How "tac" do you guys look with your gear?

[rob_s]

If you want to be taken seriously you'd do well to leave out all the "zombie" s--t. If you can't come up with a rational real-world reason, other than an IPSC match, where you'd need 200 rounds of handgun ammo on your body that is something you should take as a clue.

Establish your needs. Your real needs, not your silly needs. Work from there.

I'm still unclear on what your needs are, why they aren't being met by a traditional concealed-carry arrangement, and why you're headed down this path at all.

If you can't clearly and concisely state your needs, and how established methods don't meet those needs, in a bullet-point and easily readable format, then you've put the cart before the horse.

[Dweezil]

Thanks for the reply

On your questions:

1) My regular CC setup is also my PT92, but yes in an IWB holster. It will conceal with anything more than a size-small T-shirt.
Wow! I was under the misconception that your EDC was something smaller. If that's you in the provided photos with the home-made rig, you're quite thin. In fact, the pictured PT92, carried horizontally, nearly spans your lower abdomen. If you're small/thin enough to consider wearing a "size-small T-shirt," I can't imagine how you can comfortably carry/conceal something as big as a PT92 IWB. I'm 6'1" and 185 and I can't do that.
No I haven't actually tried any CC holster accept my Uncle Mike's IWB, but I am wondering if I couldn't find a better option for more comfort. Probably, a good idea, although with your body type, it's going to be tough with a PT92. Perhaps a Comp-tac Spartan? I used to have a PT92 and sold it as it was painful to carry concealed. Do you have some emotional attachment to this particular gun...because there are lots of much better options for an EDC piece?
Do you mean this holster? It is meant to sit OWB, right?
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/49974-33.html .Yeah, that's the one, or the basic paddle holster.

[flip]

Ok, if you insist on the mid section....

Cheaper than dirt page 74 or google Ace Case Manufacturing belly band holster. Less noticeable than 5lb of magnets hanging off your guts

[Lindenwood]

Ok, if you insist on the mid section....

Cheaper than dirt page 74 or google Ace Case Manufacturing belly band holster. Less noticeable than 5lb of magnets hanging off your guts

I'm pretty well satisfied with my new holster and carry position. Remember, my holster is not designed for general concealed carry. I have looked at those holsters, and those are actually the basis of my design, but I went with the angled orientation so the vertical footprint is as short as possible so as to not be obstructive when bending forward. Additionally, I wanted the security of level-1 retention. In experimenting with different carry positions, I found that the only way vertical carry was possible with such a long pistol without obstructing bending was to mount it much higher, like in the center of my sternum. But in any case, vertical carry does not really work for a suppressed pistol. Mount it too low and the suppressor hangs in front of my crotch, obstructing leg and abdoment movement. Mount it higher, and I have to drag the pistol across my face to get it out of the holster.

Also, the magnets weigh about 1.75lbs together and, as I said, are not even currently mounted. Besides, I guarantee magazines in the belly band pouches are not as secure as they are in my carrier with the magnet, while at the same time I can get them out much faster and with less fuss than from a carrier with flaps.

Dweezil, I mostly carry it because I like the idea of having a full-sized with which I have the greatest possible control, accuracy, and capacity, and have had a good amount of practice. Like I mentioned, I've considered going smaller, primarily for the purpose of carrying at work which, due to the required attire (dress shirt, dress pants, etc), requires me to leave my firearm in my vehicle. However, in general, the mental comfort of carrying full-size far outweighs the very minor physical discomfort of the pistol itself.

[Dweezil]

I'm pretty well satisfied with my new holster and carry position. Remember, my holster is not designed for general concealed carry. Yeah, I get that.
Dweezil, I mostly carry it because I like the idea of having a full-sized with which I have the greatest possible control, accuracy, and capacity, and have had a good amount of practice. Like I mentioned, I've considered going smaller, primarily for the purpose of carrying at work which, due to the required attire (dress shirt, dress pants, etc), requires me to leave my firearm in my vehicle. This is the crux of my question. I thought you'd mentioned you're in the market for something smaller that WOULD enable you to carry at work and other places where your PT92 and homemade rig just isn't feasible. It seems you're better prepared for "zombie" survival than mundane, everyday life. However, in general, the mental comfort of carrying full-size far outweighs the very minor physical discomfort of the pistol itself. Which is great...except you are frequently forced to leave it in your vehicle because it's really not well suited for concealed carry in your everyday work life. Since the #1 rule in a gunfight is "have a gun", a smaller, more concealable system you ALWAYS have with you is better than the big gun you have to leave in the car. Life is compromise and you ultimately, live...or die with the choices you make. Good luck in whatever you decide.

[Lindenwood]

I am indeed going buy a pocket pistol for work carry. My point was just that I don't have a problem with the size of the larger gun, and will still carry it everywhere except work. The main reason I haven't jumped on a new gun purchase for this purpose is I am still somewhat hesitant to carry at work, as I'm sure I'd be fired (I work at a bank) if someone ever noticed it. I know, if you are carrying correctly, nobody ever will. But, as the whole reason I carry a gun is because of my "s--t happens" mentality, I can't help but worry about the obvious possibility of someone rubbing against my pocket and saying (even jokingly) "OMG are you carrying a gun!?' and when I cant deny it (by pulling out my wallet or phone or whatever else it could be), Im busted and likely fired. But, regardless of all that, I still only started this thread to research options for holsters better suited for holding a large pistol during high activity use, and I am satisfied with the outcome.

I also don't CC with my homemade rig. I've only done it recently to test comfort. For regular concealment, even my cheap $9.99 Uncle Mikes holster works infinitely better.

Thanks again.

*edit*

And btw, Dweezil, only the last paragraph of my previous post was directed at you. The rest was in response to flip.

[flip]

I am indeed going buy a pocket pistol for work carry. My point was just that I don't have a problem with the size of the larger gun, and will still carry it everywhere except work. The main reason I haven't jumped on a new gun purchase for this purpose is I am still somewhat hesitant to carry at work, as I'm sure I'd be fired (I work at a bank) if someone ever noticed it. I know, if you are carrying correctly, nobody ever will. But, as the whole reason I carry a gun is because of my "s--t happens" mentality, I can't help but worry about the obvious possibility of someone rubbing against my pocket and saying (even jokingly) "OMG are you carrying a gun!?' and when I cant deny it (by pulling out my wallet or phone or whatever else it could be), Im busted and likely fired. But, regardless of all that, I still only started this thread to research options for holsters better suited for holding a large pistol during high activity use, and I am satisfied with the outcome.

I also don't CC with my homemade rig. I've only done it recently to test comfort. For regular concealment, even my cheap $9.99 Uncle Mikes holster works infinitely better.

Thanks again.

*edit*

And btw, Dweezil, only the last paragraph of my previous post was directed at you. The rest was in response to flip.

So you know by carrying even a small pistol in your pocket there is almost a 110% chance if found you will be fired at your job? Sounds like you are either uber paranoid or you don't care if you lose your job. I think I would rather ask if it is OK to carry at work and be told no and have a job or abandon this carry at work idea completely. That is unless you don't care if you get fired, just think of the good things your previous employer will say when a new potential employer calls for references. "Yea, he did a great job here but we had to fire him because he was carrying a gun into work". Different story if the employer allows it but somehow I think the bank probably would not appreciate it so much.

[rob_s]

I think you should invest in a quality CCW holster and you'll find that it addresses many of your issues.

[Lindenwood]

So you know by carrying even a small pistol in your pocket there is almost a 110% chance if found you will be fired at your job? Sounds like you are either uber paranoid or you don't care if you lose your job. I think I would rather ask if it is OK to carry at work and be told no and have a job or abandon this carry at work idea completely. That is unless you don't care if you get fired, just think of the good things your previous employer will say when a new potential employer calls for references. "Yea, he did a great job here but we had to fire him because he was carrying a gun into work". Different story if the employer allows it but somehow I think the bank probably would not appreciate it so much.

I think it's almost ironic that a concealed carrier, who by many standards is "paranoid" for carrying a loaded gun, is calling another CCer paranoid for being worried about offending people if they should notice the presence of his firearm .

But, I have thought about that, and it is just as much an issue of me being nervous about asking my employers if it is okay. It isn't the fear of rejection, which I feel is extremely likely, it is that they would then likely form the impression of me as that crazy nutjob just waiting to shoot someone (even in legitimate self defense, like a robbery). So, even if they said no and I said "okay, that's fine," I am concerned they would either assume I would occasionally carry anyways, or that I would / do keep it in my car (and despite it being completely legal, some people are nervous about that and I don't know how these people are).


Rob, you are probably right. I think I might go see if I can't try out several different types of holsters at some local shops.

[Cheetah]

A bank will tell you that you're not allowed to carry. I'm surprised you haven't already been instructed to do nothing but cooperate in the event of a robbery. Banks are insured. Of course they don't want to lose money, but losing a hundred grand, having no one get hurt, and recovering most of the money a few weeks/months down the road is far preferable to having some hot-shot wannabe loan advisor try to shoot it out with the robbers and getting five people killed in the crossfire.

There are places to carry in defense, a bank is not one of them.

[flip]

So you know by carrying even a small pistol in your pocket there is almost a 110% chance if found you will be fired at your job? Sounds like you are either uber paranoid or you don't care if you lose your job. I think I would rather ask if it is OK to carry at work and be told no and have a job or abandon this carry at work idea completely. That is unless you don't care if you get fired, just think of the good things your previous employer will say when a new potential employer calls for references. "Yea, he did a great job here but we had to fire him because he was carrying a gun into work". Different story if the employer allows it but somehow I think the bank probably would not appreciate it so much.

I think it's almost ironic that a concealed carrier, who by many standards is "paranoid" for carrying a loaded gun, is calling another CCer paranoid for being worried about offending people if they should notice the presence of his firearm .

Knowing you will lose your job if you are found to have a gun on you and believing you are doing it for the right reasons seems to be a blur here. It is not about offending anyone or giving a s--t what they think about you or your reasons for carrying. The fact of the matter, unless your employee handbook does not address firearms in the work place you need to ask. If they say NO, then what? By reading this it sounds like you would carry in anyway. I am in no way qualified to judge your ability to fend off a robbery attempt with a pocket pistol, to me it just sounds loco, but to each their own. I suggest you ask and when they say hells no, you don't push the issue ever again, that is unless you don't mind unemployment.

For reference, I have 3 guns in my truck here at work. My truck is about 100 yards from me now and would take me at least a minute or so to get from my desk to my truck and back. If someone comes in here and starts shooting do you think I am comming back to save the day? F--k NO. My bro. and dad work here and I may come back in if I believed they were in harms way but F--k the rest of these chumps, me and mine first. Now if a shooter would come after me, then it's on if I make it to my vehicle.

[Gunsmith.JM]

I think you should invest in a quality CCW holster and you'll find that it addresses many of your issues.

This.

And why is this still going?

[Lindenwood]

Yes, I am well aware of and support the "compliance principle" of bank robberies, and the reasoning behing it. I am not going to try to fend off any simple robbery attempts. But if a lone robber herds us all into an office and starts talking about executing us, I wouldn't hesitate to put one in the back of his head when he wasn't looking, if given a clear opportunity.

In any case, my point was only that, if asked, my employers might ASSUME I would still carry, and ASSUMINE I'd try to have a shoot-out with any robber who comes in! By "offend" I simply meant to generally incite negative feelings which, in the wrong person, could or would cost me my job. It is just like a High School senior contemplating asking his parents if he can go to a party where they would assume there would be alcohol or drugs or whatever. His first option is to just go and hope he doesn't get caught (but, like me, he is very nervous about this). The best option is to ask and be granted permission. The third and much more likely option, however, is to ask and be rejected. But then, he knows his parents will still think "Oh goodness, I can't believe my son wanted to go to one of those horrible parties," or "Since he seemed to really want to go, I don't know if I can trust him to not go, so I'll have to ground him for the night" (the equivalent of me attracting unwanted attention to myself which could harm my future there and at other jobs).

I have a few reasons to believe I would be rejected if I asked, though. I have casually asked my boss about it and she said no (though she was accepting or at least understanding of my response that if I ever did, she would never know). Now, she is not the owner or a member of the Board of Directors or anything, but they themselves stress the practice of compliance, so I worry they would instantly perceive my request as an automatic afront to that policy (even if I explained I had no intention to use it to thwart any basic robberies), and deny it.



And no, if I asked and they told me not to, I would absolutely not carry at work. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. That would be like the aforementioned student going to the party anyways. Not only would his parents likely catch him simply for the increased caution and watchfulness, but if/when caught there would be absolutely no chance of escaping without punishment (me being fired), and even in the future (in my case, future job interviews), that mistrust would still surely have negative effects.




If anything, the reason I never just went and bought a pocket pistol to carry to work was because I don't want to be fired or even just seen in a bad light.

[Lindenwood]

And why is this still going?

I don't know.

I'm pretty well satisfied with my new holster and carry position.

I am satisfied with the outcome

I did say I would like to try various CC holsters, though even with a perfect one with some sort of active retention and great comfort, it would still not solve the issue of holstering with a suppressor (assuming IWB). Besides this holster does everything I needed and expected it to, so I'm not in a huge rush to go out and spend more money (probably a good chunk of it) on something else.

And at this point we are just talking about something almost completely irrelevant to the original topic, but threads often do that anyways *shrug*.

[continuity]

Not to be parade rainer or anything. Statistically, most (I know, the one time "most" doesn't fit, screw the stat's) gunfights are at reach out and touch you range and are decided in 2-3 shots.

Thinking access trumps quantity.

Carry on.

[mx201er]

good ol' fashioned in the waistband leather holster! easy to conceal, easy to get to, and with double stacked mag technology just toss a couple extras in your cargo pockets and you are ready for a battle..

everyone is right, a pistol is not a primary weapon. and though i prefer an 870 to a rifle I suppose I should start saving up some cash for a good rifle to go with my pistol and shotty lol

I now have a sawed off, folding stock Rem 870 which fits conveniently in a backpack, and I am working on getting a new g20 to go with my g22. But some cargo pants and a good backpack could carry anything I might need fairly inconspicuously

[mazur]

Hmm...I've never dressed up to go shooting. I just wear my regular clothes.

[hatidua]

as un-tactical as I possibly can. no point in drawing attention.

[Lindenwood]

My primary goal of this thread was to figure out why not to carry in the manner above, compared to the other "tac-type" options listed above. I did not find any reasons.

However, I bought a 590A1 instead of a suppressor, so I no longer needed to worry about holstering with a suppressor, or as much about extra mags and mag retention since my pistol is no longer my primary. I also found a belt holster that can be carried IWB or OWB, and has an extra mag pocket that will actually hold a 21-round mag. It's a little bulky for EDC, so I haven't been using it very much, but it is still more concealable than the home-made setup. It also has a thumb break, which solved my other concern of retention.

Still, other than the obviousness of a black longgun, I'm quite focused on the idea of inconspicuousness whenever and wherever possible.

I do still Appendix carry. I do still carry my PT92 daily, which seems to be getting more and more comfortable as time goes on; I sat in a car for about 10 hours the other day and never needed to adjust or remove it. And I still think stomach carry was a perfectly viable option .

[szuppo]

WTF???? Wow!

eOk, here it is lying on the ground. It is made of doubled-up black felt. The belt was an old heavy nylon shell belt, which I cleared of the elastic loops and sewed to the felt backing. I left the muzzle end open to accomodate a future can . I had to buy the $8 worth of material, but I already had the belt and the weapon-retention strap / buckle. To do this exact thing all over again, however, would still cost less than $10. I bought two yards of material figuring I'd make mistakes (and I did--this is the second version, as the first I ended up making too thick and couldn't sew anything on it without jamming up my machine). I found a very similar nylon belt / strap at Walmart for $4, and the fabric was about $4 per yard. The original version also used velcro to secure it around my waist, but I didn't like it nearly as much.


Here is a front view with it on. I would have liked to have a more one-handed quick-release design, but that is all I had lying around (from an old waist pack). I oriented the weapon retention strap like that to help support the weight of the grip when running or over long periods, and it seems to do that very well.:


Here is the mag carrier. I used a piece of the strap from a torn-up backpack to hold it on through the original belt loop. It is secure and pretty stable (as stable as it is on a belt), but I did this so I could remove it later on without damaging the carrier. :


Here is the mag retainer, with a spare empty for example:




Here it is under a vest, WITHOUT the mags (empty mag carrier). As you can see, it prints quite clearly with a thin vest, and would really be best suited for emergency situations or hiking / camping:


However, stuffing gloves or something in the vest pockets pretty much removes the obviousness. I still wouldn't go to walmart every day wearing that, but for the most part you can't specifically tell I'm packin'. However with the two extra mags in place it is much more pronounced.



Sorry for the discrepancies in pic sizes. I got a new computer and haven't got Photoshop on it, so I had to use paint, heh.

It is a little ghetto, I know. The magnet in the shell carrier is my way of keeping a good hold on full mags without having flaps to mess with (and with the longer mags, the flaps weren't secure enough to keep the mags from sliding around the flaps anyways). The felt seems pretty tough, but I am not sure how it will hold up in the long run. If I still like it after a while and I am noticing some problems with the material, then I might try to find some nice nylon and make another one.

*edit*

I had to correct one issue, which was that when running (I wore it under my coat go to play with my dog outside), the magnet on the mag carrier bounces against my hip. I sewed some folded-up felt on the inside of it and it seems to be ok now. I have noticed there is a risk of cutting myself on the magazine floor plates because they stick out so far, but I guess I will just have to be careful and aware of that. Without any empties, the mag retaining magnet doesn't get in the way of a draw, though after a mag change or two it definitely would (would likely scrape my fingers as I draw the grip past the empties). Though, I don't imagine I'd be doing much un- and re-holstering during a gunfight, so I figure if I am alive to reholster my weapon, I would be out of danger and could more calmly manipulate the weapon into and out of the holster (or I could just put the empties into a pocket during that piece).

*enother of 10 edits*

I am thinking about making the mag carrier removable, and possibly the spare magnet as well. Doing that would make the whole rig more concealable I think. I could then have the comfort and security of this waist setup without the bulk of the spare mags, if all I am doing is wandering out in the woods and not fighting zombies (teehee). If I could come up with some stable and secure QD solution (might try some velcro webbing), that would obviously be best.

[doubloon]

I think the belly carry works if you're going for the prego look.

I think I found your Rifle!

Just kiddin brother. Rock on.

holy s--t !

[goteron]

[BWT]

Not to be parade rainer or anything. Statistically, most (I know, the one time "most" doesn't fit, screw the stat's) gunfights are at reach out and touch you range and are decided in 2-3 shots.

Thinking access trumps quantity.

Carry on.

That's why I've decided the next concealed carry gun I get, is probably going to be an LCP I can keep in my front pocket and put my hand on and it look normal.

I want a Ruger LCP... but that's two gun projects away.

[Greg Kulbick]

However, stuffing gloves or something in the vest pockets pretty much removes the obviousness. I still wouldn't go to walmart every day wearing that, but for the most part you can't specifically tell I'm packin'. However with the two extra mags in place it is much more pronounced.

When you say gloves, do you mean like boxing gloves?

[OldPaladin]

Hi Lindenwood,

Improvise, adapt, and overcome. We all do it, depending upon where we are, either in locale or circumstances... Threat assessment is something that is ongoing, and never complete. You do what you can, with what you have...

I have several "kits" always ready to go, at a moments notice. Could be one of two different Maxpedition packs, a Glock and suppressor, multiple magazines, basic survival gear and necessities for three days in E&E mode. It might be a "one-time" kit for going to the "big city," with gear I'd not need in the bush. Likewise, I might take just a couple of reload mags for one suppressed Glock, long bow and arrows, basic survival gear, and the attitude that I was going for invisibility, rather than being prepared to take-on armed BGs... Sometimes, it's better to just not be seen, let alone be sensed...

You have an ingenious thought process. I'd not have thought of the magnet to keep your mags ready to hand. Using what was at hand, for a proof of concept, as it were, is good thinking. Know what you need or want, before ordering or making final product thereof... Weapon securing gear often starts out that way, lo, from the Dark Ages, and before, to the very present... Develop it more, and you may have another career...

I don't think anyone was laughing at you. You have the energy and talent to look for something different, to meet your needs, without having to shell out lots of dough.

You are on the right path, Grasshopper. Not there yet, but you've obviously taken the first steps of your journey...

Refine your ideas, bring thought to reality. Remember, total concealment is not your goal- it is to survive...

OldPaladin, out...