Just read a post on OAL on a form1 not being correct. That got me thinking. Dangerous I know.
Question being swapping uppers on an AR SBR. Does one need to carry or have in possession the original (length and caliber on form 1) upper at all times? I knew you could use any combination as the receiver is the NFA item, but never considered an over zealous LEO putting a tape measure to work while checking out your form 1.
Thanks!
Carry your Form 1 upper at all times?
Re: Carry your Form 1 upper at all times?
You should not have to carry around the original length upper. As long as the SBR'd rifle is NFA registered the length of the barrel is not his concern and he can stick his tape measure you know where.
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- Silent But Deadly
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Re: Carry your Form 1 upper at all times?
If they bust out a tape measure you better call a lawyer because you did something else to be messed with.
Re: Carry your Form 1 upper at all times?
Another good reason to not show anyone your tax forms.66Shelby wrote:but never considered an over zealous LEO putting a tape measure to work while checking out your form 1.
GHEN
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Re: Carry your Form 1 upper at all times?
And as a result go to jail until you finally give up and show them the piece of paper saying its legal.GHEN wrote: Another good reason to not show anyone your tax forms.
ATF is not going to run to your aid to prove your innocence.
Re: Carry your Form 1 upper at all times?
Well forgive me if I am not reassured. This may have to be a subject for a letter. It never occurred to me until I read a post about someone who had mistakenly input an erroneous OAL on his form 1.
I understand the interchangeability of the upper as a benefit of the AR system. And as such the lower is the registered NFA item. I have no problem with showing my paperwork. I will actually be proud to have it.
My concern is "readily returnable" to original as approved spec's. Like "right the f**k now!" Or "It's currently at my residence. I can bring it in if you insist."
I've been lurking and reading and searching for decades and have never seen a reference to this situation. It could and would be a concern, and as this will be my first NFA item I don't want to stutter to the man.
I understand the interchangeability of the upper as a benefit of the AR system. And as such the lower is the registered NFA item. I have no problem with showing my paperwork. I will actually be proud to have it.
My concern is "readily returnable" to original as approved spec's. Like "right the f**k now!" Or "It's currently at my residence. I can bring it in if you insist."
I've been lurking and reading and searching for decades and have never seen a reference to this situation. It could and would be a concern, and as this will be my first NFA item I don't want to stutter to the man.
- Bendersquint
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Re: Carry your Form 1 upper at all times?
We will name it the SHELBY RULE when they say we cant change uppers/calibers on an SBR anymore.66Shelby wrote:Well forgive me if I am not reassured. This may have to be a subject for a letter. It never occurred to me until I read a post about someone who had mistakenly input an erroneous OAL on his form 1.
I understand the interchangeability of the upper as a benefit of the AR system. And as such the lower is the registered NFA item. I have no problem with showing my paperwork. I will actually be proud to have it.
My concern is "readily returnable" to original as approved spec's. Like "right the f**k now!" Or "It's currently at my residence. I can bring it in if you insist."
I've been lurking and reading and searching for decades and have never seen a reference to this situation. It could and would be a concern, and as this will be my first NFA item I don't want to stutter to the man.
DO NOT SEND A LETTER!
Just keep your registered configuration upper at your house and you will be fine.
Re: Carry your Form 1 upper at all times?
I know you know some people who have horror stories but my experience has been quite different. As a police officer of 15 years and an NFA owner I can say that this is in no way the case in most jurisdictions no matter what most LEOs will tell you.Bendersquint wrote:And as a result go to jail until you finally give up and show them the piece of paper saying its legal.GHEN wrote: Another good reason to not show anyone your tax forms.
ATF is not going to run to your aid to prove your innocence.
GHEN
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Re: Carry your Form 1 upper at all times?
If you have a redacted copy of the form 1 and you can show any LE that your SBR is a legit, registered SBR; then having a different upper with a different length barrel won't be an issue. "You got paper making that gun legal?" "Yes, I do. I keep a reduced size, laminated copy right here in the mag pouch on the stock" "OK. That's a pretty cool rifle. Ya' know, I've been wanting something like that too......" If he says something about the OAL not being what's stated in box number blah blah (he won't, but if he does) you tell him the truth. The truth is you register it once and having spare uppers doesn't matter because it's not a permanent modification. If you have a guy who is going to make a case about it, you have other problems because that in itself is a non problem.
Don't sweat it. You paid The Man for the stamp that says it' OK. You own the upper with the registered length on it. So you have a couple of other uppers too. Non issue.
It is a good idea to keep a copy of your form, but you don't need to show it under most circumstances. You can even keep a redacted copy with most of your personal information blacked out. "Here, this shows that this gun is registered. I blacked out the personal info so that if I'm robbed, the thief doesn't have my home address. This should be all you need to see so you know my gun is registered." If things are going further than that (which they won't unless there is another problem) you are still all set. You can always produce an un redacted copy of your personal tax information at a later date if your attorney advises it. Cops know that people get robbed and understand completely when someone is taking a reasonable precaution to maintain their privacy. It's also a good idea to give your attorney a complete copy. That way if you really are jammed up, he has the complete copy and he's the one who should be doing the talking at that point anyway.
Just throw it on a copier and black out the private stuff on the copy. Then reduce that a couple times until it's small enough to keep on the gun or in your wallet or where ever you want it. laminate it and store it as you see fit. And most importantly stop worrying about stuff that doesn't matter. You paid the tribute and got the stamp. You did what you had to do to have the gun you want. Stress kills. This rifle should bring you reduced stress because it's fun. Don't let your stress reducer be a stress inducer. Now go do three mag dumps and stress no more.
Don't sweat it. You paid The Man for the stamp that says it' OK. You own the upper with the registered length on it. So you have a couple of other uppers too. Non issue.
It is a good idea to keep a copy of your form, but you don't need to show it under most circumstances. You can even keep a redacted copy with most of your personal information blacked out. "Here, this shows that this gun is registered. I blacked out the personal info so that if I'm robbed, the thief doesn't have my home address. This should be all you need to see so you know my gun is registered." If things are going further than that (which they won't unless there is another problem) you are still all set. You can always produce an un redacted copy of your personal tax information at a later date if your attorney advises it. Cops know that people get robbed and understand completely when someone is taking a reasonable precaution to maintain their privacy. It's also a good idea to give your attorney a complete copy. That way if you really are jammed up, he has the complete copy and he's the one who should be doing the talking at that point anyway.
Just throw it on a copier and black out the private stuff on the copy. Then reduce that a couple times until it's small enough to keep on the gun or in your wallet or where ever you want it. laminate it and store it as you see fit. And most importantly stop worrying about stuff that doesn't matter. You paid the tribute and got the stamp. You did what you had to do to have the gun you want. Stress kills. This rifle should bring you reduced stress because it's fun. Don't let your stress reducer be a stress inducer. Now go do three mag dumps and stress no more.
Re: Carry your Form 1 upper at all times?
Thank you for the responses. I now feel more comfortable that this is mostly a non-issue. As long as I behave appropriately, and take precautions, everything should be okay.
I still believe that the law is a weapon of the government, not there to protect the likes of us.
On a brighter note my 762 SDN-6 shipped to my dealer today!!
I still believe that the law is a weapon of the government, not there to protect the likes of us.
On a brighter note my 762 SDN-6 shipped to my dealer today!!