AK or SKS for SHTF

apochachuva · Post by **apochachuva** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:36 am

I know people knock WASR's a lot, but they're not that bad in my experience. Not the best choice obviously, but I've had very good luck with several of them. Accuracy isn't the best but they can do minute of man pretty easily

Sylord · Post by **Sylord** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:23 pm

Thinking what if SHTF - I have a few firearms bagged and ready with a moderate amount of ammunition near the exit and in our vehicles.

My bug out bag includes: (2) 9mm Pistols, Minimal recoil, wife can shoot them well. 9 loaded magazines (137 rounds total). I do rotate them.
(2) 1911 style pistols. Smaller magazines, better knock down, wife can shoot, but doesn't like to.
AR15 rifles. Better accuracy than the SKS or AK. Pros-less recoil, better variety of ammo. Magazines cheaper, and easier to find. More aftermarket parts, easier to mod to your liking. Rails allow lasers, lights, bi-pods, scopes, etc. Almost anyone military has used or has shot one. Con- Greater initial cost, must be cleaned.

If I had to choose between the AK or the SKS, I would take a milled AK. More accurate, and reliable even when buried in sand. The AR would not take that, but then again, the AK can't do 500 yard+ shots reliably. Also, magazines on the AK are more common compared to SKS with a magazine, as many SKS magazines are garbage, and stripper clips are slower than changing a magazine any day. SKS do win on price at $125ish. Mak-90's are $250ish with milled receivers. There are better, but I'm cheap, and mine are reliable or I sell them off. WASR-10 clones fall apart or rattle like a baby toy. Loose tolerance makes they work when dirty, but loose accuracy!

I think of it realistically. If SHTF I cannot carry 10k rounds in 4 calibers with me. 9mm is common, and lighter than 357, 44 or 45. 22 lr will do the job for hunting, or a well placed shot for a kill on larger critters, and again common and easyt to find. 550 rounds is small enough I could carry 1000 rounds in a small container. .223 /5.56 is NATO and again common; 7.62x39 is more common now, but still not carried at most of the local sporting good stores out here.

If SHTF, I would want a firearm that I could find ammunition for if I ran out or ran low. I don't want to spray and pray either, I would rather hit from a distance, and stay out of sight. I want a follow up shot, but still accurate at a distance. I want reliability.

What good is any firearm if you can't find ammunition for it?

Darrell

chevrofreak · Post by **chevrofreak** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:21 am

Sylord wrote:better knock down

Myth

Sylord wrote:SKS do win on price at $125ish. Mak-90's are $250ish with milled receivers.

If you can actually find those guns at those prices, buy every single one of them. That's way below current market value.

Sylord · Post by **Sylord** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:44 am

Sylord wrote:
>>better knock down
>Myth

More mass to a 45, still moves faster than I can run. Rather not get hit by either, but more mass means more transfered energy. To me, thats better knock down power.

Sylord wrote:
>>SKS do win on price at $125ish. Mak-90's are $250ish with milled receivers.

If you can actually find those guns at those prices, buy every single one of them. That's way below current market value.

C&R's can get Yugos for $149 all day from dealers and importers, I picked one up for $99 at the gunshow over the weekend, but normally I see them for $125ish. Got lucky and have gotten a Chinese and Russian for under $150 each in excellent condition.

I also picked up a Mak-90, a milled AK style rifle for $200 at a small local shop. Also saw 2 for $250 at the gun show last weekend. Have also seen some for $450, they sit for long periods of time and never sell.

chevrofreak · Post by **chevrofreak** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:36 am

The extra mass of a heavier bullet makes it drop a steel plate faster, but people aren't steel plates.

Energy transfer has pretty much been disproven. A properly designed bullet traveling at the speed it's designed to operate at (like the newer hollowpoints) will perform better than an old tech JHP that's driven entirely too fast or entirely too slow. Too slow and it won't open, too fast and it will fold back on itself, causing less tissue damage. The super fast, light weight bullets will dump more energy into the target since they have more kinetic energy, and usually fragment all to hell. If they do that without hitting a vital organ then all that energy was just wasted.

A well designed bullet will open as designed, not over expanding or underexpanding and will penetrate deep enough to do damage to vital organs. New stuff like the Federal HST and Winchester Ranger T have leveled the playing field for .45ACP, .40S&W and 9mm Luger.

kycrawler · Post by **kycrawler** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:38 pm

in that situation i know any ammo i can get for my 45 will punch atleast a .45 hole in the target , if you cant get 9 mm quality ammo you may be stuck with crappy ball , 9 mm may expand to 45 dia but 45 will never shrink

i do have jhp's for my 45 as a carry and defense load but my practice/plinking load of lee 230 gr tc cast lead over 4.2 gr of bullseye would work nearly as well and at about $32 per k to load them i can afford to practice and stay profficent

Elokoman · Post by **Elokoman** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:11 am

SKS is a great weapon for the money.

Personally, while I enjoy shooting the SKS, if I had to grab one gun for defending my family, I would feel more confident with either the AK or the AR.

I have a SAR-1, picked it up used for $400, absolutely no issues. Has the scope rail so it works well for adding the optics as funds allow. Can also put a sidefolder on it for easier mobility in vehicles if necessary. Use some Wolf Military Classic Hollow points and you have a system that will serve well.

chipmechanic · Post by **chipmechanic** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:13 pm

lawless101aa wrote:
chevrofreak wrote:
The AR15 isn't an option because I despise those poorly designed pieces of s--t (the one exception would be an AR with a gas piston).
Have you ever even owned an AR15, Because I only expect this from people who have never owned one and are trying to be a badass or they just cant afford one. The AR system is awesome, you sound like you read a few books, or watched a tv show about the early AR15 and based your opinions on it. Ive been shooting AR's for probably 6 years now and not one of my AR's has jammed as many times as my pos WASR guns. What about it is a poorly designed piece of s--t? I have a hard time finding it. Besides they must have something right since its been our weapon of choice for over 40 years now.

Ive owned several and carried one in the Army during peace time and while at war and sometimes you get a good one. Sometimes you get a total hunk of s--t that wont fire 3 rounds without jamming. Gets real bad real fast in the desert. Hated mine during Bush War One. The AK's would eat that kind of environment up.

lawless · Post by **lawless** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:29 pm

Then you were in a low bugdet poorly trained unit. The people before you didnt take care of that weapon. If you had any kind of combat capacity they wouldnt have put you there with a shitty weapon. The guys that need them have stuff that works. The mechanics and other guys that dont need them get the shitty end.

chipmechanic · Post by **chipmechanic** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:49 am

Don't give me that s--t. I was a Chemical Weapons Technical Escort attached to the Czech NBC Garrison along with 3 other chemical guys and a few squads of 11B's and I had a new A2 right out of the box and it still crapped out as soon as it got dirty. The Czechs would let me borrow their guns they felt so sorry for me.

lawless · Post by **lawless** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:55 am

See my second part of that. Poorly trained. You never pick up a new rifle right from the box and expect it to function. You always break it in with a couple thousand rounds of ammo. Also you were not in the capacity where you needed them. You shot missles not people. You were probably trained to shoot your missles accurately. Your weapons, not so much.

chipmechanic · Post by **chipmechanic** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:10 pm

I spent 2/3 of the time I was in the Army on TDY training missions and had more skill identifiers than I can remember. If there was anyone in the Army outside of Special Forces, whom I had also been attached to as a trainer on a few occasions , that had more specialized weapons training, I'd like to meet him. I spent the beginning of the war attached to the 32nd AADCOM until the patriot missiles were done firing and then the rest of the next year in Kuwait on the ground with the Czechs and believe me they had much looser rules of engagement. The M-16 was a good gun as long as it was clean but in the environment we were all in it didnt fare to well. Most of the times I was with the Czechs I carried a VZ-58.

3101 · Post by **3101** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:17 pm

back on topic....for now anyway....
I have a Yugo SKS and a ready supply of ammo on strippers that keep around the house.....I like the rifle, it is simple, accurate enough to defend the house or keep the two legged varmints at bay...for most encounters in this country the 10 round factory mag is plenty enough.....
Anyone else in the house can use it with little training...
Ammo is universally available, and there are no mags to keep up with....
It ain't my go to gun, but it is a good option for the price....
I also have a D model that accepts AK mags with a folding stock...again, easy to work on, etc.....

chipmechanic · Post by **chipmechanic** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:23 pm

Well I think we have established that if you get an AR-15 make sure you put a couple of thousand rounds through it or it won't function reliably.

Personally I'll take an AK but the best gun to use is a Daewoo K-2 IMHO. Its got the accuracy of the AR-15 and the reliablity of an AK.

lawless · Post by **lawless** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:52 pm

chipmechanic wrote:Well I think we have established that if you get an AR-15 make sure you put a couple of thousand rounds through it or it won't function reliably.

Personally I'll take an AK but the best gun to use is a Daewoo K-2 IMHO. Its got the accuracy of the AR-15 and the reliablity of an AK.

Not at all. Id put a couple thousand rounds through any weapon that I thought I may use daily in firefights. Not any old AR. Youre twisting words around. And my anwer to the Question SKS or AK is definetly AK.

ambivolent · Post by **ambivolent** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:03 pm

well i own both of these rifles, i can say upon my experience that the sks is a more accurate weapon opposed to the ak 47 as for reliability the ak takes the cake, but then comes the point if ammunition supply if the SHTF most likely any one of us wouldn't be able to go to the local ammo shop to pick up more rounds as the store owner will have either locked himself in his shop with one helluva supply to hold himself over for a good amount of time or moved his supply to a nice safe spot, so with that said you gotta think about the possibility capture of invading forces munitions and the caliber of weapon they use, it might e more useful to have a weapon chambered in a more available cartridge.

Since i live in a more urban environment uber long range snipes would be out of the question but i would have such a weapon in a safe place just in case so for me it comes down to close quarter combat thats where the ak comes in it is generally a shorter weapon that you would want to properly maneuver through rooms and what not, the ak is roughly 35 inches long with a fixed stock and about 27" with a folding stock where an sks is around 40 inches long with a fixed stock and about 32 inches long with a folding stock

Davo5o · Post by **Davo5o** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:38 pm

AK, all Day, every Day!!!

Almost all of my AKs are built by one of the best unknown builders in the nation. Century arms POS guns are what give the AK a bad name in this country. Having anything built on a milled receiver or at least a 1.7 DC Industries Gen II or better gives Americans a very high quality product. Bulgarian, Hungarian, Polish, Russian parts kits can still be found new for a decent price and deliver excellent accuracy potential. The AK is and will always be one of the best battle weapons, period.

Lawless, even you are having several built for your collection. I'm not saying they're your "go to guns", but I'm just saying.

lawless · Post by **lawless** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:19 pm

Oh I love AK's, I just think that the AR-15 is also one of the best players out there. Where it can be hard to be 100% with it is nesty conditions, it more than makes oup for it with modularity.

Hush · Post by **Hush** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:10 pm

Well this thread certainly had been an interesting read so far.
I remember when they first were importing AK's into the country I was looking around in a gunshop and BS'ing with the owner and he says hey, if your looking for a bargain Let me show you these AK's I just got in, I let you have 'em for $60.00 apiece, so I looked one over and wasn't impressed with the looks and passed it up saying no thanks but now I wish I bought three of four of them, one for me and the others to sell in the future which would be about now, ah well, the things we coulda or shoulda done? You know whats said about hindsight.

3101 · Post by **3101** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:12 pm

Hush, I know where there is a warehouse full of the damn things, NICE AK's....can't sell 'em, can't send 'em back....

Hush · Post by **Hush** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:22 pm

GaLEO wrote:Hush, I know where there is a warehouse full of the damn things, NICE AK's....can't sell 'em, can't send 'em back....

Well thats a damn shame, someone's money all tied up like that.
I guess the owner/s tried everything to free them up? Lot of parts there.
Someone will make out eventually.

Davo5o · Post by **Davo5o** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:27 pm

Hush wrote:
GaLEO wrote:Hush, I know where there is a warehouse full of the damn things, NICE AK's....can't sell 'em, can't send 'em back....
Well thats a damn shame, someone's money all tied up like that.
I guess the owner/s tried everything to free them up? Lot of parts there.
Someone will make out eventually.

You're talking about your evidence room, right??

3101 · Post by **3101** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:37 pm

My evidence room isn't NEARLY that big........
I was stunned when I saw it....
PALLETS (not MATT PALLETTS) of AKs.....

ambivolent · Post by **ambivolent** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:51 pm

wow pallets what a shame, only if there was a way to release em...

Hush · Post by **Hush** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:34 pm

More than likely a BATFE warehouse? If so it must have been a hell of a raid.

lol