Hey, a lot of people are talking about bugging out, heading for the hills, the woods, the mountains and . . . And what? Maybe more to point, why are you running and from whom and how long do you plan on being gone? People are talking of back packs (aka bug out bags) sitting right by the front door, all ready to slip on as you slip away. But where do you plan on going to? Seems to me staying home, defending your property and enjoying your own nice warm relatively safe house would be a better thing to do. Or a camper or a trailer, that way everything is right there ready for you to put the key in the ignition and go. I don't know about you but I'm getting a wee too old to be foraging in the woods for my next meal and sleeping on the ground. Not that I couldn't do it if I had to but . . .
But say they come after our guns? They can't take all of them at the same instant, so . . . Whose would they come after first? Hmmm, city folk would be my guess? And who would they send to get our firearms? Cops? Soldiers? DEA, CIA, FBI, BATF or . . . Maybe all of the above but if they use our own GI's against us, and no it's not like they haven't used US Troops against us before, but if they did . . . Well, that would be all out war. ROE? NONE!
But where would you run to? Me? I think I'll just sit tight, defend my house & property, maybe get me a few of those big old bear traps & place them around the yard, you know, sort of like welcome mats for your unwelcome guest. =';'=
Bugging out?
Bugging out?
"The said constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." Samuel Adams
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Lindenwood
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I agree. Running off into the woods is an absolutely last-ditch effort. My paartment is on the 2nd floor (2-story building), on the inside of the u-shaped building, in a structure made solid concrete (filled cinder block walls, concrete floors and roof). There are only three access points to the second floor, all of which could be easily barricaded if necessary. Despite the small unit size, I can still obviously hold more food and water (especially with one of those WaterBoB bathtub sacks, which I need to get) than I could ever carry on foot or even get into my vehicles. So, with the security and supply issue relatively well taken care of, there is really little reason for me to go running for the hills.
However, my only downside is my dog. Barking is a given, but really I won't bug out until I can't safely take him out to use the bathroom (the aforementioned security would more apply during a surprise all-out seige, in which I'd just have to settle for him going on the floor and cleaning it up). But, at that point, we would likely head to my grandparents' out in the boonies.
However, my only downside is my dog. Barking is a given, but really I won't bug out until I can't safely take him out to use the bathroom (the aforementioned security would more apply during a surprise all-out seige, in which I'd just have to settle for him going on the floor and cleaning it up). But, at that point, we would likely head to my grandparents' out in the boonies.
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jlwilliams
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Bugging out and 'taking to the woods' seems to be a persistent internet fantasy. Urban and suburban dwellers imagining a far off land and far off scenario. The idea of going to a forest seems to be percieved as better than their curerent environment, so they imagine it easier to survive in the woods than in the population centers where aid and allies will more likely be found if there really is a big disaster. The 'off to the mountains to SURVIVE!' fantasy also seems to include a notion that all social constricts and norms will have gone away after "It" happens. Just what "It" is depends on the individual's fantasies. The "Red Dawn" fantasy, where these guys think they will be living off the land and fighting a geurilla war blah blah blah. The guys who talk about taking to the woods, and there are plenty of them on any gun board survival discussion, almost always have a plan involving plenty of violence with them doing the ass kicking. 
Your post hits on a moronic archtype who has been anoying me more and more lately. Thanks for the opening to vent on the Red Dawn wishers. You know who they are. The ones who will post in a discussion about whatever rifle the "After SHTF, it won't matter if it's legal" or the like. Jackasses.
I have a 'get home bag' in my car. If there is a major storm or whatever; I may have to get home on foot or camp in the car for a day or so. I work 30+ miles from home with two state forests between. Arcadia in RI, and Pachaug in CT. I have rain gear, first aid kit and blankets and some food bars in the pack. If there were some major disaster or attack, I need to be at home.
If the area has to be evacuated and I have to leave home (I hate to say...bug out) I'd throw what I need into the station wagon and take my family toward whichever relatives place made sense.
Your post hits on a moronic archtype who has been anoying me more and more lately. Thanks for the opening to vent on the Red Dawn wishers. You know who they are. The ones who will post in a discussion about whatever rifle the "After SHTF, it won't matter if it's legal" or the like. Jackasses.
I have a 'get home bag' in my car. If there is a major storm or whatever; I may have to get home on foot or camp in the car for a day or so. I work 30+ miles from home with two state forests between. Arcadia in RI, and Pachaug in CT. I have rain gear, first aid kit and blankets and some food bars in the pack. If there were some major disaster or attack, I need to be at home.
If the area has to be evacuated and I have to leave home (I hate to say...bug out) I'd throw what I need into the station wagon and take my family toward whichever relatives place made sense.
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Lindenwood
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And Ill say I used to think like that. I had a black vest loaded with stuff, and a rifle with a tactical chest sling and a water pouch and was ready to make the 40 mile trip to my grandparents at the first sign of trouble. Especially when I first got this low-income apartment, I figured id need to get away from this area asap to avoid trouble.
I eventually realized the foolishness in that, and began to recognize the actual potential of my current living situation as a survival zone. Also I have definitely learned something new:
If you bug out too early in a crisis and it calms down more quickly, you are putting yourself and family under unnecessary stress and risk, and are likely missing work. If you wait too late (i.e. when you actually have reason to believe the risk will save you later), you will already be stuck with the panicking mob, closed roads and crowded stores and all. At that point, its best to just wait it out as long as you can. If it is still bad after a while, most people will have calmed down enough to stay quiet, will be dead, or will be in government camps. Moving then will probably then be less of a risk then before, as long as stealth and inconsicuousness are maintained. That is also another reason for not loading up with an EBR with 10 mags if you are planning on bugging out of an urban area.
I eventually realized the foolishness in that, and began to recognize the actual potential of my current living situation as a survival zone. Also I have definitely learned something new:
If you bug out too early in a crisis and it calms down more quickly, you are putting yourself and family under unnecessary stress and risk, and are likely missing work. If you wait too late (i.e. when you actually have reason to believe the risk will save you later), you will already be stuck with the panicking mob, closed roads and crowded stores and all. At that point, its best to just wait it out as long as you can. If it is still bad after a while, most people will have calmed down enough to stay quiet, will be dead, or will be in government camps. Moving then will probably then be less of a risk then before, as long as stealth and inconsicuousness are maintained. That is also another reason for not loading up with an EBR with 10 mags if you are planning on bugging out of an urban area.
Just like everything it all depends on the scenario. To me food or gas shortages, or people rioting in the streets, etc... aren't reasons to run. Make sure that you have enough food and water to handle staying at home indoors for a month or so and all should be fine. Bar doors and windows, use barbed wire as a deterrent, be vigilant.
The only reason that I'd ever consider bugging out is if they start rounding people up or actively confiscating firearms. At that point it would be more an effort to just blend into the surrounding area rather than hightailing it off into the wilderness. Look at how Iraqi insurgents moved freely during the day. It can be done especially if you're not the ones blowing up people or their things. That is what turned the Iraqi people against the insurgents. Make nice with your neighbors and help them whenever possible. Much better security that a BOB imho.
I need to add though that being prepared for almost anything is one of my endeavors in life. So having the supplies to toss into a bag to head for the hills is a good idea. But it can be taken to extremes.
The only reason that I'd ever consider bugging out is if they start rounding people up or actively confiscating firearms. At that point it would be more an effort to just blend into the surrounding area rather than hightailing it off into the wilderness. Look at how Iraqi insurgents moved freely during the day. It can be done especially if you're not the ones blowing up people or their things. That is what turned the Iraqi people against the insurgents. Make nice with your neighbors and help them whenever possible. Much better security that a BOB imho.
I need to add though that being prepared for almost anything is one of my endeavors in life. So having the supplies to toss into a bag to head for the hills is a good idea. But it can be taken to extremes.
July 5th, 2016. The day that we moved from a soft tyranny to a hard tyranny.
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continuity
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- Location: Ohio
Good points. If the need presents itself, you are all invited to "bug out" to my place. Please bring food, water, and ammo.
Black vests are optional.
Black vests are optional.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
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Lindenwood
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Sadly, no more black vest. When I was moving last year, I had a trash bag full of all my "tactical" stuff sitting in the garage, and it ended up being thrown away. It sucks, but even by that point I had kinda started to realize I don't want to be the crazy paramilitary guy running down the street, so it wasn't primary equipment anyways.
Now, I will pretty much look like a guy going for a hike in the wood on a cool night, heh. If I make it all the way to ohio, I'll yell "Silencertalk!!!" before I get too close, so you don't end up sniping me, ok?
Now, I will pretty much look like a guy going for a hike in the wood on a cool night, heh. If I make it all the way to ohio, I'll yell "Silencertalk!!!" before I get too close, so you don't end up sniping me, ok?
I think Bakerjw hit it best. The idea of disappearing into the woods to survive is pretty out there. Depending where your primary residence is, and where you plan to go, it may not be a bad idea depending on the situation that is developing.
If you've got a cabin in the woods on 80 acres of orchards and wildlife and the cabin is easily defensible...Maybe it'd be a good idea to bug out to if the economy collapses and your primary home is in south central LA.
No matter where, when, or why you bug out, you're not going to escape to a peaceful corner of the woods. If you're running, I'd assume it's a pretty major issue, not a protest in the streets gone violent. You run away, you're going to be bumping into people doing the same thing everywhere in the nation. You've got 80+ acres of orchard? That's 80+ acres of food for people who don't own a cabin on their own property.
I don't know how much land is private vs. public in the US, but I am positive that if you expanded every populated area into habitable wilderness over the course of two or three months (I say habitable because you can more than likely rule out anyone bugging out to the 3,000 sq mi of Death Valley) you're not going to find acres upon acres of uninhabited land anywhere, doesn't matter if you own it or not.
Depending on the situation though, I'd definitely prefer to have a well-stocked, easy to hold down place to disappear to than staying in the center of any major populated area, even a place "in the city" of a smaller <8,000 people town would please me just fine. I've never had an affinity to big cities, I'd imagine they'd be one of the biggest focuses for any effort that would constitute a SHTF scenario. If our military turned on us, the government wanted to confiscate weapons, China invaded - they're all going to try to take down major populace areas, just like we did in Iraq.
We constantly had more issues with the small outlying cities we were responsible for than the bigger (120k population estimated) city we held down in Iraq, because intel and operations focused on the bigger city/bigger potential threat. Think of stored energy vs. kinetic energy. An 18 ton boulder has far more stored energy than a paper clip.
If you've got a cabin in the woods on 80 acres of orchards and wildlife and the cabin is easily defensible...Maybe it'd be a good idea to bug out to if the economy collapses and your primary home is in south central LA.
No matter where, when, or why you bug out, you're not going to escape to a peaceful corner of the woods. If you're running, I'd assume it's a pretty major issue, not a protest in the streets gone violent. You run away, you're going to be bumping into people doing the same thing everywhere in the nation. You've got 80+ acres of orchard? That's 80+ acres of food for people who don't own a cabin on their own property.
I don't know how much land is private vs. public in the US, but I am positive that if you expanded every populated area into habitable wilderness over the course of two or three months (I say habitable because you can more than likely rule out anyone bugging out to the 3,000 sq mi of Death Valley) you're not going to find acres upon acres of uninhabited land anywhere, doesn't matter if you own it or not.
Depending on the situation though, I'd definitely prefer to have a well-stocked, easy to hold down place to disappear to than staying in the center of any major populated area, even a place "in the city" of a smaller <8,000 people town would please me just fine. I've never had an affinity to big cities, I'd imagine they'd be one of the biggest focuses for any effort that would constitute a SHTF scenario. If our military turned on us, the government wanted to confiscate weapons, China invaded - they're all going to try to take down major populace areas, just like we did in Iraq.
We constantly had more issues with the small outlying cities we were responsible for than the bigger (120k population estimated) city we held down in Iraq, because intel and operations focused on the bigger city/bigger potential threat. Think of stored energy vs. kinetic energy. An 18 ton boulder has far more stored energy than a paper clip.
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Lindenwood
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I think the particular point we are discussing excludes going to a pre-planned and pre-stocked location that happens to be out in the boonies. I believe we are talking more about the people who think running off into the wild with a big backpack and an AR15 is going to leave them better off in any situation than they would be in their own homes.
If that's the case, then ignore everything I said in my previous post haha. Along the same lines of where I was going with that post, if you're planning to just run off into the woods, you're going to be on someone's property, or somewhere near what someone else had already set up to survive more than likely. Hope you're more willing to defend a random spot in the woods than they are..Lindenwood wrote:I think the particular point we are discussing excludes going to a pre-planned and pre-stocked location that happens to be out in the boonies. I believe we are talking more about the people who think running off into the wild with a big backpack and an AR15 is going to leave them better off in any situation than they would be in their own homes.
"Bugging out" tends to entail leaving wherever you are _right_now_ and getting by on just the "bug out bag" for about 3 days. There _are_ reasonable scenarios which require it, and the idea is you've got 72 hours for things to either blow over or you figure out a long-term situation-specific strategy.
Yes, the "run away forever" fantasy is mostly a fantasy. There are, however, real-life situations where you're on your own suddenly: disaster evacuations, abrupt changes to personal plans, camping on a moment's notice, indefinite shutdown of roads, etc. Not all such situations mean you're totally reliant on the gear, but all mean you'll be happy you have it one way or another.
Yes, the "run away forever" fantasy is mostly a fantasy. There are, however, real-life situations where you're on your own suddenly: disaster evacuations, abrupt changes to personal plans, camping on a moment's notice, indefinite shutdown of roads, etc. Not all such situations mean you're totally reliant on the gear, but all mean you'll be happy you have it one way or another.
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jlwilliams
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Definitely true that a three day transient disaster relocation is possable. Huricanes or other major weather events can push you out of your home, and a few days worth of what you need while you go where ever you have to go makes sense. I don't mean to deride anybody who's taking rational steps like that. My near rant like diatribe is solely for the internet survivalinst Lindenwood describes.
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Lindenwood
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Many of my plans involve bugging out, but I will be heading to a much more secure location about 35 miles away. I am counting on being able to get there in a few days time. But, I definitely will be staying home a lot longer than I originally planned when I first got into this whole "zombie survival" thing.
My idea of 'bugging out' is having to leave in a hurry when my position gets compromised. It's not so much as having to 'run away to the woods' as it is falling back to a better defensive/offensive position, although that could indeed mean the woods.
I'm fully content on spending a few weeks in the woods - hey, I've done it before, and in a lot worse conditions than anywhere in the United States.
But, for me, bugging out has nothing to do with American Forces coming after me. It's either outside forces or the economy crashes and it's every man for himself.
I'm fully content on spending a few weeks in the woods - hey, I've done it before, and in a lot worse conditions than anywhere in the United States.
But, for me, bugging out has nothing to do with American Forces coming after me. It's either outside forces or the economy crashes and it's every man for himself.
"God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best." - Voltaire
[url=http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj315/Montaska/Firearms/]My Photobucket[/url]
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I'm 50 years old & this crap has been around for a very long time. Hell I remember when my parents would drag my ass grocery shopping with them I went & checked out magazines the whole time. It was a common theme back then & I was probably 10 or 11 at the time. I was more interested in checking out guns then politics or bugging out. IIRC there was a survival magazine that I always looked at. It's smart peeps profiting off of those not as smart & just a bit paranoid.
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.
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jlwilliams
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Re: GHB
BINGO! That's thinking I agree with. Home is where your people and stuff are. A disaster plan should revolve around getting there.MD3C wrote:I'm more interested in bugging home than out.
I'm gone a lot, and my goal is to get here to all of my preps.
No fantasy stuff. Just get home.
M
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Silent Shooters
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Everything in this thread backs up my reasons for living in the sticks. i am already in the "woods" and my bug out plans revolve around getting home and defending it. I feel sorry for you guys who have to live in the cities. i know there are more opportunities and jobs there.
If the s--t ever does hit the fan bring your guns,gear, and ammo, ill make room!
If the s--t ever does hit the fan bring your guns,gear, and ammo, ill make room!
www.silentshooters.com
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kalikraven
- Elite Member
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- Location: Florida
I've got a bunch of freeze dried food and plan on stocking up on rice and beans. My big long term survival issue is water. We have a well but it os on a elelctric pump. I need a hand pump for it. My long term goal is to learn how to garden and preserve food.
Going a little more discrete here due to some of my opinions...