Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

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aries14482
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Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

Post by aries14482 »

This shotgun has changed my opinion of shotguns. I really love this thing.

The Vepr 12 runs from detachable box magazines which can be had in capacities up to 12 rounds (which feed reliably) and insert easily on a closed bolt, straight in like an AR15. It features a last-round bolt hold-open mechanism that can be manually activated or released using external controls, much like an AR15, comes with pistol grip already attached, comes with AK-type rifle sights with an adjustable rear sight, has a barrel with cylinder bore which is threaded for chokes, muzzle brakes, and flash hiders. There are even adapters available to use winchokes and remchokes.

My example patterns well with the SGM-made copies of the Russian chokes. These are available in a 3-pack for around $90 and come with modified, full, and extra full.

I'm sad to report that mine needed a little re-profiling of its trigger parts to alleviate an FTE issue with birdshot, but now runs every bit as well as the one I first saw on Military Arms Channel. It eats everything from #8 dove loads to 3" 15 pellet buckshot without issue, except for estate #7 1/2 dove loads, which get caught up about once every other 25 round box of ammo.

The Estate dove loads have a recessed crimp that leaves a protruding "lip" around the front of the shell. This "lip" sometimes collapses outward during feeding and catches on the extractor cutout outside the chamber, though it has so far always been resolved by drawing the bolt back slightly and letting the round chamber or just shoving it in with a tap to the bolt handle.

This shotgun runs just like a modern rifle, which I love. It has really changed my mind about the usefulness of shotguns, which I previously had little interest in. In my opinion, 12 rounds of #1 buckshot with 12 more buck or slugs just a 1-3 second reload away really brings the shotgun out of the "struggling-to-find-a-use-outside-of-bird-hunting, lever action/19th century technology" category it previously fell into. :D

If you can get your hands on one, definitely give it a try!
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rif

Post by YugoRPK »

I dont know if I would say the shotgun is less than useful. I cant think of any other gun that I can put 9-15 30 caliber rounds on target with one pull of the trigger. Even a machine gun won't do that. At ranges you will find in a house the shotgun is the deadliest thing going.
I find rifles completely worthless for the majority of self defense uses. If I shoot at someone from a range that I need to use the sights there is a really good chance I just murdered someone and am going to jail. The shotgun dispenses a huge pile of lead in one spot OR a 4000 ft lb slug with 7-9 rounds just like it in the tube to back it up. In practice the 12 gauge shotgun is the best home defense weapon there is.
Ive owned enough Saigas to not rely on them for anything other than shooting pop cans. Perhaps the VEPR is a better gun. Most reliable autoloader shotgun Ive owned would be the benelli M2 but in my older age my 11-87 is growing on me with its near lack of recoil.


aries14482 wrote:This shotgun has changed my opinion of shotguns. I really love this thing.

The Vepr 12 runs from detachable box magazines which can be had in capacities up to 12 rounds (which feed reliably) and insert easily on a closed bolt, straight in like an AR15. It features a last-round bolt hold-open mechanism that can be manually activated or released using external controls, much like an AR15, comes with pistol grip already attached, comes with AK-type rifle sights with an adjustable rear sight, has a barrel with cylinder bore which is threaded for chokes, muzzle brakes, and flash hiders. There are even adapters available to use winchokes and remchokes.

My example patterns well with the SGM-made copies of the Russian chokes. These are available in a 3-pack for around $90 and come with modified, full, and extra full.

I'm sad to report that mine needed a little re-profiling of its trigger parts to alleviate an FTE issue with birdshot, but now runs every bit as well as the one I first saw on Military Arms Channel. It eats everything from #8 dove loads to 3" 15 pellet buckshot without issue, except for estate #7 1/2 dove loads, which get caught up about once every other 25 round box of ammo.

The Estate dove loads have a recessed crimp that leaves a protruding "lip" around the front of the shell. This "lip" sometimes collapses outward during feeding and catches on the extractor cutout outside the chamber, though it has so far always been resolved by drawing the bolt back slightly and letting the round chamber or just shoving it in with a tap to the bolt handle.

This shotgun runs just like a modern rifle, which I love. It has really changed my mind about the usefulness of shotguns, which I previously had little interest in. In my opinion, 12 rounds of #1 buckshot with 12 more buck or slugs just a 1-3 second reload away really brings the shotgun out of the "struggling-to-find-a-use-outside-of-bird-hunting, lever action/19th century technology" category it previously fell into. :D

If you can get your hands on one, definitely give it a try!
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rif

Post by aries14482 »

To each his own, I guess. I'd still prefer a short rifle over just about anything. 30 rounds of low recoil ammunition that I can accurately fire in a limited or rapid fashion, as the case may be, just makes me feel more comfortable.

I don't think the shotgun is less than useful. My experience shooting a lot of shotgun started after having spent several years mostly shooting rifle and pistol. I found that the transition from detachable magazines to a fixed magazine of 4+ rounds, that must be reloaded one round at a time, made me feel less comfortable when I thought about being in a situation where there's more than one armed attacker.

To me the shotgun feels like a jack-of-all trades, master of none kind of firearm- except for bird and snake hunting where I think it is absolutely the best tool for the job.

This particular shotgun stands out to me because it can be instantly topped off. I have no desire to quickly change from buck to slug and then back again, so capacity with a quick reload is more important to me. I feel like it could serve as a placeholder short range "rifle" in the event shotgun shells were all that I could get my hands on. Case in point, I've found myself shooting it the most out of my firearms lately since birdshot and the odd box of slugs are really all that's available at a reasonable price.
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rif

Post by YugoRPK »

aries14482 wrote:To each his own, I guess. I'd still prefer a short rifle over just about anything. 30 rounds of low recoil ammunition that I can accurately fire in a limited or rapid fashion, as the case may be, just makes me feel more comfortable.

I found that the transition from detachable magazines to a fixed magazine of 4+ rounds, that must be reloaded one round at a time, made me feel less comfortable when I thought about being in a situation where there's more than one armed attacker.

To me the shotgun feels like a jack-of-all trades, master of none kind of firearm- except for bird and snake hunting where I think it is absolutely the best tool for the job.
7+1 rounds of 3" 00 buckshot is going to take care of any armed army invading your living room. I think you'll be very hard pressed to find an example of anyone ever having to or needing to reload their tube fed shotgun while defending their home in a firefight. Personally, I cannot think of a weapon more ideally suited to the role of home defense than the 18" barrel extended tube fed shotgun loaded with #4 or bigger buck shot. They are dead nuts reliable and at in home short ranges the absolute most deadly firearm in existence. To me, my pistol is something I use to fight my way to my shotgun.

I think people lose track of what they are actually trying to accomplish with their weapons.
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rif

Post by aries14482 »

I live in a rural area. I'm not going to assume an individual or group of people ballsy enough to attack me in my house are going away empty-handed as soon as they get shot at, nor am I going to assume that they don't know how to fight with guns.

If (however many rounds) isn't enough, I'm going to need to put more in the weapon. A modern rifle does this pretty fast. The Vepr 12 does this just as fast as a modern rifle. A tube shotgun is slower.

You can say 8 is all you'll ever need and it might be. Unless it's not. I see nothing wrong with having more. Since I don't know beforehand what will be needed, I'm going to have as much as I think is practical.
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

Post by TROOPER »

This thread is old, but that last post.... what in the hell is he saying? Home invaders have historically proven to be very receptive to gunfire. Whether or not 8 is enough is a different conversation, but my gut says that if Mr. Home-Invader isn't dissuaded by 8 shots from a 12 gauge -- hit or miss -- he IS there to kill you, and nothing else. And he means to do it.

On a minor side-note, I was reading an article in some gun periodical where top shooting pros were being asked about what their preferred Home-D gun was. The categories were simply rife, shotgun, or pistol. I think the final vote was 5 for pistol and 7 for rifle. Or maybe it was some other combination of votes, but only the pistol and rifle got any votes... the shotgun got none.

Now it's easy to look at that article and say, "Well heck... these are pros and not a single one of them use a shotgun!" Well yes, that is true, but they only interviewed 12 people who were champion pistol and rifle competitors. Predictably, the pistol champions went with the pistols, and the rifle champions went with the rifles. So the real take-away was this: use what you're most proficient with. I was a little surprised that the narrator or author of that article didn't arrive at such an obvious conclusion. He took it as "rifles are best... followed by pistols... and shotguns suck." But whatever.

The only reason I wouldn't get super excited about a shotgun is simply because the spread isn't worth anything at living room distances. We're talking a fist-sized group at best. But compared to any pistol or rifle, and their spread on a one-shot group is going to be between .22 inches and .45 inches (for the most part). And the trauma per shot from a shotgun can't be compared to any handgun or rifle. I guess a person could load up a 50 BMG with varmint loads that vaporize on impact, but that's not reality.

... but someone not being concerned enough to abort the mission after being shot at 8 times with a 12 gauge? If that's a real concern for you, then you should move, and immediately examine your pastimes, because in a normal career, you're not going to end up with someone that dedicated to killing you.
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

Post by T-Rex »

Rem 870, all the way.
We live in a Ranch home.
The defensive strategy, for my wife, is to: grab kids and shotgun, kneel in bedroom at end of hall, 911 and leave phone on floor, fire at ANYTHING that comes into site. Reload, repeat.

She has been instructed not to call out or speak to 911. Her caller ID is already registered with our town's system, as far as location goes. Her task is to focus on the 4m of hallway.

I feel the shotgun is best defense, in this situation.
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

Post by DKDravis »

Pump-action shotgun ... loaded with large pellets, old style wads, no plastic "cups" No choke installed ...

I bet just the sound of racking a pump has scared off almost as many "home invaders" as a couple of angry Rottweilers .. 8) :mrgreen:

If someone is dumb and/or determined enough to still seek entry, then the pump-gun will be just as good as any other weapon, and if you have hunted a lot with a shotgun, you probably will not need much of a "spread pattern" at "house distances"

If you have time to "sort out the scenario" you have time to handle the situation in ways that does not have to end in shots fired..

I this country we have had a few episodes of "eastern european gangs" doing "home invasions" But access to guns for "home defense" is really not an option here.. if you keep any of your guns "ready for action" you are in violation of the law, which states that guns must be stored unloaded in an approved safe, to which only the permit-holder for the guns have access.
"Fast action" gun-safes are not approved, in effect you are NOT allowed to defend yourself in your own home with a firearm. You can not purchase or get a permit for a firearm for the purpose of "self-defence" in this country.

people have been successfully prosecuted, convicted and jailed for "using excessive force" when defending themselves in their homes.. Having an unlicensed/illegal firearm carries an automatic 1 year minimum prison sentence in my country .. :shock: It does not matter if I've never been convicted of anything, of if I have other licensed firearms... We have even had cases of people getting prosecuted for using "improvised weapons" (golf clubs, a Boken, a broken off broom handle) to "attack" a home invader who had a knife.. :shock: They did not get convicted at least ..

So if you do get "home invaded here" sit down in a corner, do as the bad guys tell you, do nothing but call the cops, who will show up really quickly .. I'd say in my case 15 - 20 minutes ... :lol: (My wife once interrupted a burglary in progress, 3 late teen kids who had stole a car and had been doing the rounds in the countryside, seeking out isolated houses. She scared them off just by shouting at them and pretending she had a dog in her car .. :mrgreen: ) They dropped everything and ran to the stolen car and were off like a shot .. She then rang the police, told them that we have guns in the house, then called me at work ... I managed to get home faster than the police could show up ... :o (20 min drive!!)

I keep no "weapons" ready for such an extremely unlikely event, but I am prepared in other ways.. .. My house is very difficult to get into if the doors are locked.. And just as difficult to get out of, any other way than the one you came in.. Glass is reinforced with Polycarbonate in strategic places .. The dog may be small but it makes a hell of a racket if someone it does not know comes inside the perimeter fence.. I have some "non standard" alarm systems (Built them myself, I'm the only one who knows how they work :wink: ) You can not cut my telephone wire .. the real one is not visible on the outside of the house... the same goes for power lines, I have a fake one of those ... courtesy of the power company not being willing to pay to remove the old one... :mrgreen:
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

Post by aries14482 »

TROOPER wrote:This thread is old, but that last post.... what in the hell is he saying? Home invaders have historically proven to be very receptive to gunfire. Whether or not 8 is enough is a different conversation, but my gut says that if Mr. Home-Invader isn't dissuaded by 8 shots from a 12 gauge -- hit or miss -- he IS there to kill you, and nothing else. And he means to do it.
What exactly don't you understand? A home invasion isn't perpetrated by someone looking to steal your VCR. Burglary does not equal home invasion. Home invaders do what they do because of a desire to subjugate and humiliate others. It's a crime born of psychopathy or hatred, not greed or desperation.
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

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aries14482 wrote:
TROOPER wrote:This thread is old, but that last post.... what in the hell is he saying? Home invaders have historically proven to be very receptive to gunfire. Whether or not 8 is enough is a different conversation, but my gut says that if Mr. Home-Invader isn't dissuaded by 8 shots from a 12 gauge -- hit or miss -- he IS there to kill you, and nothing else. And he means to do it.
What exactly don't you understand? A home invasion isn't perpetrated by someone looking to steal your VCR. Burglary does not equal home invasion. Home invaders do what they do because of a desire to subjugate and humiliate others. It's a crime born of psychopathy or hatred, not greed or desperation.
Thanks for the lesson. Go kill someone, slugger. Defend the s--t out of your home.
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

Post by aries14482 »

I get it. You're the only one in the room, that you know of, professional enough...
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

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aries14482 wrote:I get it. You're the only one in the room, that you know of, professional enough...
You don't get s--t.
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

Post by YugoRPK »

aries14482 wrote:
TROOPER wrote:This thread is old, but that last post.... what in the hell is he saying? Home invaders have historically proven to be very receptive to gunfire. Whether or not 8 is enough is a different conversation, but my gut says that if Mr. Home-Invader isn't dissuaded by 8 shots from a 12 gauge -- hit or miss -- he IS there to kill you, and nothing else. And he means to do it.
What exactly don't you understand? A home invasion isn't perpetrated by someone looking to steal your VCR. Burglary does not equal home invasion. Home invaders do what they do because of a desire to subjugate and humiliate others. It's a crime born of psychopathy or hatred, not greed or desperation.

The only home invasions Ive known of personally were for drugs. Money and drugs. None of this Clockwork Orange crap. It was all about the quick score and if they had to bash someones brains in to do it that was OK. One of my best friends in high school ended up a high functioning vegetable thanks to 4 guys who shot up on alcohol ( Yep ) and home invaded his place to score an 8 ball of coke. I can think of half a dozen similar incidences and none of them had anything to do with humiliating anyone. It was always money and drugs.

I was in the middle of a home invasion robbery in Long Beach during a party once. bunch of guys broke in a robbed everyone there. Money and drugs. I'll never forget that blood spray flying across the room and hitting a lamp shade when the guy who owned the house told them to get the F out of his house. It was the early 80's and I was about 17 at the time and remembered thinking I need to find a better class of friends.
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

Post by whiterussian1974 »

Home Invaders purposely choose an occupied dwelling. Otherwise they are "Habitation Burglars." Home Invaders SEEK violence against their Victims.

I'm posting what some A-holes do for fun. I completely understand aries14482's position. It's even worse in a Rural Setting where no Neighbors and Police an hr away.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Man-killed-in-home-invasion-8382987.php wrote:Man killed in home invasion as sister locked in bedroom, police say
A man was shot to death late Saturday night when a group of men forced their way into his south Houston home.
Jimenez said the incident appears to have been a robbery, though it remains unclear if anything was taken from the house. Police interviewed the victim's sister and canvassed the neighborhood early Sunday.
Sometimes people have "thrill kill" on their mind. They rape the women and children while forcing the man to watch helplessly.

The article doesn't mention that the 3 black men beat on his door claiming to be Police. Maybe they had the wrong address and thought that he was a drug baron. It was supposedly a Robbery, but nothing was stolen when they didn't get whatever they wanted from the man.
---
I used to live on 5 acres and few Neighbors. Police were 1 Deputy an hr away. And State Trooper Barracks 1.5hrs away for Backup. Pistols and shotguns aren't good enough for shooting through a window or door at people on your Property. And that's enough to Justify Lethal Force in TX under various circumstances.

For these Encounters, I'd prefer a large caliber rifle w 30+ rd mags. And at least 4 mags. Plus another for my wife to guard the backyard or side. We've got NightVision Cams for Perimeter Surveillance. And Nightscopes for our rifles.

If the Threat was to present, it's almost certainly at night and the Invaders would use overwhelming #s and Force to Swarm. So we need to begin dropping their #s quickly, while retaining Cover. And sometimes the Enemy will Firebomb a home w Molotov Cocktails to drive out their Victims and capture them for Ransom, or worse.

There were the Missing TX 40. How did they happen?
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

Post by whiterussian1974 »

Yet another typical Home Invasion. The guy demanded property that he believed was there. Instead of just taking what he wished, he shot the Resident.
http://www.khou.com/news/crime/man-shot-killed-during-possible-home-invasion-in-ne-houston/215690512 wrote:HOUSTON – Police are investigating a homicide after a man was shot and killed during a possible home invasion in northeast Houston overnight.

According to the Houston Police Department, it happened at 10:15 p.m. Wednesday at Pannell and New Orleans.

At that time, an unknown male suspect made entry into the home where a man was inside. Witnesses nearby heard the suspect demanding property from the victim.

The suspect then shot the victim an unknown number of times. He died at the scene inside the home.

A girlfriend also lives there with him but she was not home at the time of the shooting.

It is unknown what was taken if anything.
Many of these Cases, the Resident/Victim knows the Attackers. There is often a Personal Motive. A girlfriend, disrespect in public, private grievance, jealousy, etc.

And yes, Yugo. Drugs or cash Stash is often the Motive. But Kidnap for Ransom, Human Slavery, Sex Trafficking, and many other potential Motives.
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Re: Has anyone else tried the Vepr 12? Shotgun runs like rifle

Post by TROOPER »

I don't refute any of that. If anything, it backs up what I said: "if someone breaks into your home and isn't dissuaded by 8 shots of 12 gauge, then they are there to kill you."

The crux of this argument is less about the intentions of the would-be home-invader, which we all seem to agree on, and more to do with effectively dissuading them from their activities.

If someone wants to use an AR for a bedside gun, do it. If you want a 12-gauge AK, do it. Use what you're most proficient with.

The point of curiosity that I fixated on is the concept that an 8+1 12 gauge gun-battle could ensue, and end on nothing. No change-of-heart, no change-of-living. I find this peculiar, because my bedside gun is a gun... just the gun. I don't strap on a gun-belt with extra magazines. This is a risk; if the incident persists beyond the capacity of my chosen firearm, then I'm S.O.L. I suppose I could stash an extra magazine near-by... and if that's used up without resolving the issue? Following this logic will make us live in a bunker with decades of freeze-dried food, retinal scanners, HAZMAT suits, etc. What then? Anti-ballistic-missile missile-defense batteries?

Use the VEPR. But will you actually keep an extra mag with you? How will you carry it? Do you sleep in a LBE vest? I'm not mocking you, or anyone else, it's just that the reload benefits are only an actual advantage if you have a loaded magazine on your person at the time that you need it. In what wake-up-to-a-strange-sound scenario do you snap awake fully prepared for any contingency? And what is "fully prepared"? If you don't solve the matter before your second magazine runs dry, then what?

I have a 10+1 Beretta 1301 Comp as my bedside gun. Hornady 2 3/4 shells are actually just a shade shorter than Winchester, and it provides for that extra one. I hope I don't run out prematurely. I'd hope that as well with my GLOCK 17 with its +2 extension. I'd hope that with my suppressed, 35-round 9mm MPX.

There's no answer. But if your fears are so great that in your mind, they're greater than your fully-loaded firearms, then you may consider alternatives - changing your location, or changing your pastimes. As it is now, you're more likely to die from the flu than home-invaders... but do you take all of the dominant seasonal strain vaccination of likely flu each season? Or just the one? Do you even take the one?

Keep your fears in perspective.
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