Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

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Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by Fireman1291 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:14 pm

So Dave Saylors with Liberty Suppressors was down in FL and we met up so I could review his suppressors. I reviewed the Chaotic, Mystic, Leonidas, Triumph and Essence. And I will be releasing the reviews in that order once I get through the 17GB of data and edit it all. lol!

Hope you enjoy the video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DQfAIniLgg
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by STL/N.E.R.D.S. » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:32 pm

Nice looking can, interested to see how it works with 5.56 and 7.62x51, I like the profile of this can reminds me of the MK9K short and stubby, we could use more cans like this..
Nice work Dave.

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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by TROOPER » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:18 am

I wish there were more cans styled like this... with more emphasis on the width while simultaneously shortening the overall. With the exception of mostly bolt-actions, there is usually enough gap between the bore and optic to use such a design (unless you need to zero your can at 2 inches). Volume is a benefit, but reducing the rotational inertia by shortening the system OAL is a big plus.

Anyway, that's a great can... that's a great review... and it is NFAtalk's loss that they dinged you out for whatever reason.

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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by rockman96 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:29 am

TROOPER wrote:I wish there were more cans styled like this... with more emphasis on the width while simultaneously shortening the overall. With the exception of mostly bolt-actions, there is usually enough gap between the bore and optic to use such a design (unless you need to zero your can at 2 inches). Volume is a benefit, but reducing the rotational inertia by shortening the system OAL is a big plus.

Anyway, that's a great can... that's a great review... and it is NFAtalk's loss that they dinged you out for whatever reason.
I agree, volume is a good thing. Not sure about the rotational inertia thing... I'm trying to visualize how that would be a considerable factor once the barrel itself is not part of the equation anymore(?).

Regarding suppression level... I've always been of the understanding that with all else being equal, a longer can of less diameter is more effective than a shorter fatter can(?). Either way, there are limits.

This is a very appealing can, especially at that price point, and it appears that suppression is very acceptable. I may be looking at one of these myself.

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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by TROOPER » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:31 pm

rockman96 wrote: I agree, volume is a good thing. Not sure about the rotational inertia thing... I'm trying to visualize how that would be a considerable factor once the barrel itself is not part of the equation anymore(?).
Rotational inertia meaning that if two rifles have the exact same mass, the one that is shorter will swing faster from target to target. I should have said "swing speed", or used some other vernacular ... but it's still 'rotational inertia'.

In a way it's like putting your rifle to an SBR configuration... time to bore-on-target is shorter because it swings faster. It isn't just the weight of the lost barrel, it's the shortening of what get's swung around.

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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by rockman96 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:28 pm

I understand what you are saying now... could also be called a swing radius, i guess.

The word 'rotational' made me think torque, and 'inertia' made me think of the induced effect caused by the projectile spinning through the rifling. I was over thinking it. :lol:

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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by strobro32 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:37 pm

I can not wait for mine to come back! I think I would sell my 8.2" 300 BLK upper if I did not have my Liberty Beer Can...I mean CHAOTIC. :) Sorry Dave, I still love the name chosen by popular choice @ NFATalk.org. :D
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by JasonM » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:52 am

TROOPER wrote:I wish there were more cans styled like this... with more emphasis on the width while simultaneously shortening the overall. With the exception of mostly bolt-actions, there is usually enough gap between the bore and optic to use such a design (unless you need to zero your can at 2 inches). Volume is a benefit, but reducing the rotational inertia by shortening the system OAL is a big plus.

Anyway, that's a great can... that's a great review... and it is NFAtalk's loss that they dinged you out for whatever reason.
The main reason you don't see a ton of cans like this is because in terms of performance, diameter (volume) is no replacement for length and additional baffles. The 'task' of the can is to strip away gas from the bore, you need baffles along the path of the gas to accomplish this. You end up with a can that is heavier for a given length, and not as efficient as a slightly longer one.

Volume inside the can plays a part (why we don't see 1" dia rifle cans), but it's secondary to length.
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by 1slow01Z71 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:27 pm

Very nice I've been looking at this one for a while. Can you give the specs on the rifle itself? Specifically the barrel make, length and the length of the fortis rail.
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by .300WinMag » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:54 pm

JasonM wrote:The main reason you don't see a ton of cans like this is because in terms of performance, diameter (volume) is no replacement for length and additional baffles. The 'task' of the can is to strip away gas from the bore, you need baffles along the path of the gas to accomplish this. You end up with a can that is heavier for a given length, and not as efficient as a slightly longer one.

Volume inside the can plays a part (why we don't see 1" dia rifle cans), but it's secondary to length.

Can we parse that a bit?

Is it possible to create a baffle that has a leading edge (nearest the aperture) that retards the forward movement of the gas, and the remainder of the baffle design to allow the gas to billow or dwell in the baffle as it cools.

Seems to me (and I don't know jack about it) that since the amount of gas is constant, volume is volume if one can control the direction of flow.


Not so much?

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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by JasonM » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:05 pm

.300WinMag wrote:
JasonM wrote:The main reason you don't see a ton of cans like this is because in terms of performance, diameter (volume) is no replacement for length and additional baffles. The 'task' of the can is to strip away gas from the bore, you need baffles along the path of the gas to accomplish this. You end up with a can that is heavier for a given length, and not as efficient as a slightly longer one.

Volume inside the can plays a part (why we don't see 1" dia rifle cans), but it's secondary to length.

Can we parse that a bit?

Is it possible to create a baffle that has a leading edge (nearest the aperture) that retards the forward movement of the gas, and the remainder of the baffle design to allow the gas to billow or dwell in the baffle as it cools.

Seems to me (and I don't know jack about it) that since the amount of gas is constant, volume is volume if one can control the direction of flow.


Not so much?
Volume is volume IF you can get the gas into said volume… and just due to the physics of it, having 7" to "strip away" gas from the bore jet will capture and slow more of that gas than only having 4" to do it.

A SF SOCOM MINI is not as quiet as the 556-RC because of length, not diameter. You could bump the MINI to 2" dia and it would not quiet it down as much as adding length and additional baffle(s).

(This is all not a dig at the Chaotic, but commentary on why we don't see more short fat cans)
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by Emilio » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:24 pm

That can looks sweet! Nice of Liberty to make this. LSU!!!!!
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by bani » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:25 pm

wow, that's a fat can. it's going to make finding accessories / pouches a pain?

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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by strobro32 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:41 am

Mine came with a pouch.
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by a_canadian » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:11 pm

JasonM wrote:Volume is volume IF you can get the gas into said volume… and just due to the physics of it, having 7" to "strip away" gas from the bore jet will capture and slow more of that gas than only having 4" to do it.
Just wondering out loud here, and it's probably been discussed abundantly but I can't seem to find it... but what about the role of bore diameter in all this? As you say, stripping as much gas as possible from the bore is paramount in suppression given similar air volumes. So given that bore alignment is perfectly concentric to the barrel would there not be an advantage, potentially even mitigating the substantial shortening of the can and perhaps reducing the number of baffles, in choking down the bore holes considerably? Of course this would be contingent upon really precise threading/mounting, and also projectile stability (so in .22"LR for example, no Aguila long/heavy subsonic), but by halving the distance from baffle ID to projectile OD it seems the potential for stripping gasses would be sufficient to balance with perhaps a 1/3 shorter can. The shorter can would reduce the risk of baffle strike considerably allowing for tighter bore tolerance.

Just guessing of course. And perhaps the initial jet velocity plays too large a role for this to be practical, with length being necessary for the gasses to slow and begin expanding outward more easily. But if I wanted a short, fat can I'd probably want to go with at least a very tight, symmetrical blast baffle bore to scrub as much pressure away as soon as possible. Am I barking up the wrong tree?

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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by JasonM » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:31 am

a_canadian wrote:
JasonM wrote:Volume is volume IF you can get the gas into said volume… and just due to the physics of it, having 7" to "strip away" gas from the bore jet will capture and slow more of that gas than only having 4" to do it.
Just wondering out loud here, and it's probably been discussed abundantly but I can't seem to find it... but what about the role of bore diameter in all this? As you say, stripping as much gas as possible from the bore is paramount in suppression given similar air volumes. So given that bore alignment is perfectly concentric to the barrel would there not be an advantage, potentially even mitigating the substantial shortening of the can and perhaps reducing the number of baffles, in choking down the bore holes considerably? Of course this would be contingent upon really precise threading/mounting, and also projectile stability (so in .22"LR for example, no Aguila long/heavy subsonic), but by halving the distance from baffle ID to projectile OD it seems the potential for stripping gasses would be sufficient to balance with perhaps a 1/3 shorter can. The shorter can would reduce the risk of baffle strike considerably allowing for tighter bore tolerance.

Just guessing of course. And perhaps the initial jet velocity plays too large a role for this to be practical, with length being necessary for the gasses to slow and begin expanding outward more easily. But if I wanted a short, fat can I'd probably want to go with at least a very tight, symmetrical blast baffle bore to scrub as much pressure away as soon as possible. Am I barking up the wrong tree?
Yes, for sure. the tighter you can get the bore, the better the can's performance will be…

BUT- you quickly cross a safe line in terms of tolerance stacking on all your parts and pieces, add in the variability in ammo itself and the tighter you get the bore, the more inevitable a baffle strike becomes.

I don't the think the cost to reliability and safety would overcome any performance benefit.. and additionally, if that performance benefit gained from the shrinking bore would be enough to "compensate" for the reduced length/number of baffles...
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by JasonM » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:34 am

Additionally- sorry to clog the thread with this theoretical stuff Dave. I'm sure the Chaotic is good at what it sets out to do.
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by strobro32 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:11 pm

My Beer Can a.k.a. "The Chaotic" is one bad ass can.
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Seriously bad ass.
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by JasonM » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:41 pm

looks sharp
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by STL/N.E.R.D.S. » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:57 pm

Very very nice!!

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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by Emilio » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:11 am

Sweet. :o
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by TROOPER » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:55 pm

JasonM wrote:Volume inside the can plays a part (why we don't see 1" dia rifle cans), but it's secondary to length.
Is it possible to have the same number of baffles stacked closer together to get the same results? Then it would be the same number of "low-pressure" zones that the exiting gas would have to pass through to exit.

... and I already know it's not that simple, or someone would've done this already. So maybe my question should've been, "Why doesn't it work as well as I want to have the same number of baffles... mumble, mumble, mumble?"

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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by strobro32 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:50 pm

Today the game warden took a loooong look at my 8.2" Noveske/Chaotic combo. I think I'm going to start asking for a commission from Dave. :)
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by JasonM » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:38 am

TROOPER wrote:
JasonM wrote:Volume inside the can plays a part (why we don't see 1" dia rifle cans), but it's secondary to length.
Is it possible to have the same number of baffles stacked closer together to get the same results? Then it would be the same number of "low-pressure" zones that the exiting gas would have to pass through to exit.

... and I already know it's not that simple, or someone would've done this already. So maybe my question should've been, "Why doesn't it work as well as I want to have the same number of baffles... mumble, mumble, mumble?"
you did answer your question essentially with the "it's not that simple"…

You've got an extremely fast moving cone of expanding gas, and the baffles need to 'intercept' this gas. just having more of them over the same distance won't put them in position to grab and redirect any more gas. Having a handful more baffles for a given design can make it a little quieter (m4-2000 mod8 versus mod6), but those baffles also do take up volume, and keep adding them and eventually, you'll start really hurting performance (and weight).

there's also a simpler aspect of why the can's length improves performance- and that's that the gas is fast, but slows down/loses energy pretty quickly, so the further it gets from the muzzle, the slower, cooler, and "quieter" it is. Cover up as much of this process with a can as possible, and what makes it out the end of the can will be less noise.
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Re: Review: Liberty Suppressors Chaotic

Post by Fireman1291 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:29 am

My Chaotic is shipping on a F3 this week. Now I need to build a SBR 300BLK upper……

What are your specs Strobro?
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