"Ghost Guns" & on reality TV show

[hardcase]

I saw this show last PM on the Discovery Channel or History Channel. It was worth watching, just to see how potential non-gun voters might be influenced.

"Ghost Guns" are those without or with fake serial numbers that can't be traced easily. The show started showing a guy in the wilds of the Philippines making a .45 1911 from scratch with plastic patterns, and mostly hand tools, no serial #, sold to a middleman for $115.00 or so.

Like many of these type shows, it was over dramatized. The bad guys all wore hoodies, scarfs and sunglasses with their voice distorted. Blankets were pictured with illegal guns by the hundreds. Much to do with gang violence. A young boy, appeared to be 12-14 years old used a "Ghost Gun" to kill people.

The part of the show that really made me mad was a bad guy saying how easy it was to buy guns illegally at a Gun Show. Not true in my state.

The fact that most of these illegal guns were used in the illegal drug trade was lost in the drama. The drugs are the problem.

[T-Rex]

Exactly.
How's that war on drugs going!

[sillycon]

From what I hear in the news, it must be going spectacularly. Profits for both the police/government and the drug cartels are at all-time highs (no pun intended), and it's only the citizens that lose!

Thankfully the other ~40 something states are still soaking up the illicit inventory that's no longer being sold in the few states that legalized! When that changes though, look out below!

I wonder if we'll see a dramatic increase in traffic citations/revenue if the drug war ever gets called off... After all, the police will need to do SOMETHING to justify their job once "super crime #1" is no longer a crime.

[TROOPER]

From what I hear in the news, it must be going spectacularly. Profits for both the police/government and the drug cartels are at all-time highs (no pun intended),

If you recognized your own pun but proceeded anyway, then you intended it. And don't apologize for it, because it's good.

[doubloon]

The diamond cartel isn't doing too poorly either.

[sillycon]

From what I hear in the news, it must be going spectacularly. Profits for both the police/government and the drug cartels are at all-time highs (no pun intended),

If you recognized your own pun but proceeded anyway, then you intended it. And don't apologize for it, because it's good.

I have a tendency to make a post, and then edit and reedit it multiple times over the next few minutes to clarify things. It took an edit or two on that one before I noticed the pun, hence the [added] "no pun intended".

[dark2023]

I believe gun related crime and most gang related violent crime would go down dramatically if you took away the main financial support for gangs, drugs. If they were no longer regulated and possession punished with such severe penalties than gangs would not be able to finance themselves with the proceeded of drug trade, they would also be less likely to kill over drugs as there would no longer be a large amount of money to be made or a large level of danger involved.

Financial disparity is also a large factor, many people commit violent crimes because they feel resentful towards those they perceive as better off. This may present itself as a form of racism or some kind of twisted robin-hood logic in many cases. Many people feel they have nowhere they can apply themselves or be rewarded for their work so they turn to gangs or crime. This issue is also compounded by our education system, which is a-whole-nother can of worms.

Suffice to say, gun related crime is not because of guns. Guns may be a tool that many use to help commit crimes but no one picks up a pistol and thinks "gee I could rob and/or kill people with this. Screw my nice quiet life, I'm going become a psychopath now".

Also, prohibition has never worked well to prevent people from getting things. Does any one remember when they put ultra-harsh penalties in place for possession or distribution of crack-cocaine and it completely disappeared as a result? Guns are fairly simple machines, the idea that a person with enough knowledge and/or time, and/or determination could not easily make or obtain a gun in any location, regardless of law, is absurd. They've had guns show up in prison, if people can get/create them in there then why would they not be able to get them into a city.

[YugoRPK]

Your'e missing the point. There is a major push in this country by the anti gun crown to require all transfers to go through FFL's. Thats why the ghost gun segment. Start off showing how illegal guns are transferred without serial numbers for the drug gangs and then come back and show how guns are transferred in this country without a paper trace . Former Mayor Bloomberg is throwing a lot of money at the process and is keeping it on the down low . The old in your face gun banning tactics didnt work and scared gun owners. The new tactic is to show something sketchy sounding aand then show how it is happening in your own back yard,. We have the same thing going on in my state right now where Oregon is about to ban face to face transfers without an FFL just like Washington and California among others have. Same sort of s--t happened back in the 80's when TV shows like Miami Vice portrayed illegal machine guns on every corner when it fact it wasnt an actual problem so a few ignorant reps and senators came together to attach a machine gun ban to what should have been a pro gun package of laws. Bloomberg is taking a state by state approach to banning private transfers requiring that the FFL holder take possession of the firearm and transfer it out on a 4473 . I'm sure there are other steps towards "gun safety" that will come later. Death by a thousand cuts sort of thing. Gun Safety.

[TROOPER]

Your'e missing the point. There is a major push in this country by the anti gun crown to require all transfers to go through FFL's. Thats why the ghost gun segment. Start off showing how illegal guns are transferred without serial numbers for the drug gangs and then come back and show how guns are transferred in this country without a paper trace....

Agree and disagree. I agree with the first sentence. I agree with the second sentence. Sentence three..... meh. But then sentence four: it doesn't make sense. Aren't 'ghost guns' simply firearms that have no serial number? I thought the concept was that some ding-dong printed up a receiver at home, then built the rest of the gun using after-market pieces which would ultimately yield a product which theoretically doesn't exist.

If the segment is about scaring the masses into a 'universal background checks' scenario, then it's relying incredibly heavily on ... eh... "the-stupidity-of-the-American-voter" (Gruber reference) since no amount of universal background checking is going to have any affect whatsoever on 3D printers and cobbled-together Frankenstein-guns.

That said, I will go ahead and contradict myself and concede that this might very well be exactly why the segment aired.

... but then again, the end-game of that particular segment might be something equally nefarious: serialized PARTS. Current 3D printing technology -- at least what the commoner can get access to -- can't make every gun part necessary to generate a "ghost gun". But what if California started the domino-effect of serializing barrels, uppers, magazines, and triggers... in addition to micro-stamping the ammunition, and on top of the micro-stamped ammunition requiring that the ammunition itself be serialized: case and bullet? Then every aspect of a shooting could *theoretically* be traced. From recovered bullet to recovered brass to recovered gun, down to the barrel. Hell, maybe one day they'll require that the rifling inside of a barrel be a bar-code which essentially stamps the bullet as it leaves the gun.

I dunno. We do agree that the segment was aired to simultaneously reduce gun rights and increase government control.... we just don't necessarily agree on the particular route to that end-game.

I think there's a certain amount of glamour being built around the government; as though every gun COULD be tracked... "if only the legislation were passed". But those who work for or around the government know that the level of government ignorance and incompetence is staggering and is the norm, while the occasional bit of brilliance is the anomaly. The IRS, for example, still using data-tape storage and Windows 95. Too many people think that there are gigantic, "TRON-themed" super-computers humming in dust-free basements... with slick looking blue LED lights on it as it records every American and whether he-or-she is using two-ply or three-ply. There's a bunch of smoke-and-mirrors going on.

[hardcase]

I went back and re-read my original post. I should have stated "could not be traced to a legitimate buyer" or something along those lines. The handmade 1911 used in the show could be traced to a crime committed to that particular gun after it was used in a crime, if it could be found. On the show, it could not be found. The show depicted this 1911 changing hands after use, even ending up in another country.

It was a couple months ago when I saw the show. A Pilipino in the jungle of the Philippines made the gun by hand. I suspect he only made easy to make parts or those that have SN on them. Parts like the barrel, or those without SNs, he probably bought or scavenged.

[YugoRPK]

Your'e missing the point. There is a major push in this country by the anti gun crown to require all transfers to go through FFL's. Thats why the ghost gun segment. Start off showing how illegal guns are transferred without serial numbers for the drug gangs and then come back and show how guns are transferred in this country without a paper trace....

Agree and disagree. I agree with the first sentence. I agree with the second sentence. Sentence three..... meh. But then sentence four: it doesn't make sense. Aren't 'ghost guns' simply firearms that have no serial number? I thought the concept was that some ding-dong printed up a receiver at home, then built the rest of the gun using after-market pieces which would ultimately yield a product which theoretically doesn't exist.

If the segment is about scaring the masses into a 'universal background checks' scenario, then it's relying incredibly heavily on ... eh... "the-stupidity-of-the-American-voter" (Gruber reference) since no amount of universal background checking is going to have any affect whatsoever on 3D printers and cobbled-together Frankenstein-guns.

That said, I will go ahead and contradict myself and concede that this might very well be exactly why the segment aired.

... but then again, the end-game of that particular segment might be something equally nefarious: serialized PARTS. Current 3D printing technology -- at least what the commoner can get access to -- can't make every gun part necessary to generate a "ghost gun". But what if California started the domino-effect of serializing barrels, uppers, magazines, and triggers... in addition to micro-stamping the ammunition, and on top of the micro-stamped ammunition requiring that the ammunition itself be serialized: case and bullet? Then every aspect of a shooting could *theoretically* be traced. From recovered bullet to recovered brass to recovered gun, down to the barrel. Hell, maybe one day they'll require that the rifling inside of a barrel be a bar-code which essentially stamps the bullet as it leaves the gun.

I dunno. We do agree that the segment was aired to simultaneously reduce gun rights and increase government control.... we just don't necessarily agree on the particular route to that end-game.

I think there's a certain amount of glamour being built around the government; as though every gun COULD be tracked... "if only the legislation were passed". But those who work for or around the government know that the level of government ignorance and incompetence is staggering and is the norm, while the occasional bit of brilliance is the anomaly. The IRS, for example, still using data-tape storage and Windows 95. Too many people think that there are gigantic, "TRON-themed" super-computers humming in dust-free basements... with slick looking blue LED lights on it as it records every American and whether he-or-she is using two-ply or three-ply. There's a bunch of smoke-and-mirrors going on.

Serial numbers only mean something if there is a trackable line from factory to the final consumer. Private sales interrupt that tracking ability. A gun you bought from some guy who bought it from some guy might as well have no serial numbers. For tracking purposes it is a ghost gun.

[whiterussian1974]

The Illegal in San Fran that shot the woman w a pistol stolen from a BLM Agent had a break in Trace Custody. Yet, we know that it WAS a BLM Agent that didn't properly secure his firearm and is therefore it least minimally and tangientally involved in the murder.

Not his Intent, just Negligence.
These terms are extremely important in Court.

So the Serial DOES allow tracing, just a break in custody.
Non marked, non reported firearm Mnfr and Sales don't even have THIS ability to be traced. THAT's why we have and enforce marking and reporting requirements.

[TROOPER]

I didn't know what a 'ghost gun' was. I thought it was a gun that physically existed, yet didn't exist legally due to it being manufactured without a serial number. But YugoPRK is saying that the definition of a 'ghost gun' is simply a gun that isn't completely traceable... as in "Uncle Bob sold his 22 bolt-action to his nephew who then gave it to a dude in front of a 7-11 so the older stranger would buy him beer. Then older-stranger shoots someone, and it's a 'ghost-gun' since it was clearly not in Bob Anonymous's hands"

Got it.

The misunderstanding was that I didn't understand the vernacular.

[YugoRPK]

Serial numbers mean nothing without traceability. One skip in that trace system and it is a ghost gun.Might as well have no numbers on it. There is a huge push to require all transfers to be through an FFL so that the trace system is maintained cradle to grave. Without it the serial numbers are worthless. With Mayor Bloombergs funding ballot measures just passed in Washington and Oregon to require just that. All trasfers must got through an FFL licensee so that the serial number traceability is cradle to grave. Know your enemy. "Gun safety", "Ghost Guns", "Gun Violence", "Common sense gun laws", etc. are all buzz phrases being used against you to win the public relations war against firearms ownership.

[whiterussian1974]

"Gun safety", "Ghost Guns", "Gun Violence", "Common sense gun laws", etc. are all buzz phrases being used against you to win the public relations war against firearms ownership.

Aren't those all synonyms for "Ethical Suicide"? Your Darwin Awards Lineup for this year.