White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

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White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder !

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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by mp5 »

Title: Background Checks for Principal Officers of Corporations, Trusts, and Other Legal Entities With Respect to the Making or Transferring of a National Firearms Act Firearm

Abstract: The Department of Justice is proposing to amend the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) regarding the making or transferring of a firearm under the National Firearms Act. The proposed regulations would (1) add a definition for the term "responsible person"; (2) require each responsible person of a corporation, trust or legal entity to complete a specified form, and to submit photographs and fingerprints; (3) require that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the maker or transferee is located; and (4) eliminate the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO. "


The regulation sounds like it pertains only to trusts and other non-individual entities, but proviso 4 eliminates the CLEO sign off (?), which does not apply to trusts. Are they planning to eliminate the CLEO sign off from individual transfers in exchange for alerting the CLEO'S of trust transfers?

Sounds like their lawyer needs to study their regs.
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

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This was covered at length a month or more ago in another thread.

Probably the reason for the lack of responses.
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by mp5 »

doubloon wrote:This was covered at length a month or more ago in another thread.

Probably the reason for the lack of responses.

I posted so I could look at your avatar again.
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

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MY EYES ARE UP HERE !!!
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by Armorer-at-Law »

Are they planning to eliminate the CLEO sign off from individual transfers in exchange for alerting the CLEO'S of trust transfers?
Yes.
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by 700PSS »

Notice how every "provision" of a law is suddenly a "loophole" to libs. :roll:

What they want is for every law to be locked down solid, so you have no room for freedom at all. Full, complete control. And you will be under control, because we law-abdiing citizens always obey the law, to the letter. It's our nature. :?
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by mp5 »

And once the CLEO's find out all these SILENCERS etc... in their jurisdiction the Libtard local pols will call for trusts to be abolished as a route to NFA.
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by RockMaple207 »

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum. :D

Regarding the closing of the supposed gun trust "loophole," as you may know, similar rules were proposed a few years ago and went nowhere. Let's hope the same happens this time around. Although, given Obama's desire to show his rabid fanbase some sort of action on guns, that might be too much to ask for. :x
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by laxguy59 »

Closing a Loophole to Keep Some of the Most Dangerous Guns Out of the Wrong Hands

Current law places special restrictions on many of the most dangerous weapons, such as machine guns and short-barreled shotguns. These weapons must be registered, and in order to lawfully possess them, a prospective buyer must undergo a fingerprint-based background check.
However, felons, domestic abusers, and others prohibited from having guns can easily evade the required background check and gain access to machine guns or other particularly dangerous weapons by registering the weapon to a trust or corporation. At present, when the weapon is registered to a trust or corporation, no background check is run. ATF reports that last year alone, it received more than 39,000 requests for transfers of these restricted firearms to trusts or corporations.
Today, ATF is issuing a new proposed regulation to close this loophole. The proposed rule requires individuals associated with trusts or corporations that acquire these types of weapons to undergo background checks, just as these individuals would if the weapons were registered to them individually. By closing this loophole, the regulation will ensure that machine guns and other particularly dangerous weapons do not end up in the wrong hands.
http://m.whitehouse.gov/the-press-offic ... n-violence

F--k
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by edteach »

Not only the new trust NFA rules by executive order but also a ban on importation or re importation of M1 garands and carbines. 03s and other C&R weapons. This guy is a piece of work. He needs to go back to what ever rock he crawled out from under.
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by RJT »

laxguy59 wrote:
Closing a Loophole to Keep Some of the Most Dangerous Guns Out of the Wrong Hands

Current law places special restrictions on many of the most dangerous weapons, such as machine guns and short-barreled shotguns. These weapons must be registered, and in order to lawfully possess them, a prospective buyer must undergo a fingerprint-based background check.
However, felons, domestic abusers, and others prohibited from having guns can easily evade the required background check and gain access to machine guns or other particularly dangerous weapons by registering the weapon to a trust or corporation. At present, when the weapon is registered to a trust or corporation, no background check is run. ATF reports that last year alone, it received more than 39,000 requests for transfers of these restricted firearms to trusts or corporations.
Today, ATF is issuing a new proposed regulation to close this loophole. The proposed rule requires individuals associated with trusts or corporations that acquire these types of weapons to undergo background checks, just as these individuals would if the weapons were registered to them individually. By closing this loophole, the regulation will ensure that machine guns and other particularly dangerous weapons do not end up in the wrong hands.
http://m.whitehouse.gov/the-press-offic ... n-violence

F--k
I like how they call it a loophole, but a 4473 is required to take final possession of NFA items. Unless I'm mistaken..........

What a bunch of ass clowns.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by urban assault »

edteach wrote:Not only the new trust NFA rules by executive order but also a ban on importation or re importation of M1 garands and carbines. 03s and other C&R weapons. This guy is a piece of work. He needs to go back to whatever rock he crawled out from under.
That would be a rock somewhere in Kenya.

-urban
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by eastern_hunter »

Oh my! This is going to be complicated. And executive order is not the same as a rule change. Does not need a review and approval period. Bet that those trust transfers that have not been approved will require additional documentation ... print cards and photos for all trust members.

I have 6 pending at the moment in three groups. Could mean three sets of print cards (two for each submitted set of transfers?) and 36 photos (two for each form for each person in the trust).

Oh my ... always something ... and just another delay!

Hope the higher stamp price is not going to be applied immediately! THAT's gonna HURT.

All to make it more difficult to acquire weapons that are not involved in crimes ... sheeshhhhh. Ain't politics wonderful?
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by renegade »

eastern_hunter wrote:Oh my! This is going to be complicated. And executive order is not the same as a rule change. Does not need a review and approval period. Bet that those trust transfers that have not been approved will require additional documentation ... print cards and photos for all trust members?
The trusts changes are not XO, only the re-importation ban.
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by Armorer-at-Law »

Armorer-at-Law wrote:
Are they planning to eliminate the CLEO sign off from individual transfers in exchange for alerting the CLEO'S of trust transfers?
Yes.
UPDATE: This is no longer accurate. The proposal released by ATF today would not eliminate the CLEO sign-off in exchange for CLEO notification. It would keep the sign-off requirement and expand it to every person who would have access to an NFA item in the trust/corp/LLC.

See: http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/ ... rearms.pdf
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by ConstitutionalPat »

:x It's irritating how they use the example of criminals establishing a trust or corp. and register their firearms through those means. Hmm...I thought most criminals just get the machine gun off the street and hide it under their bed....not in a trust. Complete idiots trying to brainwash those who will actually listen to them. ExecOrd's REALLY need to be stopped. It's all unconstitutional. I'm really sick and tired of morons (Dems and Repubs, both) running our country into a socialist/communist ditch and exempting themselves out of their laws they impose on the rest of us!

In some way, I wonder if this is going to skyrocket prices again?
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by Bendersquint »

ConstitutionalPat wrote::x It's irritating how they use the example of criminals establishing a trust or corp. and register their firearms through those means. Hmm...I thought most criminals just get the machine gun off the street and hide it under their bed....not in a trust. Complete idiots trying to brainwash those who will actually listen to them. ExecOrd's REALLY need to be stopped. It's all unconstitutional. I'm really sick and tired of morons (Dems and Repubs, both) running our country into a socialist/communist ditch and exempting themselves out of their laws they impose on the rest of us!

In some way, I wonder if this is going to skyrocket prices again?
Once a criminal always a criminal?

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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by Kramer »

Armorer-at-Law wrote: UPDATE: This is no longer accurate. The proposal released by ATF today would not eliminate the CLEO sign-off in exchange for CLEO notification. It would keep the sign-off requirement and expand it to every person who would have access to an NFA item in the trust/corp/LLC.

See: http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/ ... rearms.pdf

Basically everybody will be required to get a CLEO signoff, Individual, Trust, LLC/Corp and all members of the Trust/LLC-corps.
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by toos »

CLEO sign-off. Well, in a lot of places that simply means it requires an "investment" in the local Democrat party. The government has confiscated all of our rights and is selling them back to us in the form of permits. What amazes me even more is the idiot in the WH has time for this BS while he is queuing up WW III. Or at least what will look like it in the Middle East. 2014 looks like it may be worse than 2013, by then I'll be part-time when the Big "O's" buy a vote with "free health care" program kicks in.

They have a 90 day regulatory review, right? Does it make any difference if people comment negatively on this? Seems like this regime either Executive Orders things contrary to the law, doesn't obey the law (drug laws being the latest. If they want not to enforce the law, then repeal it) or they trot out a law/regulation for "review" and then do whatever they want no matter what citizens say. Sounds like a dictatorship to me.
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by L1A1Rocker »

Armorer-at-Law wrote:
Armorer-at-Law wrote:
Are they planning to eliminate the CLEO sign off from individual transfers in exchange for alerting the CLEO'S of trust transfers?
Yes.
UPDATE: This is no longer accurate. The proposal released by ATF today would not eliminate the CLEO sign-off in exchange for CLEO notification. It would keep the sign-off requirement and expand it to every person who would have access to an NFA item in the trust/corp/LLC.

See: http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/ ... rearms.pdf

F--k!
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by raymond- »

RJT wrote:I like how they call it a loophole, but a 4473 is required to take final possession of NFA items. Unless I'm mistaken..........
What a bunch of ass clowns.
Q: Is a NICS check required for the sale of firearms registered under the National Firearms Act (NFA)?

No, assuming all NFA requirements have been satisfied.

[18 U.S.C. 922(t), 27 CFR 478.102(d)]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/brady-law.html#nfa-nics


nothing prevents the FFL from performing one if they so wish, however.
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by Chris88 »

Is there any thing about grandfathering the NFA items you all ready have?
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by Bendersquint »

Chris88 wrote:Is there any thing about grandfathering the NFA items you all ready have?
Nothing has been posted but I am pretty certain that all trusts will have to be brought into compliance by a certain date, hard to have only some people in compliance with the NFA and others not.

If they determine and pass that all entities will require the same as individuals then ALL entities will be required to be compliant.
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Re: White House eyes 'gun trust' loophole

Post by raymond- »

Bendersquint wrote:
Chris88 wrote:Is there any thing about grandfathering the NFA items you all ready have?
Nothing has been posted but I am pretty certain that all trusts will have to be brought into compliance by a certain date, hard to have only some people in compliance with the NFA and others not.

If they determine and pass that all entities will require the same as individuals then ALL entities will be required to be compliant.
If that is the case, I'd like to know what legal foundation you think allows such a move?

By such logic, if new laws are passed people who were heretofore in good legal standing
would be deemed illegals after the new law, would they not?

Is that not an ex-post factco application of law?
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