Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
Any experience with either mentioned? I shouldered a Legacy Escort the other day and I was impressed for a $500 auto loader. I'd only be running buckshot through it so I would imagine that there wouldn't be any issues with cycling......I doubt it likes bird shot or skeet loads but that doesn't concern me. Any experience with either it or the Mossberg 930 blackwater?
Some people are like slinkies......not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
i have a 930 spx and i love it. i have shot well over 500 rounds through it without one problem. Id say at least 90% of that was bird shot while shooting trap. the sights makes hitting clays a little tough but it you can catch them inside 25 yards, there is no problem.
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
I have a cute little Escort 20 ga youth that shoots pretty well. I won it at a Banquet, have held on to it but took it skeet shooting one day and did pretty well with it. It has some funky controls, mag shut off button, the gold button so when I break it out I have to think a little. I have some buckshot on the butt stock for the little woman to shoot marauding bears with if necessary. For me it was free so suits several purposes. The Mossberg is probably a better gun though. Have you looked at the Stoeger 2000 or the CZ 712? There is a pair of them on ARf.com for a good price.
Rereading the post, you can't beat a Mossy 500/590 or a Rem 870. The second hand market is saturated with them and they work.
Rereading the post, you can't beat a Mossy 500/590 or a Rem 870. The second hand market is saturated with them and they work.
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Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
AmenDogtired wrote:... you can't beat a Mossy 500/590 or a Rem 870... they work.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
Get a used Rem 1100... They work even better ('cause they're faster), and you can find them for $350-$400.continuity wrote:AmenDogtired wrote:... you can't beat a Mossy 500/590 or a Rem 870... they work.
I have a 930 SPX... it wasn't worth a s--t until I sent it back to Mossberg. They replaced the elevator and did something else I can't recollect at the moment, but it's 100% now, with birdshot to buckshot. The exception being, the cheap Winchester bulk... it won't cycle those. The 1100 eats everything, and it's dead nuts reliable. Not to mention it's 3x faster than a pump and stays on target easier. If you go this route, start with a new piston and seal and keep it clean.
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Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
Thinking these claims are a tad, no... a huge, exaggeration.rockman96 wrote:... Not to mention it's 3x faster than a pump and stays on target easier...
Will opine that a pump action shotgun has all the advantages of a revolver, and requires less small muscle group dexterity... an especially significant element under duress. A pump action shot gun can be fired faster than a semi auto, and with a bit of training and experience... good things if such a weapon is going to be ones go to in defense of life or that of loved ones... be kept on target as "easily", as a semi-auto.
It is appropriate that a duty ready shotgun be; magazine loaded, chamber empty, bolt closed, hammer down, and safety off. The chambering of a round and manipulation of the bolt release relative a semi-auto shotgun, is slower, and requires more manual dexterity than that of a duty ready pump action shotgun.
Given the option, and relative a force projection need inside the 100 yd. mark, I will choose a 12 gauge pump shotgun to engage any bi-podal threat... absofarkinlutelyeverytime/needtoprojectforce.com. (only exception being my choice of a crew served weapon. )
This is truth. Since we're talking about home defense, inside the 10-30 foot type range and using my 870, will do the weeks salary bet thing for any comers.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
I'm impressed.continuity wrote:Thinking these claims are a tad, no... a huge, exaggeration.rockman96 wrote:... Not to mention it's 3x faster than a pump and stays on target easier...
Will opine that a pump action shotgun has all the advantages of a revolver, and requires less small muscle group dexterity... an especially significant element under duress. A pump action shot gun can be fired faster than a semi auto, and with a bit of training and experience... good things if such a weapon is going to be ones go to in defense of life or that of loved ones... be kept on target as "easily", as a semi-auto.
It is appropriate that a duty ready shotgun be; magazine loaded, chamber empty, bolt closed, hammer down, and safety off. The chambering of a round and manipulation of the bolt release relative a semi-auto shotgun, is slower, and requires more manual dexterity than that of a duty ready pump action shotgun.
Given the option, and relative a force projection need inside the 100 yd. mark, I will choose a 12 gauge pump shotgun to engage any bi-podal threat... absofarkinlutelyeverytime/needtoprojectforce.com. (only exception being my choice of a crew served weapon. )
This is truth. Since we're talking about home defense, inside the 10-30 foot type range and using my 870, will do the weeks salary bet thing for any comers.
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
I keep working through my head how a pump shotgun is going get fired faster than a semiauto. Not getting there.
My semi auto shotguns are every bit as reliable as my semi auto handguns. Ive probably got 5000 rounds through my 11-87 with not a single short cycle or FTF. Are revolvers more reliable than semiauto handguns? Yes, they are . Do I want to carry one or use one in my hallway? Not really.
My semi auto shotguns are every bit as reliable as my semi auto handguns. Ive probably got 5000 rounds through my 11-87 with not a single short cycle or FTF. Are revolvers more reliable than semiauto handguns? Yes, they are . Do I want to carry one or use one in my hallway? Not really.
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Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
The semi auto (anything) cycle rate is limited by the mechanisms gas (limited by sonic velocity in a flow containment environment (i.e. gas tube)) system, including mechanical inertia and sequence of the action. The mechanical inertia delays are present even in a recoil operated system. It's the "in the blink of an eye" on the time line scale, but the mechanical delay(s) are there. A pure, external to shell reliant energy, mechanically operated system, pump shotgun, or revolver, is limited only by the manipulation of the action by the user. That's the physics of it.YugoRPK wrote:I keep working through my head how a pump shotgun is going get fired faster than a semiauto. Not getting there.
My semi auto shotguns are every bit as reliable as my semi auto handguns. Ive probably got 5000 rounds through my 11-87 with not a single short cycle or FTF. Are revolvers more reliable than semiauto handguns? Yes, they are . Do I want to carry one or use one in my hallway? Not really.
(I'm not going into the dud round recognition/recovery of event evolution, here... but it's something to think about... before that point in time where you need to "make it happen" in defense of youself, or your loved ones... LIFE.)
The documented "fastest gun", did/does so using a revolver. (If your googlefu is weak, my special duty rate is $37.28/hr.. PM me a letter of authorization and your visa number. Promise I'll only charge what time I spend.)
We are required to qualify yearly with the 870. One of my patrol partners is a SWAT entry guy who uses a Bennelli as his duty shotgun, even tho he still has to qualify with the 870. While I'm fast, his 3 round target engagement with the 870 sounds like a single report. Interestingly enough, he comes from a Mennonite background. Have witnessed a qualification RO check his shotgun for unfired rounds in disbelief. My offices best bud (at great chagrin from the qualification RO's) shoots the qualification from his hip. While I'm not as fast as either,... to date... when they take the bet, we're still drinking the semi-auto guys beer.
It's a matter of a muscle memory symbiosis in the manipulation of two movements, slide action and trigger release. The "other" part of the mind controls muzzle sweep/target intent. Interestingly enough, each 870 has different... idiosyncrasies, relative action timing and lockup/hammer release action. Each of us is faster with "our" specific 870, than the ones the others use. Not sure all that makes sense, but it's the best I can articulate.
I apologize if I come off sounding arrogant. Not my intention. I'm not good at many things, but I am outstanding at using a shotgun in the threat neutralization venue.
Peace
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
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Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
My life is worth a little more than a legacy shotgun.
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Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
Help me with your basis of thought.66427vette wrote:My life is worth a little more than a legacy shotgun.
The 1911 .45 is (still) a prefered sidearm by elements of the US armed force(s). Same goes for the M2 .50 cal. They are still used by elements of, or in general deployment by, the highest tech military in the world. Most police cruisers/prisons/armored car units, in the US are still outfitted with a 870, or Mossberg 500.
Legacy firearms? There are many entities responsible for force projection that would use "the functionaly able in extreme condition(s)", descriptor for such weapons.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
I have the standard 930 and finally just shot it for the first time yesterday. I added the extension tube so its 7+1. I was super nervous because of all the internet commando's who had issues with it. I shot probably 200 bird shot and buckshot rounds through and only had ONE issue. That was when I was not shouldering it and shooting it with the ejection port DIRECTLY up in the air...Basically trying to get it to jam. It did ONCE.
I was also using the CHEAPEST Winchester ammo from Wal Mart possible.
I have a HUGE love now for semi auto shotguns AND for this gun. It has made its way closer to the front of the safe rather in the back dark corner.
I was also using the CHEAPEST Winchester ammo from Wal Mart possible.
I have a HUGE love now for semi auto shotguns AND for this gun. It has made its way closer to the front of the safe rather in the back dark corner.
ol' 30-30 wrote:Any experience with either mentioned? I shouldered a Legacy Escort the other day and I was impressed for a $500 auto loader. I'd only be running buckshot through it so I would imagine that there wouldn't be any issues with cycling......I doubt it likes bird shot or skeet loads but that doesn't concern me. Any experience with either it or the Mossberg 930 blackwater?
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
I'm sure all the advocates of pumps over semi auto's also only use wheel guns or derringers and would never trust a semi auto rifle or pistol.
Putting the laughter in manslaughter
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Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
That comment was beneath you bro.YugoRPK wrote:I'm sure all the advocates of pumps over semi auto's also only use wheel guns or derringers and would never trust a semi auto rifle or pistol.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
So how many derringers are on your duty rig?continuity wrote:That comment was beneath you bro.YugoRPK wrote:I'm sure all the advocates of pumps over semi auto's also only use wheel guns or derringers and would never trust a semi auto rifle or pistol.
Putting the laughter in manslaughter
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Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
Ok... I'll play. None.
Stick to the functionally practical tool array. Same goes for the cramped real estate in the cruiser... that's why I have a 12G pump in there.
Stick to the functionally practical tool array. Same goes for the cramped real estate in the cruiser... that's why I have a 12G pump in there.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
Here I fixed it for ya: http://www.absofarkinlutelyeverytime/ne ... tforce.comcontinuity wrote:... absofarkinlutelyeverytime/needtoprojectforce.com.
BTW your server must be down, the link don't work.
[url=http://militarysignatures.com][img]http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member1236.png[/img][/url]
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
There is less to go wrong in a pump then a semi auto. I think that is the reason PD's still prefer those. Because a jammed shotgun could mean a dead officer...
The USMC recently decided to go back to the .45 1911. Which to me is PURELY choosing heritage over ANY OTHER Factor. The 1911 is gorgeous, I have a Kimber and LOVE it. However the Glock and S&W M&P's are cheaper, arguably as if not more reliable and hold TWICE the amount of rounds...which should be a MAJOR factor in their decision. I think the 1911 is sort of outdated and not the best combat sidearm. (just my opinion).
But I would NOT say that the 1911 is preffered by elements of the US armed forces, but just a small minority. Most Operators I have encountered are using the polymer guns or the Sig's... NOT 1911's.
The USMC recently decided to go back to the .45 1911. Which to me is PURELY choosing heritage over ANY OTHER Factor. The 1911 is gorgeous, I have a Kimber and LOVE it. However the Glock and S&W M&P's are cheaper, arguably as if not more reliable and hold TWICE the amount of rounds...which should be a MAJOR factor in their decision. I think the 1911 is sort of outdated and not the best combat sidearm. (just my opinion).
But I would NOT say that the 1911 is preffered by elements of the US armed forces, but just a small minority. Most Operators I have encountered are using the polymer guns or the Sig's... NOT 1911's.
continuity wrote:Help me with your basis of thought.66427vette wrote:My life is worth a little more than a legacy shotgun.
The 1911 .45 is (still) a prefered sidearm by elements of the US armed force(s). Same goes for the M2 .50 cal. They are still used by elements of, or in general deployment by, the highest tech military in the world. Most police cruisers/prisons/armored car units, in the US are still outfitted with a 870, or Mossberg 500.
Legacy firearms? There are many entities responsible for force projection that would use "the functionaly able in extreme condition(s)", descriptor for such weapons.
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
Less to go wrong in a lever action vs a semi, that's Why PD's don't use ar-15s....Oh wait.Dennisrl wrote:There is less to go wrong in a pump then a semi auto. I think that is the reason PD's still prefer those. Because a jammed shotgun could mean a dead officer...
sis of thought.
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
srt-4_uk wrote:Less to go wrong in a lever action vs a semi, that's Why PD's don't use ar-15s....Oh wait.Dennisrl wrote:There is less to go wrong in a pump then a semi auto. I think that is the reason PD's still prefer those. Because a jammed shotgun could mean a dead officer...
sis of thought.
Yeah, If I had a nickle for every time my M2 or my 11-87 jammed on me I'd be broke. I could handily buy lunch and a nice tip for the waitress ( which would be totally unlike me ) with whatever I get from the AR-15 jar of nickles.
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Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
Agree with a passion.Dennisrl wrote:There is less to go wrong in a pump then a semi auto...
I think you just hit the proverbial, desk sitting bureaucratic decision maker, focus, nail on the head....Dennisrl wrote:... The USMC recently decided to go back to the .45 1911... However the Glock and S&W M&P's are cheaper,...
I'll not call ure credentials into question. And I understand most "off shore" supportive contract groups require "glock" ability/proficiency. That doesn't address the "most effective" combat firearm option. But then again, operation proficiency takes many forms.Dennisrl wrote:... Most Operators I have encountered are using the polymer guns or the Sig's... NOT 1911's...
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
srt-4_uk wrote:Less to go wrong in a lever action vs a semi, that's Why PD's don't use ar-15s....Oh wait.Dennisrl wrote:There is less to go wrong in a pump then a semi auto. I think that is the reason PD's still prefer those. Because a jammed shotgun could mean a dead officer...
sis of thought.
One could argue that the semi auto pistol has been perfected ALOT more then the semi auto shotgun... Truly I have a semi auto and love it... It seems very reliable and I would trust it...
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Re: Cheap HD shotgun (Mossberg 930.....Legacy Escort....)
Then if you "would" trust it... and if I might say so, your liguistics betray your heart, then do so. Make sure in your heart of hearts way, that you do... before that moment where you absolutely have to.Dennisrl wrote:... Truly I have a semi auto and love it... It seems very reliable and I would trust it...
I trust a pump shotgun because... I absolutely do, bet my life on it.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick