Just got my Delta P Brevis AK can

[aries14482]

I finally got my paperwork back and picked up my can. This is one of Delta P's 7.62x39 AK cans that works with AK-74 type threads.

A friend today arranged to meet me at his property to shoot. He only had a little while to shoot before needing to leave, so we put a few rounds down range at a time, concentrating on things like the way the rifle sounded when standing different distances from the shooter, noting muzzle rise and comparing to the '74 compensator, and attempting to determine at what distance the sound of the bullet flight overcame the "pop" from the rifle.

Since the can is being used with a 16" 5.56 barrel, but is intended for 7.62x39, and since it also features a unique, progressively larger-bore baffle setup to eliminate issues with baffle strikes due to '74 type threaded FSBs frequently not being perfectly parallel with the bore (the diameter of the end cap orifice is about 1/2"), I wasn't expecting a super quiet can.

Without having another can and rifle to compare it with (this is the first can I have owned and only the third I've shot with), I can't tell how it compares for sound suppression, but I was able to note the following:

• Shooting about 20 rounds without earpro did not cause ringing of the ears, but did cause just enough of a "spike" each shot to make me think it is not hearing safe. It seemed to fall somewhere between a .22 pistol and rifle in the way it made me feel- like it wouldn't bother me shooting for a little while, but an extended session might leave me with a slight headache.

• When standing roughly 25 yards away to the shooter's 4 o' clock, the "Pop" seemed to be mostly or totally overwhelmed by the traveling and impact sounds of the round, as the berm was only about 30 yards away from shooter. Those sounds were clearly louder and drew more attention to the impact area than to the weapon itself.

• There was no feeling at all of having gas blown up the nose! I imagine the larger bore along with the larger than average diameter of the can is responsible for this. It completely lacked any semblance to my gas nose experience firing an M4 with a tac16.

• It's weight of just under 20.5 oz compares favorably with AAC's M42000, when you factor in the flashhider/adapter needed for the AAC can (total weight 21.4 oz), and did not completely overwhelm the balance of the rifle. It balances right at the "heel" of the standard black AK-74m type plastic handguard with the suppressor attached. Without the can, it balances about 1/2" in fron of the magazine.

• The Brevis' length of roughly 5.5" is nice, since it only adds about 2" to the overall length compared to a '74 compensator.

• The Brevis makes use of the spring loaded pin on the FSB to prevent it from unscrewing, so it has the one advantage of a quick detach can that interested me.

Overall I'm pleased and can't wait to try it in our local multigun match.

[Solothurn]

The detent lock is my favorite feature of the Brevis AK. I haven't shot mine on a 5.56 yet, but it sounds good on the 7.62x39mm.

[Wahnsinn]

Where did you find out about this AK variant? Checked their site, but didn't see anything (just a 308 can, assuming not the same).

Thanks.

Tim

[Solothurn]

It was a limited production that Byron did last year.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68101

[aries14482]

The last time I spoke to him, I got the impression that he'd be open to the idea of making more if there was sufficient interest.

He's a great guy to talk to. I suggest giving him a call if you are sure you're interested.

He really is quite personable.

[aries14482]

You can't really tell in the muzzle-on pic, but the "bore" of the can gets progressively smaller from the endcap to the blast baffle. I don't have a tool to measure it at the blast baffle, but it seems consistent with the bore size of other .30 cal cans. The opening in the endcap is almost exactly .50"

The blast baffle is inconel

[aries14482]

A second, more extensive outing with the can has shown it to be a disappointment.

I have further tested my SLR-106/Brevis 7.62x39 and the performance was disappointing to say the least. I had a friend fire while I stood 100 yards away, with a building in between us. The SLR-106 with Brevis 7.62x39 mounted sounded more like a long-barreled shotgun firing birdshot. I have yet to compare it side-by-side with another can, but from memory, a Tac16 on an AR15 produces a significantly less noticeable report- more like a .22 pistol with louder bullet travel sound and impact.

A 3-4" fireball could be seen emitting from the endcap as it began to get dark near the end of the range session.

I discovered that the baffles are, in fact, not progressive: the blast baffle and next baffle are what you'd expect for a .30 can and the remaining baffles all have roughly .50" diameter openings. I imagine it would perform better with a 7.62 AK103-type AK, but with the smaller 5.56 it just doesn't work well at all.

I spoke with Byron about the situation and he was quite sympathetic, but unfortunately stated that, due to the construction method used in the can, he can't do anything to modify it (replace the .50" diameter baffles with .30 cal baffles or similar). Byron did make an attempt to make things right and was quite polite and understanding, but the only thing I was interested in was a way to get what I wanted without buying another product, paying another tax and waiting period, which seems can't be done. He further offered to take the can back for what I payed him for it, though I'd still have to pay to have it transferred back. I'm considering this.

Unfortunately, six months of anticipation and over $1000 invested ending with a flop, knowing that remedying the situation is going to require writing this can off as a loss (or half loss, if I decide to send it back), another large sum of money and a six month wait, makes for a real let down.

[Wahnsinn]

Well that's no fun, let us know what you end up with though.

[aries14482]

Unfortunately, I no longer have a job so it's going to be a while before I can replace it with anything else.

[aries14482]

Ok, I've learned some things and need to clarify some others:

1. Sound suppressors are not usually efficient flash suppressors. I watched a video that showed a Gemtech Halo (a 5.56 can) mounted to a chinese .223 AK fired in daylight and saw flash from the end of the can. Comments from others confirm that flash suppression shouldn't be among your list of expectations with a sound suppressor unless it is designed to to do that as well.

So, my concern over the flash from this can was unwarranted.

2. Delta P is great to work with. I spoke with Byron about my misunderstanding and disappointment and he was quite eager to see me satisfied. I'm going to perform a few more subjective tests beside another can both super and sub sonic and see if I can find satisfaction in what this can does do. If not, Byron offered to work with me to find an acceptable solution.

3. The issues that I'm experiencing are because of a misunderstanding/miscommunication about the capabilities of this can. My experience with this particular can shouldn't be taken as a reflection of the overall quality of Delta P's other offerings.

At the reference point (measured 90* to the muzzle) the Delta P cans seem to run middle of the road for suppression performance. However, when measured at the shooter's ear, the performance is nearly on-par with higher-end cans. I don't understand how this works, but Byron did mention that the cans were specifically designed to produce this result.

The main reason I'd choose a Delta P can is if I wanted a shorter-than-normal length with similar performance at the ear as a full-size can.

[STL/N.E.R.D.S.]

One of those + one of these = nice set up.. certainly would take the edge off... anyone tried this combo?

[gunguy]

Looks like a Vector? I really like those little AK's, I live an hour away from those guys and stopped and checked one out in person; what a sweet gun. As far as the Delts can goes just get you a Draco pistol and shoot the s--t out of it!

[STL/N.E.R.D.S.]

Yep Vector, still a virgin, got a few sbr's in a while back and just haven't tried to move this one, or shoot it. Real nice workmanship.

[aries14482]

I tried the can out on a 7.62x39 AK and there was no noticeable improvement over the 5.56.

Here's a smartphone vid with my 5.56 Arsenal shot side-by-side with a 10.5" AR with Coastal 5.56 can and a 16" AR with Surefire 212.
The order was Coastal, Surefire, Delta P. You can hear the muzzle report is loud enough to bounce off the side berms and back to the mic with the AK, but not with the other two. Still quieter than without a suppressor, which helps communication while shooting, but not enough to attain the "badguy doesn't know where the shot originated from" effect- at least at 40 yards distance, which I tried off-camera during a previous test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th59BUW9 ... er&list=UL

I'm returning the can to Byron for a refund. I have nothing bad to say about Byron or Delta P as I've been shown excellent support and customer service.

If you wanted a short 7.62 can, needed it to work on 24mm threads without modification or fitting, and only wanted the can to help tame the blast to help with communication, The AK Brevis might work for you.

I've come to believe that the only decent way to get a can on an AK is to have concentric threads cut into the barrel and mount an existing suppressor.

Someone also needs to come up with a way to regulate the gas on a suppressed AK. Even with the overbore Delta P can, I had to use a Wolff "+" recoil spring to ease issues with feeding and extraction related malfunctions.

[wacki]

I've come to believe that the only decent way to get a can on an AK is to have concentric threads cut into the barrel and mount an existing suppressor.

Why is this?

Someone also needs to come up with a way to regulate the gas on a suppressed AK. Even with the overbore Delta P can, I had to use a Wolff "+" recoil spring to ease issues with feeding and extraction related malfunctions.

Is this what you are talking about? 85276

[wacki]

How big of a difference is there between the AK and the 7.62 can?

[aries14482]

I now think that something similar to CNC Warrior's 1/2 x 28 adapter might work, but it needs to be able to index off of the muzzle. This option leaves adds weight though, while the threading option removes it. This is something to consider, since AKs are quite muzzle heavy already.

Yes, that is the spring I used. Actually, I've been using it without the can since I sent it back and it works fine unsuppressed. I'm still somewhat concerned that it isn't enough to prevent a lot of premature wear on the locking lugs and bolt during unlocking though. I really think gas adjustment is the best solution.

The difference between Delta P's AK can and their 7.62 can? It'd be a pretty big difference. The 7.62 can would be much more quiet, as would either of their 5.56 cans.