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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:26 am 
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Silent But Deadly

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https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/03/supreme-court-border-wall/

A large coalition of environmentalists and anti-Trumpers took a case to SCOTUS over the President and DHS exempting a border wall with Mexico from environmental regulations (a ruse to stop any building project they oppose).

Good news! Today SCOTUS declined to take the case, which leaves standing the exemptions to environmental regulations signed the President and DHS; and paving the way for the building of the Border Wall whenever the money is allocated.

Now where's our Border Wall? Congress? Bueller? Anyone?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:25 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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Do you actually want a physical wall? Biggest waste of money I've ever heard of, and I've heard of the ATF.

illegal immigrants come in legally and then just stay longer than they're allowed to. How does a wall help AT ALL?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:27 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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Quote:
Do you actually want a physical wall?


Yes! I am not against immigrants, but am with 80% of the American people who want the flood cut by 50-75%.

Secondly, it's not all or nothing. There is an in-between position with higher priority areas and lower priority areas--build the physical wall in the higher priority areas first.

The consequences of illegal immigration and those overstaying temporary visas is huge in costs. Here is a snapshot from 2014 data just published by the Census bureau.

Image

Add to the above costs the education and emergency health care costs paid by States and the Federal government, and it is a giant sucking sound. The saddest loss is displacement of young people by illegals eager to work at modest wages. Not everyone goes to college and high school educated young people need those jobs.

Even more egregious is Congress deliberately increasing the H1B and H2B programs yearly, to bring in lower wage foreigners to displace higher paid Americans from skilled and high tech jobs. These people displaced are your fellow citizens who've gotten educated, worked hard and believed in the system (which often failed them).

Lastly, physical walls work (in Eastern European countries, Israel, etc.) in stemming the tide. Here is a graphic showing the welfare costs in the 4 highest immigrant receiving States. Ending birth citizenship for non-citizen parents and cut down chain migration and it would go a long way in solving the problems and still being compassionate as a country.

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:57 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Idk. why build a wall when we can just stop giving welfare to non-citizens? Seems like an all around better solution.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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fishman wrote:
Idk. why build a wall when we can just stop giving welfare to non-citizens? Seems like an all around better solution.


I've been saying this same damn thing for years.

No housing.

no food assistance.

No welfare.

No medical.

No education assistance. Especially grants and public education. The parents could pay the school districts for them to attend I guess, but would be on the shoulders of the parents, not other citizens who actually pay taxes and pay for school.

If you have a kid before becoming a citizen of another country, they belong to you. I guess if you became a citizen after the fact, the baby would be able to become a citizen as an easement when you get your papers, provided they are a minor at that time. But don't bitch about separating families when you came to America and started having kids and then get caught being here illegally. You're welcome to take your kids back with you far as I'm concerned. Don't be doing stuff illegally and it will work out better for you in the end.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:01 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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I think you guys are on to something.

What good will a wall do?

Let's go to the video tape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVfWpDVtEX4

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:16 pm 
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While I agree that withholding all services and the enforcement of labor laws would be effective who's going to enforce those laws.

A wall is better than a paper tiger.

-CL

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:35 pm 
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Capt. Link. wrote:
While I agree that withholding all services and the enforcement of labor laws would be effective who's going to enforce those laws.

A wall is better than a paper tiger.

-CL

Agreed.

At this point I'd take anything that looks like positive action for the citizens footing the bill.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:21 pm 
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doubloon wrote:
Capt. Link. wrote:
While I agree that withholding all services and the enforcement of labor laws would be effective who's going to enforce those laws.

A wall is better than a paper tiger.

-CL

Agreed.

At this point I'd take anything that looks like positive action for the citizens footing the bill.

Who do you think is footing the bill for the wall?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:41 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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China.

And they're pretty good at building walls too :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:36 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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fishman wrote:
...
Who do you think is footing the bill for the wall?

I see it as a pay now or pay later kind of thing.

Even if Mexico pays it will be with our money.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:19 pm 
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I would donate my time and money to get this wall built.I would approve of my tax dollars being diverted from support of these people to the deportation of them. I would gladly trip the trebuchet to send them over the border wall.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:11 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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After the White House summit with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, Schumer has stated that building a physical wall is wasteful and ineffective. Likewise, even some here suggest that a wall would be ineffective. What is the truth as revealed by actual data?

The White House has released wall effectiveness based on real data (on sections where a lower height wall has been built in years past)...

Quote:
Democrats claim America doesn’t need a wall to protect its southern border. Common sense says otherwise—and so do the numbers.

Building walls at key sections of the border caused illegal traffic to drop by 90 percent or more in the years that followed:

San Diego, CA (built in 1992): Illegal traffic dropped 92 percent over 23 years
El Paso, TX (built in 1993): Illegal traffic dropped 95 percent in 22 years
Tucson, AZ (built in 2000): Illegal traffic dropped 90 percent over 15 years
Yuma, AZ (built in 2005): Illegal traffic dropped 95 percent over 9 years


Of course a skeptic could argue that when limited walls have been built in the past, that illegal immigrants shifted to the vast parts of the Southern border where there was no wall, to successfully cross the border. Undoubtedly, there is some truth in that skepticism. However, prioritizing the building of even a limited wall would likely see the same success level noted above.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:05 am 
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Silent But Deadly

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fishman wrote:
Do you actually want a physical wall? Biggest waste of money I've ever heard of, and I've heard of the ATF.
llegal immigrants come in legally and then just stay longer than they're allowed to. How does a wall help AT ALL?


Waste of money? How much would Kate Steinly's parents give to have her
not executed by multiply removed illegal alien? MS-13 removal costs?
Killer drugs on a conveyor belt on Southern Border? Deny
those who want to commit the rapes, murders, sex trafficking
that Americans do not want to do?

Walls sure as heck works for Israel.

Usually I try my best not to offer offense. So I took
a few minutes to continue.

And saying "illegal immigrants come in legally".

News Flash: LEGAL IMIGRANTS ≠ ILLEGAL INVADERS!

I shall not further elaborate out of restraint since I otherwise respect the folks.

The paucity of clear reasoning is sad. So nice to see so
many kind souls who have no doors on their homes, and
make their family welcoming criminal sanctuary homes.

For the last 100 years communists/progressives have
been attempting to destroy American. Read [email protected]#$^&g
history.

Van Jones, Obama's alter ego, actually said on cable
that he and his cohorts want to destroy the US economy
so that the US can be rebuilt on communist principles.
Look it up! Bernie Sanders! Cortes! Where is Joe McCarthy
now that you need him.

Invasion by hordes are the cheapest way of destroying
our country by Hillary's 20% US Uranium-Buying-Putin
and Chi-Coms. No shots. Just red cancer.

Having lived through WW2, Korea, Nam, Sand-Box to
see arrantly stupid politicians including Republicans
is sickening.

The guillotine and Maximilian Robespierre were underrated. :) :) :)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:54 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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Historian, you've 100% misinterpreted my quoted post. Either that, or you're putting up a straw man argument.

Its a waste of money. Not because I think it's too high a price to pay for security, but because it wont work.

When I said that illegal immigrants enter legally, I wasnt referring to legal immigration. I was referring to the fact that Mexican citizens legally enter the United States on work visas. Then they stay longer than their visa allows them to, becoming illegal immigrants. A wall doesnt stop this one bit. If a wall was constructed, Mexican citizens would still drive right through the wall, or fly over it, using passports and work visas to get through the gate.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:49 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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fishman wrote:
Historian, you've 100% misinterpreted my quoted post. Either that, or you're putting up a straw man argument.

Its a waste of money. Not because I think it's too high a price to pay for security, but because it wont work.

When I said that illegal immigrants enter legally, I wasnt referring to legal immigration. I was referring to the fact that Mexican citizens legally enter the United States on work visas. Then they stay l onger than their visa allows them to, becoming illegal immigrants. A wall doesnt stop this one bit. If a wall was constructed, Mexican citizens would still drive right through the wall, or fly over it, using passports and work visas to get through the gate.


Walls are top of their game everyday all day.They must be dealt with and can't be ignored or bribed. They are 100% bipartisan and understood universally as to meaning in every language.

Most illegal aliens from south of the border cross it without any visa. Overstaying visas is another contributor to the overall problem we are facing from every country.

The wall will not stop all "illegal" immigration from our south but it will stop many if monitored.

Its either this or :

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... ir%20heads

Image

-CL

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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No straw man intended, Fishman.

Old Hadrian sure built a nice one across northern
Britain to keep " ... those cow stealing Picts from
crossing over." - Roman Legionnaire A.D. 122
They had to pass through gates.

Five years of Latin was not wasted. :)

Waves of 3,000 invaders rushing the Southern border knowing
that 9th Circuit Judges with Civil Liberties lawyers on call
get immediate admittance forever, free social services,
immunity from crimes, welfare.

Get a WW2 Liberty ship, put them on, and send them to say
Switzerland, or Mainland China and have them march across.
Tiananmen Square Square tanks will part and let them in.

Just saw " A Bridge Too Far" for the nth time and was even more
disgusted with the underminer Pelosi and Schumer. My cousins and
neighbors in their teens fought,bled died for freedom in WW2 while the
Marxist/Progressives like Bernie Sanders/Cortes are allowed to defile
and corrode our hard won Values American values with impunity.
In 1950's they would have been extirpated.

Ben Franklin knew that once freedom is lost it is never regained.

Thank God for President Trump. The only one who hopefully
will Patton them into oblivion. One can hope, can't we?

The Theme from "A Bridge To Far*" should be played as a call to arms
to arouse lazy voters for the next election.

* << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n7vrvM0iO4 >>


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:46 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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An estimated $140Bn is spent, annually, on all aspects of illegal immigration. From countermeasures and law enforcement, to healthcare, schooling, welfare, and housing. The wall is estimated to cost $22Bn. If it took 8yrs to build, it would cost <2% of our annual expenditures on illegals. Call it an insurance policy as there are other methods of entry. However, being that the southern border is the greatest and easiest method of entry, it is one that must be protected. It would undoubtedly stop more than 2% of all crossings.
Our current plan is trying to capture and detain those who've already crossed, knowing we can't catch them all. This costs an amazing sum, not to mention the cost of those who go uncaught.
I feel an insurance policy that costs <2% of our total obligation is a no-brainer. How many of you spend >2% of your annual mortgage responsibility on your homeowners policy?

Clearly, a wall isn't going to stop anyone from driving or flying. It also won't stop a work visa situation. However, these situations can easily be separated from the anchor baby and illegal crossing dilemma. Once put on different agendas, one could see how a wall would save hundreds of millions of dollars, per year. This would undoubtedly free-up funds to counter the other issues.

Could someone drive?
Sure, but this is a irrelevantly small percentage of illegals.
Could someone fly?
Sure, but this is a irrelevantly small percentage of illegals.
Could they overstay their work visa?
Sure, but this is a irrelevantly small percentage of illegals.
Could tunnels still be dug?
Sure, but they take a vast amount of time and resources and account for more of the drug trade than illegal crossings.

While it's obvious that the 12+MM illegals, already here, are the larger part of the issue, there's still a need to fortify the border and prevent even more from arriving.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:01 am 
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Quote:
Could someone drive?
Sure, but this is a irrelevantly small percentage of illegals.
Could someone fly?
Sure, but this is a irrelevantly small percentage of illegals.
Could they overstay their work visa?
Sure, but this is a irrelevantly small percentage of illegals.
Could tunnels still be dug?
Sure, but they take a vast amount of time and resources and account for more of the drug trade than illegal crossings.


Source?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:40 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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fishman wrote:
Source?

Yes, there are plenty. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Quote:
Could they overstay their work visa?
Sure, but this is a irrelevantly small percentage of illegals.

You think 65% of new arrivals is irrelevant?

Quote:
A Center for Migration Studies report estimates that 44 percent of those in living in the U.S. illegally in 2015 were visa overstays. That’s up from an estimated 41 percent in 2008.

The CMS report, written by Robert Warren, a former director of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service’s statistics division, says 65 percent of net arrivals — those joining the undocumented population — from 2008 to 2015 were visa overstays.

There are no solid, long-term estimates of the visa overstay problem


Sources
http://cmsny.org/publications/jmhs-zero ... ed-growth/
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illeg ... tatistics/

I want it to be clear that is do not support illegal immigration. I do not support giving free things to illegal immigrants with tax dollars. I just don't think a wall is that helpful. I dont oppose deportation, but that also isnt helping very much, it can't be our only defense. If we'd stop giving non-citizens handouts, it would have a much bigger impact than a wall, and it would save us money instead of costing us money.

The wall is just rhetoric. it has been since trumps initial campaign. Its no different than banning assault rifles FOR THE CHILDREN. its all talk, no substance. Let's shift the conversation to actual solutions.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:09 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Quote:
If we'd stop giving non-citizens handouts, it would have a much bigger impact than a wall


The left won't revamp our catch and release laws and you think that they will reform the huge number of laws listed in that short statement.

Pigs will fly first

Image

-CL

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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Capt. Link. wrote:
Quote:
If we'd stop giving non-citizens handouts, it would have a much bigger impact than a wall


The left won't revamp our catch and release laws and you think that they will reform the huge number of laws listed in that short statement.

Pigs will fly first

Image

-CL

Dear me!

I know the looney left believe Hillary walks on water .... but now she is capable
of taking off!!! But it is a good drawing of her. :) :)

As for Catch-Release, what prevents ICE from sending groups after forced release
to Barbara Streisand' s, Hillary's Chappaqua, Chuck Schumer's FaceBook
daughter's manses?


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