Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

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pneumagger
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Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by pneumagger »

I have forms I submitted back in July and the checks were promptly put on hold/cashed/whatever. Do you guys think current Form 4's put in the system will be grandfathered?

What about people that already possess items on trusts? Will those trusts need cards and prints for all parties mentioned therein to remain valid trusts?
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by Bendersquint »

pneumagger wrote:I have forms I submitted back in July and the checks were promptly put on hold/cashed/whatever. Do you guys think current Form 4's put in the system will be grandfathered?

What about people that already possess items on trusts? Will those trusts need cards and prints for all parties mentioned therein to remain valid trusts?
Noone knows its al speculation at this point.
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by 66427vette »

Any one know powerball numbers for next week? :)
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eastern_hunter
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by eastern_hunter »

Yup ... is all speculation at this point.

I have 6 forms in at the moment. Seems hopeful that 4 may clear in time. Last two are iffy to say the least. They'll be in Pending 2 status but that may not be good enough! Another month would have made them far more likely to have cleared.

... sigh ...
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by Kramer »

Ir's amazing on how people are worried about the transfers that are in the loop, instead of trying to do something so these proposals will be knocked down.
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by everyusernametaken »

Kramer wrote:Ir's amazing on how people are worried about the transfers that are in the loop, instead of trying to do something so these proposals will be knocked down.
Yeah, many are resigned to acceptance at this point, that these changes are destined to be implemented and that all you can do is hope that your pending transfers won't be left standing when the music stops. They may be absolutely correct, but after what transpired earlier this year, when the communists failed in their concerted effort to ban "assault weapons" and standard-capacity magazines, I'm not willing to simply lie down and die.

I will be articulating this very issue of pending transfers in my comment on these changes. It is a serious problem for those of us who may have thousands of dollars in NFA items already paid for, but still pending approval by BATFE. We purchased these items in full compliance with laws and NFA regulations, within the correct interpretation of said rules at that time. We could find ourselves in a situation where these items cannot be legally transferred due to the opinions of our local CLEO, an obstacle which would not have applied under the regulations in place at the time we submitted the applications. Their rule changes could not possibly have been complied with, when you consider that it's taking nearly a year now from submission to approval, and they have given barely 3 months from announcing the changes until they are potentially implemented. I view this as a legal conundrum, which has the potential to cost some of us significant amounts of money.
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by Bendersquint »

everyusernametaken wrote:They may be absolutely correct, but after what transpired earlier this year, when the communists failed in their concerted effort to ban "assault weapons" and standard-capacity magazines.
Huge difference between the Legislature trying to pass something and an Executive Action.

HUGE difference, they can't be compared.
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by everyusernametaken »

Bendersquint wrote:
everyusernametaken wrote:They may be absolutely correct, but after what transpired earlier this year, when the communists failed in their concerted effort to ban "assault weapons" and standard-capacity magazines.
Huge difference between the Legislature trying to pass something and an Executive Action.

HUGE difference, they can't be compared.
Yes they're different, but the trends can absolutely be compared. You yourself have said that there is nothing concrete at this time, it's all speculation from all parties. And yet you don't consider that a massive show of disapproval from the community may, in fact, have an effect on the outcome.

Do nothing if you like, that's your prerogative. I continue to be amazed that you and other influential members of this community try at every opportunity to convince everyone else to simply do nothing and take whatever we get. How would it hurt you for others to attempt to make a logical argument against this bullshit? If anything, when NFA items become less accessible due to draconian regulations, businesses like yours will be the most negatively affected. I would imagine you would be motivated to at least try some course of action in response to this.
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by FL NFA Attorney »

I have reviewed the proposed ATF regulations in their entirety, and my opinion is that if/when the proposed regulations take effect, they will not require people who have a Form 4 awaiting approval to comply with the new requirements. I recently wrote a short summary of the proposed regulations (only with regard to the effect on gun trusts), which can be found here: http://guntrustattorney.blogspot.com/20 ... on-of.html

(This post is intended for information purposes, and does not constitute legal advice. It does not substitute for legal counsel, nor does it create an attorney/client relationship.)
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by tazaroo »

Kramer wrote:Ir's amazing on how people are worried about the transfers that are in the loop, instead of trying to do something so these proposals will be knocked down.
Don't look too much into it. It's only natural for someone to worry about something that they have a financial stake in. Also..........aren't you being a tad presumptuous? How do you know they aren't doing something to change the direction we are headed in?
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by cyclone72 »

Kramer wrote:Ir's amazing on how people are worried about the transfers that are in the loop, instead of trying to do something so these proposals will be knocked down.

What was proposed?
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by [email protected] »

Other than the changes to trusts, were any other changes proposed?
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by Bendersquint »

[email protected] wrote:Other than the changes to trusts, were any other changes proposed?
Other than the changes to ENTITIES(not just trusts) there was nothing else proposed.
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by cms81586 »

When I called to check the status of a transfer on Monday I was told by the initial phone answering individual (not an examiner) that they haven't received guidance on this yet.

Bottom line...it'll probably go into effect...even with 1000+ comments on regulation.gov being against the action. I looked for about 45 mins and didn't find a single comment supporting the proposed rule change, yet our voice will likely be ignored.

CMS
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by Bendersquint »

cms81586 wrote:When I called to check the status of a transfer on Monday I was told by the initial phone answering individual (not an examiner) that they haven't received guidance on this yet.

Bottom line...it'll probably go into effect...even with 1000+ comments on regulation.gov being against the action. I looked for about 45 mins and didn't find a single comment supporting the proposed rule change, yet our voice will likely be ignored.

CMS
Comment period is a formality, the real period of change is after it has gone into affect.
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by Tony M. »

Bendersquint wrote:Comment period is a formality, the real period of change is after it has gone into affect.
Yup, it's a requirement in the process, but while there must be the opportunity to make comments, there's no requirement that anyone even reads them at that end of the regulatory process.
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Re: Will sumbitted F4's awaiting approval be grandfathered?

Post by Bendersquint »

Tony M. wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:Comment period is a formality, the real period of change is after it has gone into affect.
Yup, it's a requirement in the process, but while there must be the opportunity to make comments, there's no requirement that anyone even reads them at that end of the regulatory process.
Thats exactly why its just a formality.

Nothing will change from this comment period, its after the comment period that change will come.
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