How "tac" do you guys look with your gear?

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Lindenwood
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How "tac" do you guys look with your gear?

Post by Lindenwood »

When I first got into this whole "zombie survival thing" (as some friends call it :P ), I used to be all about black vests with lots of pockets, and big guns and lots of magazines and ammo and such. However, I slowly realized there are a lot of in-between stages between everyday life and the Zombie Apocalypse (capitalized to acknowledge its coming). Thus, I have focused a lot on trying to look as "normal" as possible, while at the same time being as prepared as possible.

My compromise has been to be able to walk around a public camp ground without attracting any unnecessary attention. Thus, high boots, cargo pants, and perhaps a backpack and waist pack aren't out of the norm, but an EBR slung across my chest IS. I have tried to gear my stuff to be at least somewhat concealable (I only have my concealed carry IWB holster, and use that for all camping purposes as well), and my mag carrier is attached to my waist pack. I can zip up a jacket or vest and conceal it for the most part (I mean, at least off-hand it doesn't necessarily look like I'm packing heat, just that I have a bunch of stuff in the vest pockets).

But, obviously there are some disadvantages. The first and probably most obvious one is weapon readiness and retention. A chest rig with straps is probably one of the best ways to carry a pistol, both in ready access, and in safety. If I fall down a hill while carrying IWB, there is a decent chance my firearm will come out. At the same time, I might lose up to a full second in the draw from my IWB holster (positioned at ~12:30) with my waist pack sitting over it, compared to having my pistol in a chest rig or even on my hip.


I do know what is technically legal and what isn't (for the most part), but basically I try to wear gear that would not get me hassled by even a cop who doesn't know the law. For example, while it is technically legal (in Oklahoma) to carry a Machete when out camping, if I were at a public camp ground and a Park Ranger saw me, he might come ask me a few questions. Thus, I stick to the legal limit of a 4" fixed-blade knife, concealed, (which is good enough for what I want anyways, and it is also something I can EDC unlike a machete or larger survival knife). Just the same, it is legal for me to open carry while in the outdoors, but there is still a good chance I could get the cops called on me if I ran into some other campers who didn't understand that, or that an officer or ranger who wasn't as fond of firearms as we are might come question my intentions. Even if I just ran into another camper, displaying a shiny stainless semi-automatic pistol on my chest or hip might give a negative first impression for a more traditional guy walking around with a Walnut .30-30, which could potential cause problems, or at least prevent us from sharing the afternoon / a meal together (or whatever).

Anyways, long story short, I have been trying to "dress down" my gear enough so that I could potentially walk into Walmart with it on--even my backpack--and not really worry about causing any trouble (though I know i'd probably look crazy heh).

What do you guys think about that / how do you deal with the problem of maintaining stealth? How much do you guys regularly sacrifice weapon and supply readiness for the peace of mind of not looking threatening (until you want to)?
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Post by flip »

Uhhh, CCC when out, gear at home. Repeat after me....CCC when out, gear at home...
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Post by Cheetah »

Certainly various levels.

EDC is my Kimber, Surefire, and CRKT M16-13Z folder. I can carry that stuff everywhere in Montana and not get questioned as the pistol's well concealed and damn near everyone carries a knife of some sort.

I'm partial to the idea of a travel bag staying in my vehicle. "Civilian looking" backpack with some extra ammo, water, energy bars, socks, first aid, etc. Basic supplies to get you from wherever you may be at the time back to your house in the event of riots or the like.

All my fun goodies stay at home, if zombies strike then the travel bag is there to get you to your major supply. If I'm car camping and not backpacking I'll often take lots of guns and ammo just because camping generally coincides with going shooting in my neck of the woods.

Backpacking I'll carry my 357. My buddy's family I used to hike with all the time, ~150 miles per summer, my buddy and I each had stainless Ruger 357's in shoulder holsters, mom had the same on her belt, and dad had a .454 in a shoulder holster. Never once ran into anyone who looked twice.
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Post by Lindenwood »

By CCC do you mean "conceal, conceal conceal" or some variation of that? Heh.

And yeah, at this point I Don't have the money for zombie-only gear, so I am tring to optimize my setup for the widest range of scenarios and uses, including normal "real world" uses like camping and hiking.
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Post by CDAT »

With all my gear I am way tacticool, but it does help with one of the two set ups has the big POLICE letters on the vest, and the other one if from the US army. OTher than that I do like the 5'11 brand clothing and stuff but keep it out of sight.
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Post by Baboon »

Funny when I was into african safari hunting I never really looked the part. As far as my Tac gear you might want to get some night vision to see it. But shorts & a t-shirt tend to be what I have worn doing both.
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Post by Lindenwood »

I was thinking of going CC with all my pistol, and keeping my extra magazines, holster, and mag retention stuff on a separate chest or waist rig. That way I can keep the pistol concealed and not worry about looking threatening, but then if I ever actually need to "go ready," I can fish the belt out of my pack and have the weapon on my waist / chest, and the mags right there ready to use. Plus, sometimes I could use the external rig for its much greater comfort and safety during hikes and such.
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Post by doubloon »

Somebody from the office snapped this picture of me the last time we went to the range from work. It's really a bitch changing into and out of gear on the way to and from the range but we only get an hour for lunch.

Image

I think I look way cooler with my gear than without but you can make up your own mind.

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Post by Artful »

doubloon wrote: I think I look way cooler with my gear than without but you can make up your own mind.
Darn, I was always hoping that was you in your Avatar Image
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Post by Selectedmarksman »

Gear should be about function more than looks.

That said, when the zombies finally come I fully plan on using the phrase "Don't worry, I'm from the Internet" as often as possible. :P
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Post by Artful »

Check out what your local LEO is wearing to go to the mall -

My wife thinks it's funny all go meet at a class or resturant and
all wearing multi pocket photo vests, loose tan/Kaki slacks with multi pockets, either boots or tennis shoes, ball caps, T-shirts or button down shirts in muted colors. She thought we were all buying from the same store.

Your IWB holster shouldn't slow you down that much. Put something heavy in the forward front pocket of your vest or jacket and
then when you sweep the garment out of your draw path it will have enough inertial momentum to stay clean long enough for you to get your grip in hand and pull out the weapon.
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Lindenwood
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Post by Lindenwood »

Yeah I understand that gear is about function, but the most functional stuff also "looks" the most obvious / scary / intimidating, depending on who's doing the looking. It is the most functional to have a separate pouch for every item or two with a tac vest, but it also looks the most conspicuous. Given most of the stuff I really need is carried in my pockets anyways, at most the only extra "quick access" I need is a waist pack.

Even law enforcement can carry a duty belt with cuffs and a baton and a firearm, but I'd get arrested for doing that. Even without the firearm, I'd probably just look crazy, and would still get hassled by LE most likely.

My CC position isn't super comfortable when really active and with a lot of bending over (like trying on shoes at the store...) it starts to hurt a bit (Taurus PT92, 12:30 IWB carry, only way my thin frame can conceal it) so I think I will get some kind of external holster to use for the outdoors for comfort, and also to not have to worry about it sliding out if I run or take a fall.
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Post by flip »

My gear consists of what ammo I can throw in my pockets and what I can sling on my back or ghetto carry. No offense but I find people trying to gear up like swat very ninjaesque. Going to a training class and needing a mag carrier or something like this is completely different.
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Post by Lindenwood »

Agreed, though it is all absolutely practical. A chest or thigh holster is faster, more secure, and less obtrusive than most concealment holsters. A tac vest with two dozen pockets will give faster and easier access to all equipment than a backpack.

I am just trying to figure out where everyone draws the line, from a civilian standpoint, between the basic practicality of tacticool gear (see above) and the necessity of inconspicuousness.
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Post by flip »

Lindenwood wrote:Agreed, though it is all absolutely practical. A chest or thigh holster is faster, more secure, and less obtrusive than most concealment holsters. A tac vest with two dozen pockets will give faster and easier access to all equipment than a backpack.

I am just trying to figure out where everyone draws the line, from a civilian standpoint, between the basic practicality of tacticool gear (see above) and the necessity of inconspicuousness.
I guess you will have to determine your threat level to where you're going. Shoe shopping, walmart or blockbuster you will probably not need anymore than a handgun on you and if you do you are probably really fucked any way. I will purchase a vest to carry mags and a leg holster at some point because I plan on taking a class and would also double as SHTF garb. If me and the woman go hiking I usually carry a back pack where I put the snacks, water, flash light, first aid stuff and my handgun. Easier to carry but not as easy to get to, I might have to change my mind if squirrels or bambi are allowed to pack. :lol:
Carrying a SBR or a lot of just in case s--t in a back pack on a daily basis is sure to at some point get you some unwated attention. If you have to, keep your stuff in the car if you see the need to ever have to get into a shootout keep your handgun on you when you are in public.

ETA: To answer the question, I don't want anyone knowing I am carrying or what my level of resistance is when I am out in public. IF and that is a big IF, you are ever in a situation where the BGs know you are a threat you are an immediate target. I don't want to be identified as a target or threat in any way, I just want to blend in with the crowd.
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Post by bakerjw »

I've never gotten the Mall Ninja thing and running around dressed up like somebody from a swat team hits that nail square on the head. The only reason that I can think of for gearing up like that is a SHTF scenario and then I only have to look at Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc... to know that blending in is the key to survival if you are fighting any type of insurgence based warfare.

My TAC strategy? Look as redneck as I can. Blend in and not be noticed. If I get caught out in the woods I'll have a wood grain deer rifle and not one of my EBRs unless the situation calls for me having them with me. I certainly have some backpacks, sling mag holders, and such but having all of the rest of that gear screams "keep an eye on me".

I just think that the money is better spent elsewhere.
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Post by Twinsen »

I lay down the sweetest tac gear you'll ever see. I have a grey sweat shirt with grey and red paint platter on it. It is dedicated solely to yard work, around the house, shooting, and zombie invasion. I also have my backpack that survived the last year of highschool and all of college. It has lots of large holes that make every pocket interconnect (custom!), but no holes to the outside that haven't been sewn shut. For footwear, I have some Wolverine boots that may or may not be steel toe with custom "recently dug out my septic tank" scent. For armor, I'm rocking level -1 tailored human skin on my chest and back (fits like a glove!) and for a helmet I use level 0 old Yankees cap (7-5/8 ). I figure the -1 level armor should stop airsoft bbs, and the level 0 should resist zombie bite.

For at-range and in-theater hydration, I have patented my system of forgetting to bring anything to drink. Combined with my New Era helmet with an integral sun shield brim, I'm good for a few hours of zombie slaying and range work.

For knee pads, I bring excuses to not kneel. For elbow pads I have seasonal scrapes, bruises, and possibly scars (how would I know?). Instead of a shooting blanket, I just patch the big-ass holes that show up in all my pants. Because I'm classy, tactical, and gots all the cash.

For mag pouches, I use the cargo pockets that I have on every pair of pants I own. Because they were in style 15 years ago and I think MRE stands for Magazine Ready to Empty. Think you have your magazine changes figured out? Just wait until you see the 20 second changes I can whip out when a mag gets stuck on the pleat of a cargo pocket.
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Post by Lindenwood »

Twinsen, that is definitely some top notch SWAT / Spec Ops / Ranger gear right there!



I am thinking of something I could wear at the range (casual shooting by myself, not three-gun matches or anything) without having people snickering at me behind my back, or while camping in various arenas from public lake-side campsites, to pulling my car off the road and wandering off into the wilderness. So, while I still don't want to appear threatening or gain attention, I don't necessarily have to look like I am just running to pick up some eggs and milk.
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Post by flip »

Lindenwood wrote:Twinsen, that is definitely some top notch SWAT / Spec Ops / Ranger gear right there!



I am thinking of something I could wear at the range (casual shooting by myself, not three-gun matches or anything) without having people snickering at me behind my back, or while camping in various arenas from public lake-side campsites, to pulling my car off the road and wandering off into the wilderness. So, while I still don't want to appear threatening or gain attention, I don't necessarily have to look like I am just running to pick up some eggs and milk.
What kind of weapon or gear are you thinking of carrying? I mean most you would need for a handgun is a IWB if you have to conceal and maybe a holder for and extra mag. Why do you not want to look like you are just running to pick up someggs and milk? Is there something you want to convey to others, like don't f with me I'm live? If the latter is the case we are talking more about tacticoolness rather than practicality. Stay under the radar and incognito.
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Post by Twinsen »

I figure a pair of boots is the most you can get away with without sticking out. But probably not black boots.

Does somebody make half-assed kneepads and elbow pads that can be worn under clothing? That'd be cool if you were looking to remain non-ridiculous while still being able to do most of the things you want to do.
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Post by Cheetah »

Plenty of people make under-clothes kneepads, I'm sure elbow pads are out there too.

Realistically though, if you're just milling around town, what are the odds you're going to need an abundance of gear on your person? Even if you're mugged, you're not going to need 40 rounds for your handgun. If you're placing yourself in a situation where you even need to draw your pistol you've already screwed up. Some situations are unavoidable and presented to you, those are the situations you prepare for, but what are the chances of being confronted with all out war? I'm leaning on zero.

Carry a minimum and heighten your situational awareness. The latter will do more for you than any amount of gear ever will.

Like I said before, carrying any short term sustainment gear nearby should be enough, a bug out bag of sorts in your vehicle, locker/desk at work, whatever else that has some minor supplies to get you home in a worst case scenario is reasonable, but I see no need to haul a surplus store on your person, you're just going to look that much more suspect if you ever are forced into using your CC pistol defensively.

Cop: "oh, this guy says he shot in defense, but he's carrying 100 rounds of pistol ammo, handcuffs, first aid kit, energy bars, a short wave radio, camo face paint, wearing kneepads and has three knives in his pack and pockets...why?"
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Post by Lindenwood »

flip wrote:
Lindenwood wrote:Twinsen, that is definitely some top notch SWAT / Spec Ops / Ranger gear right there!



I am thinking of something I could wear at the range (casual shooting by myself, not three-gun matches or anything) without having people snickering at me behind my back, or while camping in various arenas from public lake-side campsites, to pulling my car off the road and wandering off into the wilderness. So, while I still don't want to appear threatening or gain attention, I don't necessarily have to look like I am just running to pick up some eggs and milk.
What kind of weapon or gear are you thinking of carrying? I mean most you would need for a handgun is a IWB if you have to conceal and maybe a holder for and extra mag. Why do you not want to look like you are just running to pick up someggs and milk? Is there something you want to convey to others, like don't f with me I'm live? If the latter is the case we are talking more about tacticoolness rather than practicality. Stay under the radar and incognito.
I do only have a pistol and two mags. The problem is when IWB, when actually concealing (in the front, for me), is neither very comfortable (bending over smarts a bit), nor very secure (when running, I often have to hold it for fear of it bouncing out). I'd imagine hiking with it IWB would become an annoyance and thus a distraction pretty quickly. So, I would at least need a belt holster to solve both of those problems, though a chest holster would be more concealable and more comfortable than a belt holster. I experiemented with my CC holster and some extra straps / belts to make a thrown-together "chest rig", and it was both comfortable (didn't hinder any movement, unlike IWB), and surprisingly concealable (even a light vest can conceal it enough to not freak anyone out I think).


I have no actualy desire to "look" like anything but someone going to get some eggs and milk. It is just that I genuinely need a better carry option for more rigorous outdoor activity, and I know the sturdier and more ready-access holsters are also not condusive to concealment. So, I am just saying there will be some obvious limitations like lumps under my jacket, and my black high-top boots** (most of which would be under pants, though). Just trying to figure out how much I should worry about that.


**Embarassingly enough, the model of these boots was called "Swat." But, I didn't buy them for the name or the look, I got them for the flat color, material, and the ankle support. :)
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Post by Cheetah »

Lindenwood, not trying to criticize with this one, but you may want to consider a smaller pistol. I understand the economy and general pain in the ass involved in getting a new pistol, especially since "I already have one that works fine." but it might be worth kicking around the thought.

Right now I carry my full frame 1911 IWB just behind my strongside hip. I can conceal it "just fine" and it's plenty comfortable, but I'm on the market for a smaller pistol, because "concealed enough to not freak people out" isn't necessarily "concealed enough to go unnoticed". Hot summer day and you want to wear some shorts and a t-shirt, where are you going to hide a pistol that you have to dress around? It's not cheap, but I think having another pistol is a fair investment.
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Post by Lindenwood »

I can conceal it with everyday clothes just fine, even in warmer weather, its just that it isn't comfortable or secure enough to use for running around in the woods for a weekend. As far as the comfort goes, it's only when I bend over far, like tying shoes, that it starts to dig in a bit. Sitting in a chair or driving a car, though, I usually don't notice. But still, after 24 hours of climbing logs, bending down to pick up sticks, etc etc, it would surely start to get annoying. I can and have carried it IWB behind the hip (either side), and it is definitely much more comfortable than in the front, but it will only really conceal with heavy winter clothing as the grip sticks out of my thin frame quite a bit. With a standard belt holster or shoulder or chest rig, it would be much more conspicuous even when actively trying to conceal it (with the improvised chest rig, it still prints, or at least makes a large enough lump that most would probably recognize it as a gun).

So my choices are just to try to suck it up with the front IWB setup, or to take the subjective risk of carrying openly while in the outdoors on my belt, chest, or under my arm. CCing saves me the legal and social risks, but forgoes some safety (retention) and comfort. A belt, chest, or shoulder holster takes care of the comfort and safety, but brings the legal and social risks of open-carrying (even if OCing is legal while engaging in outdoor activities here).

I can think of lots of scenarios where OCing can cause trouble even if I am perfectly legal. One is if I happen to be on some private grounds, and they don't happen to allow weapons around, I would have to CC in order to keep it on me, and OCing could get me in some trouble. OR, say I am way out in the wild, and I run across someone out there. OCing a "non-sporting"-type firearm might make them initially a little apprehensive, whereas having it concealed might safe me some trouble.

But then again, those are all "what ifs. " I already know my current carry method wouldn't be comfortable for hiking / camping (a lot of high steps, squatting, crouching, kneeling, etc), and I have a pretty good hunch if I slipped and rolled down a hill, or fell upside-down into some, water or, whatever I might lose my weapon. That is why I might be willing to sacrifice a little stealth for the security and comfort of an external holster.

Of course, there is always the option of tailoring the firearm's position to my location and situationn. I could wear the pistol on my belt or chest, and then just put it into the concealment holster if I see / hear someone coming (Ill have my dog with me so that would help). When on a more casual trip at the local camp grounds or whatever, I could just keep it concealed to avoid conflict, knowing Im not likely going to be running around much.


BTW, perhaps I exaggerated the "going to walmart" thing. More accurately, I guess mean going to walmart (or any public location) at the onset of a crisis, where everyone is panicked and rushing. Thus, a lump under my shirt probably won't get me into any trouble unless I directly pass a cop, but having a gun openly on my chest might cause a stir when some soccer mom yells "oh my God he's got a GUN!" Really, I want something that is sturdy, comfortable, and secure enough to use for a hiking trip or the zombie apocolypse, but simple enough that I won't get made fun of at the range and that I can decently conceal well enough to fool quick or distant glances.
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Post by CDAT »

Not knowing the weather there will just say what I do here in WA state. I carry a full sized .40 pistol on my strong side hip in a Serpa and two spair mags on off side, a back up .380 in a pocket holster in my pants cargo pocket and a little .25 pocket pistol with spair mag in my light jacket. I will also carry other items in different pockets but even when I am out with my friends who do not really like guns they do not know that I have them on me, and with the weather here do not have really ahve t change my dress to cover it.
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