Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw

User avatar
YugoRPK
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6318
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:56 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by YugoRPK »

Ive been playing around with the 11-87 a lot lately. Even limp wristing it from the hip this thing is firing 100% with 00 buck. Fires anything and everything I've tried from the shoulder with a fraction of the shoulder beating my old Benelli served up. After a few thousand rounds, as a defensive gun, I'd trust it as much as any pump and even with a bead sight I can hit an orange at 75 yards with a slug.

Image
Putting the laughter in manslaughter
User avatar
continuity
Elite Member
Posts: 4554
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by continuity »

Beautiful shotgun bro. On par with the quality of your avitar. :shock:
YugoRPK wrote:... with a fraction of the shoulder beating my old Benelli served up.
Well... duh. Gas over inertia... IMHO, a Benelli is an awesomely cool shot gun. Best issued to neanderthal, body building, concrete shouldered human clones.
YugoRPK wrote:After a few thousand rounds, as a defensive gun, I'd trust it as much as any pump and even with a bead sight I can hit an orange at 75 yards with a slug.
Uh... did you change out that front rifle sight?

As a note: No matter how cool it is, and no matter how much you love it... it will NEVAH... EVAH... be as reliable as a 870. Please take this as loving and caring input from an internet friend. :lol:

(poking holes in balloons is a hobby)
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
User avatar
YugoRPK
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6318
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:56 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by YugoRPK »

continuity wrote:Beautiful shotgun bro. On par with the quality of your avitar. :shock:
YugoRPK wrote:After a few thousand rounds, as a defensive gun, I'd trust it as much as any pump and even with a bead sight I can hit an orange at 75 yards with a slug.
Uh... did you change out that front rifle sight?
Yeah, I'm kind of surprised whenever I shoot the damned thing how well it shoots with a bead...or how well I shoot ...whatever. I can line clay pigeons up at 80 to 100 yards and pulverize them with slugs until I get tired of it. I did have the barrel threaded for a choke tube and its holding a modified choke in there but that shouldnt really affect the slug much.

I was out shooting a few weeks ago one of my employees dad was there skeet shooting. I put my gun down, loaded up three clay pigeons in the launcher, pulled the cord, reached down and picked up my gun, chambered a round and shot all three out of the sky. The guy looked at me and said "F--k it. I quit" and went over to the beer table. Nice shooting gun.
Putting the laughter in manslaughter
User avatar
continuity
Elite Member
Posts: 4554
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by continuity »

YugoRPK wrote:... I put my gun down, loaded up three clay pigeons in the launcher, pulled the cord, reached down and picked up my gun, chambered a round and shot all three out of the sky...
When you're good with a lead thrower, you're good. It is what it is.

The key is to know when it's that one in a, hundred, ten, or every other... thing, and that the force was with you, and... smile... and go drink their beer. :lol:

Been there. I know I can do it again, but... right then... I did it... and I'm not gonna push the fates. :mrgreen:
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
User avatar
YugoRPK
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6318
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:56 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by YugoRPK »

Ive put thousands of rounds through that one and thousands down the other semi auto's Ive owned. If I picked up a pump gun I'd screw it up completely. No muscle memory with that one. In a firefight, I'd die with a pump gun in my hand.


Image
Putting the laughter in manslaughter
User avatar
continuity
Elite Member
Posts: 4554
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by continuity »

Nice pic bro. Beautiful shotgun. BTW... no dryers on those silo's? WTF? Who are you hanging around with? :mrgreen:

IMHO, if it works for you, use it and don't look back. No denigration here. Have a 18" rem 1100 myself and love it. If that's what I'm given to work with, no issues.

My partiality to a 870 pump is like the difference between your "corvette" and my "jeep". We're both comfortable with what we drive.

As a parting comment. In the semi auto vs. pump made ready to project force discussion... on target, ready to engage, is one thing. Snatching it up from a ready condition is something else (chamber empty, magazine full, hammer down, safety off). Do you want to race me in getting that weapon operational?

Carry on.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
dtom29
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1015
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:15 pm
Location: Pa.

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by dtom29 »

LOL, are you talking racking the slide as opposed to hitting the button to let the bolt run closed? if you are then yes....I'll race. :roll:
There is nothing you can do with an 870 that I can't do just as well with an 1100 or 11-87...except short stroking.

edit to add, I keep two MEC Grabbers busy. I've shot thousands and thousands of shotgun rounds over the years. There are 4 870's, two 11-87's and 1 1100 in the safe, I'll take an 11-87 everytime and thats after running multiple 870's over the years.

I understand that you like your 870, I did too... in the past, and still think they are a fine choice as a defensive shotgun. The thing is that the Semi has evolved into a reliable alternative to the pump and like the semi-auto pistol surpassed the revolver the semi-auto shotgun has surpassed the pump shotgun.
User avatar
YugoRPK
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6318
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:56 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by YugoRPK »

continuity wrote:Nice pic bro. Beautiful shotgun. BTW... no dryers on those silo's? WTF? Who are you hanging around with? :mrgreen:

IMHO, if it works for you, use it and don't look back. No denigration here. Have a 18" rem 1100 myself and love it. If that's what I'm given to work with, no issues.

My partiality to a 870 pump is like the difference between your "corvette" and my "jeep". We're both comfortable with what we drive.

As a parting comment. In the semi auto vs. pump made ready to project force discussion... on target, ready to engage, is one thing. Snatching it up from a ready condition is something else (chamber empty, magazine full, hammer down, safety off). Do you want to race me in getting that weapon operational?

Carry on.

Dryers? We don't need no stinkin' dryers. You underestimate the aridity of central Oregon.
Putting the laughter in manslaughter
User avatar
L1A1Rocker
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 3578
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:40 pm
Location: Texas Hill Country

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by L1A1Rocker »

I don't know if its been mentioned or not so I'll mention it anyway. I read an incident years ago (may have been one of Ahyoob's files) about a cop that got pinned down and damn near shot by successive fire from a 20ga auto. The cop explained that his experience with shotguns was only with 12ga pumps. As such, he was caught very off guard by how rapidly he was being shot at with the 20ga auto. It was only for a tip of fate that he was not hit.

I post this only as a serious consideration for a 20ga auto. They're faster and easier to keep on target. Of course though, 'I' keep a 12ga pump - 8) Your mileage may vary.
User avatar
YugoRPK
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6318
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:56 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by YugoRPK »

L1A1Rocker wrote:I don't know if its been mentioned or not so I'll mention it anyway. I read an incident years ago (may have been one of Ahyoob's files) about a cop that got pinned down and damn near shot by successive fire from a 20ga auto. The cop explained that his experience with shotguns was only with 12ga pumps. As such, he was caught very off guard by how rapidly he was being shot at with the 20ga auto. It was only for a tip of fate that he was not hit.

I post this only as a serious consideration for a 20ga auto. They're faster and easier to keep on target. Of course though, 'I' keep a 12ga pump - 8) Your mileage may vary.
Any good modern semiauto can dump 7-8 rounds out of a 12 gauge in under 2 seconds. A good gas gun like an 1100 or 11-87 or even an M4 Benelli will keep them all on target. I know I can shoot 400-500 rounds through mine a day and not feel any effects the next day. I'd rather have the extra punch of the 12 gauge.

I don't believe everything Ayoob writes.
Putting the laughter in manslaughter
User avatar
continuity
Elite Member
Posts: 4554
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by continuity »

dtom29 wrote:LOL, are you talking racking the slide as opposed to hitting the button to let the bolt run closed? if you are then yes....I'll race. :roll: ...
Heh... I'm definately not gonna give you a head start.

Talking about getting into operation from a magazine full, hammer down on closed bolt condition. Wouldn't think a ready stand-by condition of keeping the bolt back, shell on carrier, would be... prudent. That's just me tho.

It's the difference between the racking the slide... and racking the bolt and then releasing it with whatever button you need to hit... and aquiring a target while bringing the system into operational readiness.
dtom29 wrote:...The thing is that the Semi has evolved into a reliable alternative to the pump...
Absolutely agree...
dtom29 wrote:... the semi-auto pistol surpassed the revolver...
The pistol's primary advantage, is increased magazine capacity. That's another discussion, but point well taken, sorta... (I've begun carrying a snub nose revolver as a BUG :mrgreen:)



Starting to feel like the crotchety curmudgeon, last man standing at the Alamo waving the pump battle flag. :?

I need reinforcements. :lol:
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
rockman96
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 997
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 4:49 am

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by rockman96 »

continuity wrote:Starting to feel like the crotchety curmudgeon, last man standing at the Alamo waving the pump battle flag. :?
More like pompous ass.
User avatar
continuity
Elite Member
Posts: 4554
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by continuity »

Your two contributions to the thread...
rockman96 wrote:I have to say, after many years of being a fan of pumps, I now put my trust in an 1100. it's the definition of reliable fire power!
rockman96 wrote: More like pompous ass.
Care to share understandings of what your level of trust in an 1100 is based on. Is it relative doing a building search for robbery suspects or more in line with defending a local trap club record? I've not opined that a semi-auto shotgun isn't a great tool. My position is that a pump action has characteristics that make it a tick better as a life defending tool.

I'm all over constructive criticism. An emotional butthurt response, all because someone takes the articulated position that the Emporor doesn't have clothes on, isn't constructive. IME, it's more what the guy in the back of the room, with hours of nothing more than armchair experience, mumbles.

At least YugoRPK has clarity on his thoughts.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
User avatar
YugoRPK
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6318
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:56 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by YugoRPK »

Why the insistence on keeping a defensive shotgun in the cruiser ready position? You wouldnt keep a home defense handgun in an empty chamber condition unless you had small children around. Why keep your home defense shotgun with one less round in the gun? If you pick it up in the night its going to get a shell chambered anyway. Ive always considered the cruiser ready mode to be an insurance liability thing to prevent ND's from sloppy handling.
Putting the laughter in manslaughter
joshua_
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:33 pm

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by joshua_ »

I have an old 870 that has been good to me for a lot of years. Nothing wrong with it, but if I were going to use a shotgun for personal protection it would be my FN.

Image
rockman96
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 997
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 4:49 am

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by rockman96 »

continuity wrote:Care to share understandings of what your level of trust in an 1100 is based on.

I'm all over constructive criticism. An emotional butthurt response, all because someone takes the articulated position that the Emporor doesn't have clothes on, isn't constructive. IME, it's more what the guy in the back of the room, with hours of nothing more than armchair experience, mumbles.
Ah, relax man, I'm not butthurt in the least. I just really think you're a pompous ass. :lol:
Truth is, I'm not the expert hot-shot like you are (on the assumption that what you tell is accurate.) :wink: But I do ok and have fun with it.

So regarding trust in the 1100... I grew up with a pump and I like pumps, it's just that I like the 1100 better. All I'm saying is that since I've had one, I've come to like that shotgun more than any other that I've ever owned or shot... The reason? It just works, plain and simple. And it works easier. Hits hard and fast, it stays on target, and it's quicker to follow up with. At least for me, or most anyone else. (Sorry, the BS flag goes up when I hear someone claiming they can outshoot a good shooter with a semi, using only a manual action... it's the sort of the thing that needs to be seen, to be taken seriously. Ya know?) The 1100 has proven itself to me to be every bit as reliable as any pump I've ever had, and even more so than one in particular. So for the way I use shotguns, it can't be beat. Fyi, my use ranges from 400+ rounds of busting clays on a Saturday, to just hunting some birds. The only caveat is that it needs to be kept clean and taken care of. But then that goes for pumps too, right?. As far as personal defense with any of them goes, I can't actually speak firsthand... Thank God. I'm just basing it on my general experiences with various shotguns, what I like, and what works for me.

I also like a good SxS too... hell, I like 'em all. I just like the 1100 more. 8)
User avatar
continuity
Elite Member
Posts: 4554
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by continuity »

Appreciate the post rockman96.
rockman96 wrote: Ah, relax man, I'm not butthurt in the least. I just really think you're a pompous ass. :lol:
Truth is, I'm not the expert hot-shot like you are...
Never said I was a hot shot, just good at using a shotgun relative a threat situation. Pompous ass?, I'll suck it up as a perseption, and work on it. If I come off like that, my bad. Not my intent. I'm just a simple deputy sheriff that uses a 12 gauge as an option for day to day situations. I translate that to my home defense needs...
rockman96 wrote: The 1100 has proven itself to me to be every bit as reliable as any pump I've ever had, and even more so than one in particular. So for the way I use shotguns, it can't be beat. Fyi, my use ranges from 400+ rounds of busting clays on a Saturday, to just hunting some birds. The only caveat is that it needs to be kept clean and taken care of. But then that goes for pumps too, right?. As far as personal defense with any of them goes, I can't actually speak firsthand... Thank God. I'm just basing it on my general experiences with various shotguns, what I like, and what works for me.

I also like a good SxS too... hell, I like 'em all. I just like the 1100 more. 8)
Me too. If I was given the option of one firearm, it would be a 12 gauge. Even if you think I'm a pompous ass, you would welcome me in a firefight... primarily because I'm gonna come with a pump 12 gauge.
YugoRPK wrote: Why the insistence on keeping a defensive shotgun in the cruiser ready position? You wouldnt keep a home defense handgun in an empty chamber condition unless you had small children around...
The IDF is an empty chamber operational group. They are experts.
"Cruiser ready" condition means, with a 870, that I'm one motion away from operational. If the weapon isn't used/fired regularly, the operational mechanisms are in the relaxed mode until they are "racked". In our office, I can retreive any 870, from any on scene cruiser, and know that the condition is... cruiser ready, 00 buck in the magazine.
As you comment, it means that the initial handling of the weapon in removal from a holder, lessens the chance of a AD while retrieving it. It also gives the option of alternate amunition feed.

My magazine is 00buck. But I retain the option of shucking in a slug. When I do the injured animal dispatch, it's usually with a slug. Afterwards I've got to go through the process of clearing the weapon, and making it ready for use, but it is what it is.

IMHO, it seems prudent to keep any shotgun in a condition that is not a trigger pull away from discharge. Too much s--t can happen between the "sights on" intentional target, and aquiring said weapon to do so.

Just my 2 cents..

BTW, the only time I've used my shotgun (thank God) to take life, is in the animal dispatch mode.

Thanks for the input guys. Really. I appreciate it.
Last edited by continuity on Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:47 am, edited 5 times in total.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
User avatar
YugoRPK
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6318
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:56 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by YugoRPK »

Well, the IDF has their way and many of the rest of us prefer a cocked and locked position.

Mines got one in the chamber with the big head safety on.
Putting the laughter in manslaughter
rockman96
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 997
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 4:49 am

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by rockman96 »

I want to add one more thing to this...
When I tout the 1100, I'm touting MY 1100. No way would I trust my life to an off the shelf gun of any kind with out wringing it out first. If I absolutely had to trust an unknown arm for whatever reason, I would grab the pump before the 1100. :)
User avatar
continuity
Elite Member
Posts: 4554
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by continuity »

rockman96 wrote:...If I absolutely had to trust an unknown arm for whatever reason, I would grab the pump before the 1100. :)
That's m'boy. :mrgreen:
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
User avatar
continuity
Elite Member
Posts: 4554
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by continuity »

YugoRPK wrote:Well, the IDF has their way and many of the rest of us prefer a cocked and locked position.

Mines got one in the chamber with the big head safety on.
As long as ure comfortable with that...
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
User avatar
continuity
Elite Member
Posts: 4554
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by continuity »

Without any substantive contributions to the thread, I fixed the earlier f'ed up reply formating.

It's the small things in life that make getting up in the morning... or early afternoon... worthwhile. :mrgreen:
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
User avatar
whiterussian1974
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:37 pm
Location: On 8th line of eye chart.

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by whiterussian1974 »

There isn't any poll anymore. Guess it was for limitted time.
I always shot Rem 870 pump w 1oz slugs. Recoil never bothered me.
Now I use a bullpup AK47 with 2 1/8"OD x 6.5"L moderator, TacLight and 100m Laser on rails. I've had it rebarrelled to take 9x39mm. Works like a charm and at less than 400m has great terminal ballistics.
The Darkest Corners of Hell are reserved for those who remain Neutral!-Dante
The Death of One is a Tragedy, a million only a statistic.-Stalin
silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=135314
User avatar
whiterussian1974
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:37 pm
Location: On 8th line of eye chart.

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by whiterussian1974 »

YugoRPK wrote:Why the insistence on keeping a defensive shotgun in the cruiser ready position? Why keep your home defense shotgun with one less round in the gun? Ive always considered the cruiser ready mode to be an insurance liability thing to prevent ND's from sloppy handling.
That's EXACTLY what it's for. County Attorney decides that our lives are worth less than the price of defending a baseless lawsuit.
Also, after decades of use with little maintainance, the sear may slip when executing high speed offroad chases. Nearly zero chance. But near zero is still more than 0.000000%.
Personally I prefer a suppressed bullpup rifle, but that's a personal preferrence. I know that I am in the minority.
The Darkest Corners of Hell are reserved for those who remain Neutral!-Dante
The Death of One is a Tragedy, a million only a statistic.-Stalin
silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=135314
DoctorWho
Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:35 am

Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by DoctorWho »

It were a Sunday morning at the Automotive repair shop and Gas Station, and I was living on the property in an RV, and I heard an Engine cranking, no start since we disconnected the ignition on everything parked there, so I grab my go to Remington 870, chamber empty, staggered slug 00 Buck, and see a guy cranking up a customer car.

So I approach and rack a slug into the chamber, the guy in question knows exactly what that sound is, and gets out of the vehicle, he is the owner of the vehicle, but had not paid for the repairs or called on it and was using spare keys, he admitted to taking the car without paying his bill.

He agreed to settle up with the shop owner however, he first needed to go home and attend to having pooped himself at hearing a shotgun racked.

Now what was that about too much Television ? Everyone that ever heard me rack a shotgun pooped themselves copiously.

Nuff said on this topic.
Post Reply