Bears
Bears
I live in Montana, and if you go into the mountains very far you are
guaranteed to see a bear. Usually you are lucky enough to run into a
black bear instead of a grizzly around here though. What would be your weapon of choice if a bear was to attack? doesnt have to be a gun, just something that you own that you think would be pretty effective...
guaranteed to see a bear. Usually you are lucky enough to run into a
black bear instead of a grizzly around here though. What would be your weapon of choice if a bear was to attack? doesnt have to be a gun, just something that you own that you think would be pretty effective...
-
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 4679
- Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:49 pm
- Location: Artesia, NM
-
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 610
- Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:14 pm
- Location: Chambersburg, PA
-
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 610
- Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:14 pm
- Location: Chambersburg, PA
-
- Silent Operator
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:43 am
- Location: Bering Sea & Gulf of alaska, via Ketchikan
Actually Bear Mace has a good track record up here, however the urge to use it on the hippies and tourists has kept me from buying a new can. (You can't take it through Canada) Most people carry a .44 mag or 12 gage with slugs, personally I carry an old Ruger in .41 mag with a 250 gr hard cast lead at around 1450 fps. However I rarely run into bears that have any interest in people while out in the woods.
If a black bear charges you kill it.
If a griz charges you, play dead and s--t yourself.
Pepper spray first.
Semi Auto 308 next, or saiga 12 loaded with slugs.
230gr WFNGC 10mm in G20 is what I carry. Penetrates 36" of pine board which is about like a 30-06.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalo ... cts_id=158
Just because you shoot it, doesn't mean it will die before it kills you.
Best advice is don't sneak around in the woods, covering up your sent, and then adding other sent to smell like a deer or elk. This is why bow hunters in MT get attacked a lot. Last year at least 4 that I know of.
Make a lot of noise, and don't sneak up on a bear. They get really pissed when you scare them.
Also, Mountain biking is very likely to get you up on a bear before it knows your there. Try riding something with a loud ass motor. It works, because I've had several bikers say I was chasing a bear with my 4wheeler right at them, and I didn't even know it.
If a griz charges you, play dead and s--t yourself.
Pepper spray first.
Semi Auto 308 next, or saiga 12 loaded with slugs.
230gr WFNGC 10mm in G20 is what I carry. Penetrates 36" of pine board which is about like a 30-06.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalo ... cts_id=158
Just because you shoot it, doesn't mean it will die before it kills you.
Best advice is don't sneak around in the woods, covering up your sent, and then adding other sent to smell like a deer or elk. This is why bow hunters in MT get attacked a lot. Last year at least 4 that I know of.
Make a lot of noise, and don't sneak up on a bear. They get really pissed when you scare them.
Also, Mountain biking is very likely to get you up on a bear before it knows your there. Try riding something with a loud ass motor. It works, because I've had several bikers say I was chasing a bear with my 4wheeler right at them, and I didn't even know it.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -Goethe
-
- Member
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:02 pm
While backpacking we carry mace and have bear bells on our packs. That only goes so far though when your out salmon fishing. If in the states a .45 colt is pretty good. But if you got to Canada you cant take a hand gun or mace so the 12ga. with slugs works quite well. I only deal with black bear when I am in my home state of Michigan. And am usually tracking it in the dark after being shot with my bow. So we pretty much will bring anything that will knock it down, the bigger the better sometimes.
- 22silencer
- Silent Operator
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:30 pm
- Location: KY
Handguns or long guns?
Handguns: Glock 20 in 10mm for a pistol or a S&W, Ruger, Colt or Taurus in .44 Magnum for a revolver with 4in to 6in barrel length.
Rifles: 1895 Marlin in .45-70 Government or a Winchester or Marlin Lever Action in .44 Magnum.
Shotgun: Remington or Mossberg 12Ga with slugs.
Just my opinion. I would probably be most comfortable with my 5in S&W Model 29 .44 Magnum and my 1895 Marlin in .45-70 together.
Rifles: 1895 Marlin in .45-70 Government or a Winchester or Marlin Lever Action in .44 Magnum.
Shotgun: Remington or Mossberg 12Ga with slugs.
Just my opinion. I would probably be most comfortable with my 5in S&W Model 29 .44 Magnum and my 1895 Marlin in .45-70 together.
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury,and ammo; use in that order." - Unknown ?
hahaActually Bear Mace has a good track record up here, however the urge to use it on the hippies and tourists has kept me from buying a new can.
I carry a glock 22, but pistols arent very effective on bears (but i prefer a pistol to fists). Sawed off shotguns with slugs are supposed to be the most effective, but I think its too much to carry for a camping trip.
One of the stories I read in a book of bear maulings was about a couple guys that were in alaska cutting down trees for a new road between towns, while they were eating lunch two bears decided to challenge them... neither had guns, but one of them started up the chainsaw really quick and the bears looked at him like "your roar is bigger than mine" and then ran off.
rule to live by... quite literallyMake a lot of noise, and don't sneak up on a bear. They get really pissed when you scare them.
Marlin .45/70 levergun. Plant a couple 405gn bullets into the CNS, shoulder or hip and you will have a much better chance of survival. There's a reason they call it the "Guide gun".
[size=150]Machine gun snob by proxy. [/size]
[img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x190/tmixon762/Colt_Automatic_Rifle_01.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x190/tmixon762/Colt_Automatic_Rifle_01.jpg[/img]
12ga shotgun. First shot 00buck followed by 8 1oz slugs. The reasoning behind that would be that the first shot may very well be a snap shot with bad aiming so the buck may give a higher hit probability depending on the distance and it may be enough to get it to stop it's charge. If not there will be 8oz of high powered lead to put it down. I don't believe there is a bear in the world that could keep going with that type of load put into it.
As far as a pistol goes I wouldn't wanna be walking in big bear country with just a pistol. If I had to then an autoloader would be out as even the 10mm would be underpowered against a huge brown bear IMHO. I would have to go with the S&W 460 for the pure stopping/penetrating power that it has.
Edit:
From what I hear a 375 H&H would probably do the job as well but I have no hands on experience with one.
As far as a pistol goes I wouldn't wanna be walking in big bear country with just a pistol. If I had to then an autoloader would be out as even the 10mm would be underpowered against a huge brown bear IMHO. I would have to go with the S&W 460 for the pure stopping/penetrating power that it has.
Edit:
From what I hear a 375 H&H would probably do the job as well but I have no hands on experience with one.
In Alaska, the Wildlife guys carry 7mm magnums for grizzley bears and took down the huge grizz that ate the "grizzley man" and his girlfriend with their 7mm magnum bolt guns. So... one can get carried away on the firepower needed for bears. But, whatever makes you feel comfortable. People have also taken down elephants with a brain shot with a 7mm magnum (according to Craig Boddington, Guns and Ammo magazine, Sept 2008).
If you hit it right, you can kill anything with a .22. That includes elephants. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.johndoe3 wrote:In Alaska, the Wildlife guys carry 7mm magnums for grizzley bears and took down the huge grizz that ate the "grizzley man" and his girlfriend with their 7mm magnum bolt guns. So... one can get carried away on the firepower needed for bears. But, whatever makes you feel comfortable. People have also taken down elephants with a brain shot with a 7mm magnum (according to Craig Boddington, Guns and Ammo magazine, Sept 2008).
I don't doubt that a 7mm mag could drop one but how long did it take to die and what type of shot was it? I would be willing to be they took a side shot at the heart and it took a minute to finally fall. If it was charging them from 40 yds away I don't know if they would of had the same luck. I think that is the point most on here were trying to make. You need something that is gonna hit like a sledgehammer to stop the charge cold.johndoe3 wrote:In Alaska, the Wildlife guys carry 7mm magnums for grizzley bears and took down the huge grizz that ate the "grizzley man" and his girlfriend with their 7mm magnum bolt guns. So... one can get carried away on the firepower needed for bears. But, whatever makes you feel comfortable. People have also taken down elephants with a brain shot with a 7mm magnum (according to Craig Boddington, Guns and Ammo magazine, Sept 2008).
- MicroGuy
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 7905
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:38 am
- Location: Flowery Branch, Georgia. USA
Bear spray is pretty good. If I'm camping, I don't really want the weight of a gun (I like to go as light as possible).
But if I do, I'd carry at least a 40/.45.
Camping and guns for me is a two way thing. I like taking one, a suppressed one is even better. But for that, I only have a .22 (and no suppressor yet). And even that is dang heavy. (a lighter version will be in the works)
I try to go light as possible, so for me, a gun is like MAJOR weight. I'm not ultra light, but I'm close. I'm not cutting the borders off my maps to save .3 grams. But I do have all super lightweight stuff.
So I need a light gun to take for something like that.
Davo5o is right.
Studies have shown if you get into it with a black bear, you have better chances of fighting back. Go for the eyes, nose, what ever, but fight for your life.
And you have better chances of playing dead with a Grizzer.
I just try to avoid them at all costs.
I think about the last time I went camping, I had camp set up not far from the road, ready to hit the trail in the morning.
Had just gotten done cooking dinner, nice smelly Teriyaki chicken. All over me, all over the tent (the smell).
I noticed my dog after playing like crazy all day, was suddenly very quiet. She really lives for going out in the woods, this dog was bouncing off the trees earlier. Now she's very subdued.
Just after I finish eating, and get ready to settle in, some lady drives by and calls me over her car.
She asked me "Did you see the bears over there?" BearSSSS, not singular....
Turns out there was a momma bear and two cubs not 100 yards from me, headed in my direction.
I know I could have probably scared them off, but I'd be thinking about them ALL night long. Any sound would give me the willies, plus, they would be back.
So I just called it a weekend and packed everything up.
Just didn't want to risk it.
Now if I had already been in the woods, on a trail, mile or so out, I would have stuck it out. But it was just too easy to leave.
I'd rather have a ruined camping trip and still be alive and have my dog and everything else.
Just not worth it.
But if I do, I'd carry at least a 40/.45.
Camping and guns for me is a two way thing. I like taking one, a suppressed one is even better. But for that, I only have a .22 (and no suppressor yet). And even that is dang heavy. (a lighter version will be in the works)
I try to go light as possible, so for me, a gun is like MAJOR weight. I'm not ultra light, but I'm close. I'm not cutting the borders off my maps to save .3 grams. But I do have all super lightweight stuff.
So I need a light gun to take for something like that.
Davo5o is right.
Studies have shown if you get into it with a black bear, you have better chances of fighting back. Go for the eyes, nose, what ever, but fight for your life.
And you have better chances of playing dead with a Grizzer.
I just try to avoid them at all costs.
I think about the last time I went camping, I had camp set up not far from the road, ready to hit the trail in the morning.
Had just gotten done cooking dinner, nice smelly Teriyaki chicken. All over me, all over the tent (the smell).
I noticed my dog after playing like crazy all day, was suddenly very quiet. She really lives for going out in the woods, this dog was bouncing off the trees earlier. Now she's very subdued.
Just after I finish eating, and get ready to settle in, some lady drives by and calls me over her car.
She asked me "Did you see the bears over there?" BearSSSS, not singular....
Turns out there was a momma bear and two cubs not 100 yards from me, headed in my direction.
I know I could have probably scared them off, but I'd be thinking about them ALL night long. Any sound would give me the willies, plus, they would be back.
So I just called it a weekend and packed everything up.
Just didn't want to risk it.
Now if I had already been in the woods, on a trail, mile or so out, I would have stuck it out. But it was just too easy to leave.
I'd rather have a ruined camping trip and still be alive and have my dog and everything else.
Just not worth it.
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville
- Stu
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 4571
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:11 am
- Location: Wheat Ridge, CO
- Contact:
Here's a bear I wouldn't want to run into in the woods.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoToUy4 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoToUy4 ... re=related
-
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 3864
- Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:47 am
- Location: Chattanooga, TN
- Contact:
Bring me my 577 Tyrannosaur!!!Stu wrote:Here's a bear I wouldn't want to run into in the woods.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoToUy4 ... re=related
M82A1 CQ with a VFG and a Red Dot, I heard Pat Rogers likes the T1.st33ve0 wrote:Bring me my 577 Tyrannosaur!!!Stu wrote:Here's a bear I wouldn't want to run into in the woods.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoToUy4 ... re=related
Honestly I'd recommend like the guys here, 12 GA with slugs, 3'' Magnum if you're chambered for it. 3 1/2'' would be nice but you'd get better capacity with 3''.
ETA: I don't think they make 3 1/2'' slugs now that I think about it. But like one of the guys here, I might try first a shot of 00 or 000 Buck Shot, hitting it in the face with buckshot might deter it. Honestly, use mace or a shotgun, but don't have a plan for escalation, that thing will be all over you before you can transition, shoot to kill, I would empty every round I had in it, in all honesty.
It's a bear, you don't get many second chances. Plus when you come across them, you're usually close range, and if it's a mother defending her cubs, you better kill her, or she'll get you.
ETA 2: Honestly, I was thinking about it.
Most Bears you're going to come across are going to run off before you get to them they're not going to be aggressive. My Friends Dad who's been an outdoors guy all of his life (and they're from up north, or further north anyway) so he had a lot of experience with bears told me the majority will run.
The problems we see nowadays with them approaching people is because people have fed bears so sometimes they come to camp sites. I'd say you're fine with black bears, but he was chased into his car by a black bear, and I saw it on video, hehe, it was a home video, and he was standing outside the tent talking about how he had seen him the night before, etc. When challenged they will usually run.
Now that's black bear, which are about 200-400 lbs, they're curious, etc. But every bear in this region will out run you, they say the best way to out run a bear is running down hill because they have to slow down, at least you have the best chances. But if you run up hill or are on level ground, you're screwed.
The more I think about it, Buckshot to the face/front of it trying to disorient/frighten it off would probably be best, and then just put in as many slugs as you can, but honestly, if you see one, just back away facing it slowly would be my best opinion. If you come across a cub, Get out of that area as rapidly as you can without running or being a threat, but if you do come across a cub, ready your firearm.
That's my advice on bears.
Handguns? I'd say use FMJ's, honestly they're going to penetrate better, which in this case is what you need more than expansion.
But you better not go out expecting to protect yourself with a handgun.
ETA 3: (Sorry, last note but I feel like this is really worth giving info on.)
You probably need to look at a 20''-24'' shotgun, pump or semi, I'd recommend Semi, but just be very confident in the reliability of your weapon and also, buy a quality round. Don't go cheap on saving your life.
-
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 3864
- Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:47 am
- Location: Chattanooga, TN
- Contact:
I'd say along with what most people are saying that slugs would do well, probably either Remington Accutips or Hornady TAP slugs
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008 ... abot-slug/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008 ... abot-slug/
- pneumagger
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 3455
- Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:09 am
- Location: N.E. Ohio
If I was going into bear country for camping or extended hiking, I'd have my 1911 on my hip and a DE .50ae in my backpack.
I'd feel pretty comfortable with the 1911 and a spare mag... then there's the DE within reach if the s--t really hits the fan.
Although if I were EXPECTING a bear or going to be outdoors for several days, I'd bring a Winchester 1894 .30-30
Light, accurate, powerful, decent capacity and reliable.
So let's see, that's two JMB blasters and an Israeli cannon. Yup, sounds good to me.
I'd feel pretty comfortable with the 1911 and a spare mag... then there's the DE within reach if the s--t really hits the fan.
Although if I were EXPECTING a bear or going to be outdoors for several days, I'd bring a Winchester 1894 .30-30
Light, accurate, powerful, decent capacity and reliable.
So let's see, that's two JMB blasters and an Israeli cannon. Yup, sounds good to me.
Another thing you might want to prepare for, or think about, is a certain technique I saw with Lion Hunters in Africa.
Or at least the Game Warden practice (I've never hunted lion, but I saw it on Youtube, so... I'm an expert. )
But possibly if you are charged, taking a knee and shooting on the same plane height as the animal charging you, because there's no way you'll out run it and try to gun it down. Aim for Center mass, shooting into it's shoulders, neck, head and down through it's body top down into it would be perfect.
That's why I think a slug is great, because there's so much bone it will penetrate well.
I can remember reading somewhere, I believe it was a 9mm or something of that nature, bouncing off of the skull of a bear, I may be mistaken, but it wasn't like super man ping ping ping, but it deflected it slightly without fracturing the skull.
Or at least the Game Warden practice (I've never hunted lion, but I saw it on Youtube, so... I'm an expert. )
But possibly if you are charged, taking a knee and shooting on the same plane height as the animal charging you, because there's no way you'll out run it and try to gun it down. Aim for Center mass, shooting into it's shoulders, neck, head and down through it's body top down into it would be perfect.
That's why I think a slug is great, because there's so much bone it will penetrate well.
I can remember reading somewhere, I believe it was a 9mm or something of that nature, bouncing off of the skull of a bear, I may be mistaken, but it wasn't like super man ping ping ping, but it deflected it slightly without fracturing the skull.