I've done a form 1 via eforms now I'm trying to do a form 4. Has anyone successfully done this?
I'm doing a pre walk through right now. Do I enter all the info into the website or does the dealer? My dealer hasn't done an eForm yet and I'm trying to get this done correctly and quickly. 41P and all....
wacki wrote:Bender, you've been through this before. How fast are these laws normally pushed through after comment period? What's the history?
90 days Eform vs 270 days paper. And no guarantee paper will be grandfathered. The 90 day window might be the best option.
The speed it is pushed through is entirely based on the political situation. If we have another Newtown or someone goes nuts with NFA, it will be super fast to "close the loophole", if its quiet it could be 6 months, 5 years, who knows.
All depends on the pusher.
The 90 option is safer but again I am sure that will backlog as well.
wacki wrote:Bender, you've been through this before. How fast are these laws normally pushed through after comment period? What's the history?
90 days Eform vs 270 days paper. And no guarantee paper will be grandfathered. The 90 day window might be the best option.
The speed it is pushed through is entirely based on the political situation. If we have another Newtown or someone goes nuts with NFA, it will be super fast to "close the loophole", if its quiet it could be 6 months, 5 years, who knows.
All depends on the pusher.
The 90 option is safer but again I am sure that will backlog as well.
I have a kinda local SOT is claiming that once the comment period is over they will require sign offs for entities.
He also claims that SOTs are required to keep copies of their customers Trusts and LLC/Corps Articles of Incorporation in their files to make sure that they have specific NFA language and are legal. I said that I have never heard that before and where is that written in the NFA guidelines. He alluded to it being verbal I sad then it's probably not legit.
Kramer wrote:He also claims that SOTs are required to keep copies of their customers Trusts and LLC/Corps Articles of Incorporation in their files to make sure that they have specific NFA language and are legal.
My dealer fills out his part of the forms, and I fill out my part, whether that's as an individual or as an entity. If my dealer hadn't seen the stamps coming back, he never would have known which way they were filled out.
Kramer wrote:
He also claims that SOTs are required to keep copies of their customers Trusts and LLC/Corps Articles of Incorporation in their files to make sure that they have specific NFA language and are legal. I said that I have never heard that before and where is that written in the NFA guidelines. He alluded to it being verbal I sad then it's probably not legit.
Just curious, I know there is specific language that should be in a Trust that specifies how NFA items should be handled. Is there specific language needed in the Articles of Incorporation of a LLC as well?
Bendersquint wrote:We are past the zero hour unless your SOT is already verified and inventoried.
Talk about down to the wire!
I was successful with an Eform 4 today(dec 3)with my dealer.
To clarify, he Verified a password and EIN#s on Wednesday nov 27.
It was today when his inventory was usable to the website.
I'm holding the "SUBMITTED" transfer copy.
Oddly enough, it's one sided, and has "digitally signed" written in place
Of my signature. Hope that's Kosher.
Kramer wrote:[
I have a kinda local SOT is claiming that once the comment period is over they will require sign offs for entities.
He also claims that SOTs are required to keep copies of their customers Trusts and LLC/Corps Articles of Incorporation in their files to make sure that they have specific NFA language and are legal. I said that I have never heard that before and where is that written in the NFA guidelines. He alluded to it being verbal I sad then it's probably not legit.
Your dealer is wrong, there is no need to keep it and it is not an inspectable item for an FFL, only Form3,4,5's are inspectable along with the usual suspects 4473 etc...
It is not the dealers responsibility to ensure that YOUR trust is proper for NFA items, its in his INTEREST to check it over if he knows what he is doing as that will limit the rejections and speed his shops turn over of inventory but no Fed or State requirement to do so.
I wouldn't hold my breath on 90 days for e submitted form 4's, as I haven't seen mine come in yet(pending 8/12/2013). It may have been that way in the beginning, but doesn't appear to be the case now.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
RJT wrote:I wouldn't hold my breath on 90 days for e submitted form 4's, as I haven't seen mine come in yet(pending 8/12/2013). It may have been that way in the beginning, but doesn't appear to be the case now.
It actually still seems to be the case. A form my dealer submitted on August 26th cleared and pretty much every eForm submitted in August on NFATracker shows to have been approved by today. Not sure if either yours got buried or if there is an error on your form that's delaying you. I ran into an issue when I first had a eForm submitted on Aug 9th. The BATFE lost the serial number on their database that my dealer was trying to transfer. This was only noticed because my dealer had called the BATFE to confirm the eForms got submitted correctly. They still never fixed the problem, even after 3 weeks after the initial submission, so he submitted a new eForm for me with another serial number. That put my new eForm submission in the first part of Sept. I hope something like this didn't happen to you as well.
I've been tracking the data on my personal spreadsheet and computing the latest avg return times: 95 Total Days / 67 Work Days (excludes weekend/holidays)
RJT wrote:I wouldn't hold my breath on 90 days for e submitted form 4's, as I haven't seen mine come in yet(pending 8/12/2013). It may have been that way in the beginning, but doesn't appear to be the case now.
Like the original poster waki, I'm just concerned about the 41p
Issue
wacki wrote:Dealer got an email from ATF saying step 1 is done. Help desk isn't responding. Does anything need to be done to associate inventory?
Yes, the BATFE will associate the inventory, there is nothing for you or your dealer to initiate, its just waiting for it to be completed. If they verified his FFL/SOT then he is in the queue for inventory association.
I have a kinda local SOT is claiming that once the comment period is over they will require sign offs for entities.
Not true. The proposed rules do not instantly go into effect. Given that more than 6,000 comments have been submitted so far, the agency has to at least go through the motions of considering whether any of the comments raise important points or identify significant flaws. Given that the proposed rules didn't even address some known issues (like how is it handled when the "responsible persons" for an entity changes), some rewriting will certainly have to be done. There are also many additional problems noted in comments that ATF probably had not yet realized. This could lay dormant for several more years, or ATF could re-tune the proposed rules right away (which would probably require another notice and 90-day comment period).
Send lawyers, guns, and money...
Armorer-at-Law.com
07FFL/02SOT
I have a kinda local SOT is claiming that once the comment period is over they will require sign offs for entities.
Not true. The proposed rules do not instantly go into effect. Given that more than 6,000 comments have been submitted so far, the agency has to at least go through the motions of considering whether any of the comments raise important points or identify significant flaws. Given that the proposed rules didn't even address some known issues (like how is it handled when the "responsible persons" for an entity changes), some rewriting will certainly have to be done. There are also many additional problems noted in comments that ATF probably had not yet realized. This could lay dormant for several more years, or ATF could re-tune the proposed rules right away (which would probably require another notice and 90-day comment period).
Correct, any changes will require another comment period.
I also verified today that copy/paste comments are counted as only one comment for the final consideration. They use an algorithm to find all the duplicate comments and then move all but 1 to a separate system, it also has a % variance associated with it as well.
This is why it is important to submit your own comment and not just copy paste it. Rearrange it, write your own, sort through the comments and copy parts you like but don't just copy/paste the comment if you want it to be considered.
