SD suppressor, I really don't care if it's for sale or not because I'm not spending another grand and year buying another silencer. And I didn't spend $3000 for the pleasure of plinking at my noisy public firing range at $1 per shot. For that, I could've gotten a used Sig .22 Mosquito. Plus, what's the size of the rooms in my house have to do with anything? I shared what I had to say and I learned some things from this forum. Thanks and Bye. No more posts from me.
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by doubloon »

tonyv51 wrote:.... Plus, what's the size of the rooms in my house have to do with anything? ,,.
Shooting people from more than 20 feet away was the basis of my comment on the size of the rooms in your house.

I guess maybe you were planning on shooting people more than 20 feet away from you outside? That's something like the distance from one side of the street to the other.
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Re: TundraSV on SigP250

Post by M40A1308M »

I really don't think it will come down to what the "LAW" is and how it is written. It will come down to everybody that they will pick for a jury will think that Silencers are used by "BAD" men in the world. They will remiss to all the TV shows that they have seen and all the gangster stories they know. The jury will not be picked with firearm experts or mostly intelligent people. In fact the more that they don't know the better. But I will tell you the first time the say" Silencer" and they will and won't use the word "Suppressor" and the news media no matter how small all those opinions you want to help you will all but disappear. You will be hung plain and simple.And if you don't have the cash to back it I am fairly curtain you will end up facing a uphill battle not to mention a civil suit that they will win from the family. I the criminal trial doesn't take all your funds that certainly will.

And in a home invasion you want your gun to be the last thing to worry about I have seen tested tried and true suppressed pistols fail. You know that is a extra weight on your barrel and if you limp wrist it at the wrong moment well you know what the out come will be. Unless you are some super spy or black-ops guy LOL that has years of trigger time. And that won't go in your favor at trial either.

I say you do your research and enjoy shooting sports with your family and have safe fun. And if your that worried about family defense MOVE your in the wrong neighborhood.
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