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 Post subject: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:54 am 
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Hi, first post but I have been lurking for a while and doing research. I am in the market for a .22 can and have narrowed down my search down to a few suppressors, mainly the:

AAC Element
AAC Prodigy
Liberty Kodiak

After subscribing to silencer research I think I am leaning more towards a mono-core design and more specifically the Liberty Kodiak because it has a stainless core.

So, first question is what if any benefit is there between baffle designs? It seems that the K-baffle element is a favorite of everyone but the baffle stack seems like it would me harder to remove than a mono-core.

Second question, is the stainless mono-core of the Kodiak going to be easier to clean than the aluminum mono-core of the Prodigy? I realize the Kodiak weighs about twice as much but I would sacrifice the weight for the ease of serviceability.

Thanks


Last edited by NinerRider on Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:59 am 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:21 am
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Location: South Florida
I can't answer your questions about baffle designs, but there is a member of this forum, "Chondro", who has a lot of experience with Liberty cans. He has a bunch of videos posted on youtube showing shooting, disassembly, and cleaning of the Kodiaks.

I have an AAC Element which I like a lot and also a Liberty Essence at my dealer waiting on the Form 4.


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:00 am 
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Silent But Deadly

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The k baffles are really not a big deal to get out and clean to me. YMMV that being said the kodiak TL is a great choice and you cant go wrong with it. I wouldnt even consider the prodigy at all being aluminum and the keyholing issues, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:53 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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KODIAK hands down. It is a great can.


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:04 pm 
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yamatitan wrote:
The k baffles are really not a big deal to get out and clean to me. YMMV that being said the kodiak TL is a great choice and you cant go wrong with it. I wouldnt even consider the prodigy at all being aluminum and the keyholing issues, etc.


Wow first time I have heard about the Prodigy key-holing, any links to previous posts?


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:29 pm 
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NinerRider wrote:
yamatitan wrote:
The k baffles are really not a big deal to get out and clean to me. YMMV that being said the kodiak TL is a great choice and you cant go wrong with it. I wouldnt even consider the prodigy at all being aluminum and the keyholing issues, etc.


Wow first time I have heard about the Prodigy key-holing, any links to previous posts?


One of many:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=68474


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:34 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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Another
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60107&hilit=Prodigy


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:03 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:46 pm
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Have you looked at the Kodiak TL? Basically the same thing as the kodiak with a titanium tube. I think it is also slightly quieter than the regular Kodiak. Unless you plan on shooting 5.7 or full auto .22 the TL seems to be the way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:29 pm 
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yamatitan wrote:
NinerRider wrote:
yamatitan wrote:
The k baffles are really not a big deal to get out and clean to me. YMMV that being said the kodiak TL is a great choice and you cant go wrong with it. I wouldnt even consider the prodigy at all being aluminum and the keyholing issues, etc.


Wow first time I have heard about the Prodigy key-holing, any links to previous posts?


One of many:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=68474



Thanks a lot, I would not be happy with a my first suppressor key-holing. My friends AK74 has similar problems and it is so frustrating.


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:48 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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I found the Kodiak on Silencer research as well. With no one famaliar with Liberty it was one of the more difficult choices as I didn't want to get more than one rimfire can. After talking with Dave and he explained that the TL is 3-4 db's quieter I took the plunge and went with that one.

What wasn't covered or explained anywhere is the lack of blowback put into that design and why I love it so much and now have all 3 versions plus a retrofit (Yeah the design made me a rimfire addict :lol: ). My M&P 9mm follower after 20 shots is dirtier than a 1000 with a Kodiak. You'll find some of the designs will actually shut the host weapons down pretty quick. Outback II shut down my SBR in 100 rounds. I've run the same upper on my M-16 (yep got that host just because of the Kodiak.. :roll: ) and haven't shut it down yet. Though got up to 600 and then thought I was getting together with a member here and cleaned it..Didn't want it shutting down as those bolts are just a fubar mess no matter what. But it does run cleaner with the can on than off. Yep cleaner on.

I mentioned to Dave after about 6 months or so (Owner of Liberty) about the lack of blowback and he said that was the point of the design. Told him that would be a really handy bit of info to put out there.. :lol: Anyone in this day and age can make a quiet can..Well you would think..Just bore it a straight .250 and call it a day..Kodiaks go up to between .270-283..

You can clean the core with a Knife. Lack of blowback. Best sound reduction. Built like a tank. You found the core just like I did so I know what your looking at and you clearly appreciate a good design. I'd say its safe to say you won't be happy with any other choice.

My newest vid..Type Liberty Kodiak and you'll find my others or just click on my others. Liberty also put up a vid I did on their rimfire page. Another thing I forgot to mention in that video..All Liberty designs protect the tube..The blast chamber is self contained and does not expose the tube to wear. No threads in the tube either to pooch up. Thats the important part. You screw up the core you can have another made. They have retrofitted a number of my cans from other makers and they always try to protect the tube if the design allows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0aeeXMSXlQ

I like this one for side by side can on and without..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01e6ao_yIMA

The neat thing I just found out..All his designs are awesome..Not just the Kodiaks..Who would have known..Thought the Torch was just a budget .223 can..Not one that meters 122db's at the ear.. :shock: They offer stock and I'm buying it all.. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Chondro wrote:
I found the Kodiak on Silencer research as well. With no one famaliar with Liberty it was one of the more difficult choices as I didn't want to get more than one rimfire can. After talking with Dave and he explained that the TL is 3-4 db's quieter I took the plunge and went with that one.

What wasn't covered or explained anywhere is the lack of blowback put into that design and why I love it so much and now have all 3 versions plus a retrofit (Yeah the design made me a rimfire addict :lol: ). My M&P 9mm follower after 20 shots is dirtier than a 1000 with a Kodiak. You'll find some of the designs will actually shut the host weapons down pretty quick. Outback II shut down my SBR in 100 rounds. I've run the same upper on my M-16 (yep got that host just because of the Kodiak.. :roll: ) and haven't shut it down yet. Though got up to 600 and then thought I was getting together with a member here and cleaned it..Didn't want it shutting down as those bolts are just a fubar mess no matter what. But it does run cleaner with the can on than off. Yep cleaner on.

I mentioned to Dave after about 6 months or so (Owner of Liberty) about the lack of blowback and he said that was the point of the design. Told him that would be a really handy bit of info to put out there.. :lol: Anyone in this day and age can make a quiet can..Well you would think..Just bore it a straight .250 and call it a day..Kodiaks go up to between .270-283..

You can clean the core with a Knife. Lack of blowback. Best sound reduction. Built like a tank. You found the core just like I did so I know what your looking at and you clearly appreciate a good design. I'd say its safe to say you won't be happy with any other choice.

My newest vid..Type Liberty Kodiak and you'll find my others or just click on my others. Liberty also put up a vid I did on their rimfire page. Another thing I forgot to mention in that video..All Liberty designs protect the tube..The blast chamber is self contained and does not expose the tube to wear. No threads in the tube either to pooch up. Thats the important part. You screw up the core you can have another made. They have retrofitted a number of my cans from other makers and they always try to protect the tube if the design allows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0aeeXMSXlQ

I like this one for side by side can on and without..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01e6ao_yIMA

The neat thing I just found out..All his designs are awesome..Not just the Kodiaks..Who would have known..Thought the Torch was just a budget .223 can..Not one that meters 122db's at the ear.. :shock: They offer stock and I'm buying it all.. :D


Thanks for the input! Yeah I am going to buy a Kodiak, the research I did plus the input from everyone has made it a pretty clear choice. I really like the fact that Liberty gets all there cans on video/audio so you can hear the suppression achieved.


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:43 pm 
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...vs Spectre

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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:51 pm 
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ThePatriot wrote:
...vs Spectre


Yeah I thought the Spectre was going to be in the running but it didn't test to well on a 10/22 almost at the bottom of the list, although the reviewer thought that it was a quite good suppressor over all.


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:13 pm 
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Element - Solid performer, but I hate the way it looks, I'm not alone in this. Also, after owning a Spectre that benefits from a pusher tool, I'm over any can that requires one. The K's on this are remarkably thin, but apparently thick enough because I haven't seen pictures of broken ones. I can't remember if the Element is 5.7 or full auto rated.

Prodigy - Older, aluminum, I can't see any reason to buy one of these. It's not lighter, shorter, or quieter, than other options. If anything AAC's new Pilot2 looks better than this to me. Seems like Element and Pilot sales must cannibalize prodigy.

Spectre - Great can, solid, good value, but as above, it's kind of a pain in the ass to clean. The threads get gunked up with .22 crap and pushing out the baffles is just more work than I like to put in. I had an issue with the end cap AND body unscrewing on me, then another issue where I couldn't get the can removed from an adapter.

Kodiak - Seem like decent cans but DEFINITELY lack finished product details. The outside is extremely basic, the end caps look fine and the core is unique, but this is entry level cnc stuff. Compared to the details the AAC and SilencerCo cans have it's stone-age. Good company reputation, but very small and who knows how long they'll be around. I hope they do well, but larger companies like AAC, SWR, Silencerco, etc all look more appealing to banks when they need money.

SS Sparrow - VERY easy to clean, VERY detailed, a well thought out product. The details on the core are known only to people who have seen them in person. The entire core is serrated (I assume) to prevent carbon build up on the outer tube pieces, the endcap looks expensive, the O-ring feature stops the threads from getting gunked up, etc. Full auto and 5.7 rated. This is by far the easiest unit to clean. What it lacks however is the absolute best sound suppression. It's top 90% for sure, and can keep up with even the Element on some host, but it probably isn't quieter. This imo is splitting hairs, it's very quiet just not the quietest. I have never been shooting my Spectre and been disappointed with the sound, I doubt anyone would


The sparrow imo, is currently the overall best .22 can out there, right now. Full disclosure, I own a spectre, and have seen and or tested all the other cans above at my dealers except Liberty's. My dealer has a SS Sparrow I'm probably going to buy.

(A note about 5.7 rated. A lot of people spew this specification off, and to me it makes no difference as A. I don't own a 5.7mm, and B. I probably wouldn't use this can on a PS90 or FiveSeven. However, it does let me know that the particular silencer is overbuilt for 22lr, which imo isn't a bad thing.)


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:07 am 
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I don’t think it’s fair to suggest because Liberty is a smaller company that they could go under and not be able to offer warranty work. This isn’t a company that is two years old that only offers two models. They offer cans in every major caliber that either meter at the very top or very close to it. Its neither fair to compare a can that hasn’t been real world tested to one that you haven’t even seen yet in person. (Probably best to have possession and shoot a few thousand rounds on at least a couple hosts to suggest the Sparrow is the overall best can out there.) Besides Liberty is offering the upgrades on one of the larger companies you mentioned whose lifetime warrantee seems to be quite a bit less. Liberty is the company that fix all my s--t cans as well as upgrade them to last.

One of the many things I love about the design is the fact that you won’t need them for warrantee work. (Combo of many things but hands down it’s how clean the host runs.) If the tax stamp is adjusted for inflation or the laws change so that say you can’t even send them the through the mail anymore then its best to have one that is perfect and you can maintain yourself for life. Take a good look again at the three pieces that make up the Kodiaks. I suppose you could misplace or lose the solid steel end cap, or drive over the core by mistake with your Steamroller.

Okay “Entry level CNC stuff that is stone age”? (WTF HUh?) I wouldn’t care if they make the cores with a hand file. It doesn’t change the fact that you have the quietest most durable can that keeps the gun running clean and does all that on every host. But since when have K baffles been state of the art? I’d rather have a can machined with the precision that doesn’t need O-rings. You haven’t heard any complaints about the end caps coming off on barrels or not being able to get them back together or end caps breaking or always spinning. Not dealing with the wrong cores that were put out there or key holing issues either. Also it’s not one that you hear about a lot of people having trouble getting apart or can’t get apart at all. Again real world tests are needed. Actually you don’t hear about any problems with the Kodiaks.

I realize there is absolutely no similarity at all but when I first took my Avatar picture I approached Dave again with making a cheaper and smaller version of the Kodiaks. (Okay what is so revolutionary with the Sparrow again? Looks pretty simple to make to me.) You can see where I removed a lot of the tooling operations to reduce costs and tossed the idea for him to go with a 4.9 inch overall length and bore it a straight .250. I’ve been on him about this for over a year and I think the last time I may have convinced him. Now by going short you have to bore tighter to get the same sound reduction. But many people don’t care if it shuts down the host in 100 rounds from the blowback and their only consideration with a can is the sound and size. Knowing some people want short I just think Liberty should offer one more to their product line for another option. If that’s what people want they may as well be the one that sells it to them. If I wanted short and quiet with alot of blowback I have those choices right now.

I get it you don’t like the look. The clean lines are what appeal to me but you can have him cut flowers in the front cap if you would like as well as make the rear cap the shape of a tea cup and engrave lattice work into the tube.

I found the can on Silencer Research as well and knew that was the one I wanted. The holdback for me was because no one had heard of Liberty and issues like quality control and possible warrantee work were a real concern. I can say now with confidence that neither is even remotely an issue. Even if the laws change and its game over Liberty will still be there as a working machine shop. Not alot of these other companies can say that.

Have you ever noticed all the cans I have that I don't recommend? This is 2011..Making a quiet rimfire can shouldn't be that hard to do. Making one that doesn't gunk up the host. Just one so far. Hey this one sounds great now lets go home and take apart 10/22 mags to clean so they'll work again. Yeah that sounds like fun.

Yeah I know a few of you have heard this to many times but clealy not sticking and just plain shitty to scare someone away from a can by suggesting they might go out of business.

Oh and you look best to the bank when you don't owe anything at all..Big companies fail all the time.
This seems on topic..
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69370

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Last edited by Chondro on Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:02 am 
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At this moment, the surething for me should be the Surefire.
...I'll wait for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:34 pm 
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winsor wrote:
At this moment, the surething for me should be the Surefire.
...I'll wait for it.


Wha? Why would the surefire be a sure thing? No one has posted any data of it, no one knows the durability, or anything at all about it. Of all the options, the Surefire is the absolute least sure thing. Not saying it won't prove itself, just saying that it definitely has not yet.

Chondro, I understand your opinions and you may be correct on some aspects. I'm not knocking your choice in silencers. Everyone here knows you're up on Liberty, but I also have opinions. I understand from handling the silencerco sparrow core that there is probably twice the amount of work in each one than on the Liberty core. That's not good or bad, just a note. It seems to me, you talk about about the no-blowback of the Liberty cores, but that's a little subjective isn't it? If the Sparrow and Liberty cores are so similar, why would the blowback on one be any different than another? I'm not knocking Liberty, just expressed why I haven't been particularly interested in their 22 cans. Which I forgot to mention are also a bit expensive, this is also not an absolute con, but it's also not a pro. Take it easy.


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:16 pm 
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I would agree that one thing that keeps me from buying the liberty is the exterior appearance. the engraving does not look as good as the say aac or silencerco. They just look a little from 1 like in construction. I'm sure they are nice, but that's my opinion.

I like to balance size, weight, sound reduction (heavily weighted) looks, durability and quality of construction. I think the element comes out ahead here. But I think my second choice would be the sparrow, although i am not that crazy about the clam shell thing.

no matter what you chose, I think you will be happy, all that have been talked about here seem to be top quality.


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:52 pm 
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este wrote:
winsor wrote:
At this moment, the surething for me should be the Surefire.
...I'll wait for it.


Wha? Why would the surefire be a sure thing? No one has posted any data of it, no one knows the durability, or anything at all about it. Of all the options, the Surefire is the absolute least sure thing. Not saying it won't prove itself, just saying that it definitely has not yet.
.....


An experience on poor quality f1 of that kind of the cone (9mm), it outperformed over any k baffles (1.25" can). And from the video I saw. I suppose it will be great in 22 too.

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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:33 am 
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Been running across these odd rumors lately about the size of Liberty and when the banking came up again it seems like someone is trying to make it sound like Liberty could go under. I thought at first it could be coincidental but after talking to Dave it seems this is deliberate. Concerns like appearance are another matter and have to be considered when buying a lifetime purchase.

They moved to a smaller font for their engraving awhile ago now but both my picures and the ones on Liberty’s site are older. The giant font was less than flattering. My TL is the older style while the Steel Kodiak and Essence are the newer. But since one is in the white and the other has the silver coating both are very difficult to photograph correctly. It just makes the engraving look sloppy. Though in the black it looks perfect. Certainly on par with anything else I’ve seen aside from maybe a model I had seen laser engraved. I’ll have to get a picture.

On side note Liberty is much larger than even I had realized. They again are in hiring mode and bringing more into the shop as well as sales. Liberty has existed now for 6 years and as a company has no debt. They own everything free and clear.

It’s a different can (Torch) but I think because the tube is larger it reflects the light differently and shows the engraving better. This engraving is exactly like my Steel version and Essence. Check the endcaps here again. Sure they could be welded if needed but the fact they can get in there easy is more important to me. Nobody cuts ends and blends them like Liberty does. You really have to see them in person I think to appreciate the quality. I know the Torch turned out to be far far more than I expected. If it exceeds my anal retentive expectations I think anyone would be happy.

Personally not a fan of the new front caps but after owning one I am starting to change my preference. The old style ends are an easy request.

With the smaller can I’ve been trying to get Dave to do that was my point..While very similiar they are going to function completely differntly. If you look at the picture I whited out to simplify the process to prod Dave with you can see what your left with. Then to get the sound reduction on a shorter can you have to bore tight. By doing this you completely eliminate the lack of blowback feature. There is so much that goes into that core you would be amazed. They are actually very time consuming to make and still some of it has to be done by hand. (again part of the reason I love them..I know I’m actually getting my money’s worth on these.) But going from a can bored from .280/270 down to a straight .250 and you just get a mess as far as that feature. The other hold up with that design is the risk then of baffle strikes..Won’t hurt the baffles but won’t shoot for crap. Limited to factory only threading then. (Not if the gun was threaded properly just can’t be off at all then) That’s the reason Liberty never did it.

Hey Este didn’t mean to suggest your opinion is of any less importance. Someone is playing dirty right now and I think you just by coincidence repeated that at an odd time. Everyone knows I’m a Liberty fanatic. When they signed one of those “Art of Silence” t-shirts that I asked them to make I didn’t even realize all the employees. (Asked that all the employees sign.) :mrgreen:

Oh and that Surefire can. Not to pick..But where the hell is all the lead and buildup suppose to go? Love the design..Just don’t think anyone thought through it’s a rimfire can. Or whats going to be in it when you have to take it apart. I can already hear the complaints..LOL (I could buy another TL with what I spent with them on just two of their little flashlights and bulbs!)

Okay now check this out at 495..
You know it is the silver..The engraving still does't look good in the photo..Looks awesome in person! Better than Gemtech's
Image
Image :|

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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:46 am 
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tylermtech wrote:
I would agree that one thing that keeps me from buying the liberty is the exterior appearance. the engraving does not look as good as the say aac or silencerco. .


That is pathetic.


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:54 am 
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este wrote:

Chondro, I understand your opinions and you may be correct on some aspects. I'm not knocking your choice in silencers. Everyone here knows you're up on Liberty, but I also have opinions. I understand from handling the silencerco sparrow core that there is probably twice the amount of work in each one than on the Liberty core. That's not good or bad, just a note. It seems to me, you talk about about the no-blowback of the Liberty cores, but that's a little subjective isn't it? If the Sparrow and Liberty cores are so similar, why would the blowback on one be any different than another? I'm not knocking Liberty, just expressed why I haven't been particularly interested in their 22 cans. Which I forgot to mention are also a bit expensive, this is also not an absolute con, but it's also not a pro. Take it easy.


He is the one who has been shooting them along with his cans from other makers and noticed the low blowback. So if that is subjective, I want to know to what you proffer that experience is subject to.


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:37 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:37 am
Posts: 2030
Location: PA
Okay here we go in the black. This is my buddies. He had purchased an Outback 2 at the same time I got my TL. (Hey the Outback 2 sounds awesome!!) The reason is because my dealer had never heard of Liberty and the TL cost me 650 with shipping and the transfer before I had even bought the stamp. He got the Outback for 325. I could tell he was afraid to shoot his for fear of filling it up. You would notice how he tended to remove it rather quickly and grab one of mine. :wink: So he replaced his now with the best there is but who paid more? Okay I'm psychotic and have all of them but it would be rather neat story in savings if I didn't buy 3 more of those versions then.. :lol:

Okay the biggest moral to the story..Had it not been for this design this host would have never been considered. This is the exact upper that got shut down while using it on my SBR in semi with his Outback 2. Maybe it was after that he started grabbing mine..

Buddy of mine in FL has some TL's at a real good price and black is the stock color. Not sure if it was my buddies first choice but he's very pleased. I can point anyone to him for a good price. Same fella I pointed everyone to on the Osprey's. I actually got one out of that batch but while it was still on the form 3 the new Sparrow came out which left a bad taste in my mouth and had my SOT sell it. Serial 308 too..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0aeeXMSXlQ
Image

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Last edited by Chondro on Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:10 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:59 am
Posts: 358
Location: Oregon
Kodiak for sure, don't forget the kodiak is rated for .22 Hornet also. 8) The main reason I bought one. Of course I'm still waiting for ATF approval. Miss Farris has been sitting on it for almost 4 months now,,, :?



Multi-purpose is the only way to go,,, :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Element Vs. Prodigy Vs. Kodiak
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:56 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:44 pm
Posts: 4077
Location: MONTANA
Prodigy is a pain in the ass to get unstuck once stuck. U must bead blast out the tube every several thousands of rounds to keep the core going in and out without hanging up on the built up s--t inside the tube. It's a great performer, and I do like the can, but with new designs come better function.

I'd get a sparrow just because of the clam shell. I think that idea is the winner just because of ease of take down. 22lr cans fill up so fast, I still think cleaning is one of the most important aspects when buying.

I'll be real interested to see how the new surefire cans perform.

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