Quick Load Questions

[mpallett]

So I'm running some quick load calculations and I seeing stuff that I just don't understand.

If I take inputs directly from the Accurate loading guide, minimum loads, I get results that say "DANGER Overpressure Don't use"

Am I doing something wrong?

For example:

Reinier 250 Grain FP LC, AA # 5 the start load is 6.2 grains with a COL of 1.212 this should result in a velocity of 731 fps out of a 6" barrel.

Max pressure of ~22k at a max load of 7.3 gr

Quick load gives really different results.


The loads that I have actually shot sound scary and they are not. They they do not break the sound barrier (I'm shooting suppressed ... ). They hit the steel plates and pins with authority, but they are not bad.

Reinier 250 Grain FP LC, AA # 5 8.5 grains, 16 in barrel. This should give ~43k max pressure and ~1287 fps.


The pistol load I've shot for years sounds bad as well: 8.5 grains #5, 230 grain FMJ, COL 1.25 - again over max pressure, over 1000 fps.

I shot someone elses reloads as well. I could have thrown the bullet faster. (It was really really quiet). 5 grains of Titegroup, 230 RN lead, COL at 1.25in. Quick load says over pressure etc.

Am I doing something wrong?

[johndoe3]

No, you aren't doing anything wrong, but relying on some default settings in Quickload that are causing the issue.

Reinier 250 Grain FP LC, AA # 5 the start load is 6.2 grains with a COL of 1.212 this should result in a velocity of 731 fps out of a 6" barrel.

The AA Reloading manual online shows this to be out of a 5" barrel (not 6).

You need to make sure that your inputs are correct for selected cartridge, bullet used, barrel length, cartridge length (COL/COAL), and powder. Users of QL make it much more accurate then, by correcting default data for actual. By far the most important is "Maximum Case Capacity, overflow" in Grains H2O.

If you selected the 45 ACP (or 45 ACP +P), the default QL brass capacity in H2O is 25.00 grains. With most 45 ACP ammo I use, the capacity is actually 26.5 grains of H2O. If you use 25.0 grains, the reduced case capacity is giving you pressures too high. Increase it to 26.5 grains and you'll see the lower chamber pressures in the region you expect (and lower velocities).

With rifle ammo, getting the H2O capacity of the brass correct makes all the difference in the world. So...how do you measure H2O capacity for your actual brass--easy peasy. First, the brass needs to have a primer seated. Then weigh the brass empty (clean or not), then fill it with water even to the lip and weigh it again. The Difference between the 2 weights is the H2O capacity of your brass. This process doesn't take much time, and I usually measure the H2O capacity for 5 cases and average them. You only have to do this once, if you write down the actual H2O capacity in a notebook.

Oh, if you have new primers in your brass and want to weigh the H2O capacity of the brass, just do it. Then dump out the water and whip the brass to get as much water out as possible. Then let sit for a few days to dry out. I have done this and 100% of the primers worked perfectly in loads later.

Next, the Weighting Factor can be slightly tweaked to make it more accurate--works especially well for Rifle loads. When I do these things, (accurate H2O capacity and tweak WF,) for instance, my full power 308 loads have often come out to ~20 fps of actual. That's incredibly precise. On the other hand, 308 subsonic loads using Trailboss powder are more of a problem for me (giving velocities 100-150 fps higher in Quickload, than as shot through a chronograph). 308 brass varies considerably in H2O capacity by manufacturer, so since long range accuracy is my thing, I sort my 308 brass by manufacturer and weigh the H2O capacity of each type. However, since I mostly use Lake City brass for 308 (I have a few thousand), measuring H2O capacity once for them is sufficient.

BTW, you're learning Quickload the right way, which is to imitate factory loads and see how close you can simulate the results. I simulated a number of the AA reloading manual loads for 45 ACP and using AA#5, (185 and 200 gr bullets) and I was close to the load manual data, while the 250gr load in QL was off more from the printed results than for 185/200 gr bullets. Maybe the COL in the loading manual is off for the 250gr bullet (using higher than 1.212" in QL gives me better results, which suggests to me that maybe it was a data error in their loading manual, since the 185/200gr bullet results were close to what I simulated in QL).

BTW, Joe D'Alessandro up in your neck of the woods at Real Guns.com (writes for Brownells too) uses Quickload for all his published loads on his website and compares to actual results. His handgun loads are close between QL and actual results. Lots of actual free load data for all manner of calibers on his website.

http://www.realguns.com/

[mpallett]

Thank you sir.
I've been playing quite a bit with it ans some o it still doesn't make much sense.
I'm going to figure out the capacity of the cases and I ordered a chronograph.

Once I get it "down" and figure out what works I think I'll be all set.

Thoughts on AA #5 vs Titegroup?

[johndoe3]

Thoughts on AA #5 vs Titegroup?

I'm not going to answer that, since you have the tools to simulate it.

However, there is an invaluable part of Quickload that you may not have played with yet, that in one sweep compares all possible powders and gives you a list from best downwards. You select it in the menus: OPTIONS--Setup propellant table.

It uses all the info put into your main screens. Keep in mind that you may have to move the sliders for <-Slow, and Fast-> to not exclude relevant powders.
1. click the button to select: Both Settings Above (default)
2. in "a Nominal Maximum Pressure" put in 23000 for 45 ACP +P
3. in "Usable Case Capacity Filled up to" put 100

4. Then click the Apply&Exit button and it generates the table.

This feature is what everyone raves about with Quickload because you quickly see what all the best powders are so that you can substitute whatever you have on hand or can easily get. For handgun loads, I look carefully at the "Prop. Burnt %" column, since what I want is optimal speed and as close to 100% burn in the barrel for minimal exterior burn of powder (flash). If I can get minimal flash and top velocity, then I look for a powder that is below the max chamber pressure (P max psi), the next column over.

As an example of the above, take my 460 Rowland loads. I wanted a lower flash powder for defense loads in 460 Rowland, because the 2 powders for maximum velocity both give large fireballs in a 5.5" barrel (Power Pistol and AA#7). Using the feature above in Quickload for 185gr HP bullets, the defense load is ~1400 fps and 800 ft.lbs, versus the full power load of 1550fps and 1000 ft.lbs. With my 1911 that has a compensator on the barrel, the defense loads seem mild for recoil as compared to the full power loads (but both are OK to shoot).

Using Quickload, I saw a powder that I never would have considered for use in 460 Rowland, which was VihtaVuori 3N37. I can use 3N37 and get 97.4% burn in the barrel and 1403fps (810 ft.lbs) and do that with a chamber pressure of only 33627 psi (versus 39000 psi for max loads). So...I bought VV 3N37 and it works very well (and also works for 147gr 9mm and for 45 ACP +P). There is scant info for loading 460 Rowland anywhere, and no one had ever mentioned use of VV 3N37. Quickload excels in quickly finding the best powders to use in situations like this.

[mpallett]

I will play with those options.

What I liked about the TiteGroup loads were that it was a 100% burn in a very short barrel. AA #5 not so much.

- Matthew

[Fulmen]

I second the advice about measuring case capacity. Just remember to measure a fired round, it can make a small difference. Other than that, try to fiddle with start pressure and turn on long barrel friction.

QL isn't magic, it can't simulate all real-life conditions. Some experience with both the round and the gun makes it easier to interpret the results.