Tac 65 Review and CCF coolant Review

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Debo18
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Tac 65 Review and CCF coolant Review

Post by Debo18 »

I wrote this review for the NFA forum on www.rimfirecentral.com



Hey guys. Got some feedback on a couple of items. First is the TAC65 22lr suppressor from Tactical Innovations. After that, the new Suppressor Coolant from CCF.

TAC65 is an all aluminum 22LR silencer which is thread mount (muzzle can). It is 1.080" OD by 6". 1/2"X28TPI threads and weighs 4.2 oz. I bought this can as a combo with a Walther P22, thread adapter, and thread protector. Price- $300 total (has since gone up in price by $69 but still a bargain). First impressions, the machining is impecable. Smooth lines, beautiful fit and tight. Finish is hard glossy black annodized with lazer ingraving. Very light, at 4.2 oz it is even lighter than my titanium Abraxas 9mm can from AWC. Good companion for the P22 as it does not change the balance for the worse. It feels level in the hand when mounted on the P22 with laser module on the lower rail. Suppressor can be taken down for cleaning as both end caps unscrew. 5 Aluminum CNC machined "K" baffles fill up the inside. They were easy to push out as well as easy to reinstall on assembly.

Suppression- Nothing short of fantastic. Quieter than any pellet gun I have owned. Quieter than car door gently shutting. When shot at distance, the bullet impacting a phone book was louder to shooter and bystander than report from weapon or cycling of the action. It does have some first round pop that is noticed but doesn't seem excessive. Ammo that I used in the pistol was Remington Golden Bullet High Velocity HP, and CCI high velocity which both stayed subsonic. P22 cycled flawlessly with the suppressor as I think it increased back pressure (If you only knew my P22!). On 10/22 with 18" threaded BBl it was more quiet than the pistol. Hard to tell because the action noise is so close to your face. To bystander, the bullet hitting phone book was louder than the report or action of the rifle. Ammo used in rifle was Remington Subsonic Hollow Point. Accuracy of the rifle did not seem to change as it was still getting ragged hole groups at 25 yds from shaky rest.

Summary- I was very pleased with this product and feel like it was worth every penny and probably a few more. Took can down for cleaning and wiped out lead crust and carbon. Easily reassembled and ready for more. All in all, I give it two big thumbs up.

Addendum- It has been two years since I wrote that review and I have a couple of new things to add. First, I still love the suppressor. The price has gone up a bit since I bought mine but I still think that it is a good deal. As well, I think that the presence of a quality can at this price has influenced the market as most manufacturers have a similiarly priced product for .22lr. Other observations are that it has become nearly impossible for me to get apart. I had some extended shooting sessions where I put a few thousand rounds between the last cleaning. Because the finish is so smooth and nice my strapwrench will not hold tight enough to unscrew the endcaps. I believe if it was a matte, guncote, molycoat style finish it would be alot easier. I have sent my can back to Craig as he has a new improved baffle stack that should reduce even more of the first round pop. I am anxiously awaiting its return. I will post when it gets back and I get to test it again.


CCF COOLANT

CCF suppressor coolant. Price is around $21 bucks for 8 ounce flip top bottle. This is what the company, CCF, claims- accent is mine because I will discuss these points later.

1) 3dB+ quieter than water when used as water and injected or introduced into a suppressor. As dB are logarithmic, the noise or sound energy reduction represented by 3 dB is approximately 25%.

2) Water, as a coolant, generally lasts for 8 - 12 shots before the subject suppressor has to be replenished. Our CCF Suppressor Coolant®, because it is unaffected by heat or pressure, and has a "clinging" quality, resists migrating out of the can with the gas pressure pulse like water does, lasts 70 - 90 shots before needing replenishment or recharging 3) Our CCF Suppressor Coolant®, as it doesn't burn or carbonize, also does not smoke or give off a marker signal to identify a shooter's location, which is an important feature for a tactical (military or law enforcement) user.

4) Our CCF Suppressor Coolant® also has an additional quality that prevents carbon particles from baking to or attaching to the rear side of the baffles in a user's suppressor. That build up of carbon on the baffles inhibits (or insulates) baffles from accepting heat and thus robbing them of some of the efficiency of their design. Our coolant actually makes the suppressor extremely easy to clean, with Naptha, MEK or mineral spirits, carbon in the can just flushes out.

5) Our CCF Suppressor Coolant® doesn't evaporate or dry out - a user can charge his suppressor with our coolant 2 weeks, 2 months or even 2 years prior to use and the coolant material will still be in his suppressor, ready for use without any loss of efficiency or duration (70 - 90 shots). For those concerned about the "corrosive" effects of water in an aluminum or stainless can, our coolant is not H2O based. The CCF Suppressor Coolant® will help prevent that corrosion, if the user stores their can charged with our coolant. Our coolant is not H2O based.


Now that sounds like a tall order and my thoughts were skeptical at best. I was having trouble believing how a substance that was QUIETER than using water- read more efficient -could stay in the can 10 times LONGER than water. After all, the cooling of the gases is how the sacrificial ablative lets the wet can make up for less volume. So if that material is still there after 70 shots, how could it be cooling the gases down. My gut feeling proved to be correct. Used in my Titanium AWC Abraxas 9mm pistol silencer mounted on Beretta 92FS pistol the material proved to be woefully inadequate. It would last about 8 to 9 shots before the noise level started getting almost too loud for naked ears. Water usually lasts for 6 to 8 shots and Lithium grease lasts about 1 15 round mag and a half. My experience 1200+ suppressed rounds down range in that pistol is that water tends to be quieter than the grease because it is cools the gases more efficiently but does not last as long. The grease is almost as quiet but lasts more than twice as long as the water. The CCF coolant was not as quiet as the water or the grease and is was gone lickity split. There was no residue at all from the CCF coolant, it just vanished.

After my first suppressor trials on my TAC65 rimfire suppressor I experimented with the coolant in it. I loaded the suppressor per directions and when I started firing, I noticed that it seemed a little quieter than shooting it dry. After about 30 more rounds it seemed to get louder but there was still CCF coolant dripping out of the end. I kept shooting for another 60 to 100 rounds, disassembled the can and to my suprise, the entire first baffle was clogged up with a CCF coolant, lead, carbon slurry. It looked like grey clay and had completely filled up the space in the first baffle. I think that this is why it was getting louder and less efficient. I cleaned all of the gunk out as well as the carbon that had attached itself to the rear of the baffles and upon reassembly, performed just as it had before.

Needless to say I am going to take up CCF on their money back guarantee offer but I am also going to take a stab at what I think the problem is. I believe that their product might work better in another application. I was lead to believe by their product literature that this substance would be what I needed in a "wet" pistol suppressor. Wet pistol suppressors use the sacrificial ablative media whether it be grease or water or Diet Dr. Pepper to cool gases and make up for their more compact size. You can get good suppression out of a dry suppressor but it usually has to be considerably larger sometimes hiding the gunsights or creating the need for a recoil booster to make tilt bbl action cycle properly- Trade offs. I don't think that this product will ever work well in a "wet" pistol can that depends on this cooling effect to function properly. However, I do think it might have a use in a "dry" can to increase the suppression levels for a few shots. These would have the heat and pressure necessary to evaporate the material so that it would not collect (like it did in my rimfire can) but the suppressor would not depend on the coolant for it suppressive functions to work. All in all I give it a thumbs down in the two applications that I used it for and am sending back for a refund. They are very nice folks by the way and this review is no way a slight to them, just commenting on my experience with the product.


Damian McKeon (Debo)

Rob- Great job on the website and the forum. THANKS!!!
"It's the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs"
dale

your abraxas can preformance

Post by dale »

very interested to read your informative post. couple of questions... when using water in your abraxas, after 8 shots,could you just dip the can into a water jug and shake it out or do you have to unthread the can and apply water from the rear? How is Point Of Impact shift? Heard bad things about it. Test fired one the other day but at the time only shot for sound reduction and then only one mag full using the supplied lithium grease. time was limited and wasnt able to do the full test I wanted to do.
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Debo18
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Abraxas

Post by Debo18 »

You can dunk it in a bucket and shake it out or you can pour a bit down the ejection port and shake it out. Water is easy that way. I built a neat little tool for putting the grease in though. It is alot better than the syringe they send with it. You should take it off to spin grease back into it as you want to check for obstruction prior to reattaching the suppressor. POI shift- OH MY HOLY LORD! Great can and awesome suppression in a super small package but make sure you are close to the target. Mine moves it a foot at 7 yards!!! I haven't figured out why yet and was thinking for long time about sending it back to AWC. It does well on 22 rifles and adequate on 9mm AR15 carbine too. Hope this helps and we should probably start a new thread if you want to discuss the Abraxas more. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Debo
"It's the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs"
David Hineline

Take Apart

Post by David Hineline »

When you get your Wheatly can back first disassemble and coat the baffles and threaded end caps with High Temp Copper based thread release agent. It is messy s--t, it is available at auto repair shops and is used for things like exhaust manifold bolts to keep them from siezing, it will keep your can comming apart for ever.
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Post by silencertalk »

Good idea. I would suggest nickel-based for the 5.56mm cans. It has a higher-temp range.
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Debo18
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Wow.

Post by Debo18 »

Man you guys are awesome! I will let you know how it sounds as well.

Debo
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Racer
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Post by Racer »

My experience with the CCF suppressor coolant is that how well it works depends on the design of the suppressor. It does not seem to work well in my pistol suppressors (all dry suppressors) that have a "simple" primary expansion chamber, e.g. the CAC22. In the CAC22 it will reduce the FRP to any noticably extent only for the first 10 round mag. However, in my Paradigm or in my 9mm Omega PC-K2 the increase in suppression seems to last for several (2-3) magazines. The Paradigm and the Omega PC-K2 have more complex primary expansion chambers. My only meter is my ears and I have not read of any formal test on this so consider this as only MHO.

However, the bottom line -- I do not like shooting suppressors wet. I do not like wearing soot nor do I like the coolant running into the action of my gun.
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Re: Take Apart

Post by dtarbox »

David Hineline wrote:When you get your Wheatly can back first disassemble and coat the baffles and threaded end caps with High Temp Copper based thread release agent. It is messy s--t, it is available at auto repair shops and is used for things like exhaust manifold bolts to keep them from siezing, it will keep your can comming apart for ever.
note to self ............. stop at the auto parts store onthe way home.

thanks for the advice
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Post by QuietShootr »

Your experience with your Abraxas mirrors mine with my Archangel III. After four trips back to AWC, and a chop and rebuild, it still will not work on a pistol, (three different pistols, all threaded by AWC.) It works very well on my 77/22, but it seems to be too tight for use on a pistol. I finally gave up and bought an AAC Pilot to use on pistols.
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Post by Tugnut »

What do you mean the Archangel won't work on pistols? You mean that the threads are too tight so that you are unable to completely thread the can onto the barrels of the pistols?
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Post by US1928A1 »

SMOKE CITY. This stuff smokes like a damn train. I wasted my money on it.

They guy offered my money back, but the harm was done. Says nowhere that you cant use it in a 223 suppressor in the ads, but when the package comes it says not to use it.

STAY AWAY FROM CCF's PRODUCTS.
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Post by Ring »

from ar15.com
http://www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/t ... 4&t=239973

CCF Suppressor Coolant "The Smokin' Gun" (Video)
Originally Posted By 1928A1:
I bought a couple of bottles of this stuff after reading about it and how it doesn't smoke in your gun, as per their ad.

This is taken from the ads online and in SAR.
3) Our CCF Suppressor Coolant™, as it does not burn, does not carbonize, or smoke[/size=4], which means no marker signal to identify a shooter's location, which is an important feature for a tactical (military or law enforcement) user.


The FIRST VIDEO is of a Browning Buckmark with 2 shots dry for a reference point.

The SECOND VIDEO is the Browning with 11 rounds of CCI Subsonics with the CCF Coolant added.

The THIRD VIDEO is a full auto M16 with 22 conversion.

The FOURTH VIDEO is another full auto mag dump.

It doesn't smoke at all...[BS]

This stuff smokes worse than anything I have every put into my suppressor.
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Re: Tac 65 Review and CCF coolant Review

Post by ChimeraPrecision »

You do realize this is a 9 year old thread right?
Keep calm, and suppress on
Historian
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Re: Tac 65 Review and CCF coolant Review

Post by Historian »

Mouse Milk!

First ran across this miracle stuff in 1960's.
Very expensive. Then $10.00 for 100cc.
It takes lots of tiny hands to squeeze the drops
out from uncooperative donors.

"Suppresses an added 10 Db. Last for at least 500 shots
per squirt. ATF does not want you to know about this legal stuff.
If you order by credit card you will get an extra 100 cc free, just
include Shipping and Handling an added $50.00. "

Easier to log in to 1-800-Mickey-Milk than the Obama UnAffordable Health Care site.
Have your credit card and bank routing information ready.
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M40A1308M
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Re: Tac 65 Review and CCF coolant Review

Post by M40A1308M »

10 $ for 100cc that's a rip!!!! We use that by the gallon were I work and we get a 32 oz bottle for 2.99$ We pump those little bastards hard .LOL
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