End the death penalty

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poikilotrm
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by poikilotrm »

TROOPER wrote: That first point isn't particularly interesting, because he either can or he can't, but we'll never know.
We'll never know because he is wholly lacking in character. I can't stand people like that.
Some people obviously do effectively resist, so why the conviction that he isn't one of those people, Poik?

Everybody is that kind of person, pretty much. He said he couldn't be made to falsely confess. He's full of crap, and he knows it. Kevin Barry was an anomaly.
The second statement is more interesting, but nearly more irrelevant since we'll neither achieve a consensus, nor effect change if we did.
Don't need a consensus here, because the country is headed towards my understanding of the truth about cops and DAs and the death penalty.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by poikilotrm »

YugoRPK wrote: Yeah, just about anything the good cop and the bad cop could do would be more entertaining than anything else. 3 days of getting to piss in the cops coffee cup or on the floor wouldnt bother me in the slightest.
How about three hours? Willing to give me that?
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TROOPER
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by TROOPER »

You should offer an incentive... say $10,000. Heck, he might even put up with 3 hours of legal interrogation methods for just a grand. But as it stands, this is one of those bets where it's looking like either he'll break even, or he'll lose.... but who takes a gamble like that? Put some skin in the game, Poik.

Also, what is this?

"Some people do effectively resist, so why the conviction that he isn't one of them?"
"Everyone is, pretty much". Everyone is pretty much someone who will effectively resist?
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by poikilotrm »

TROOPER wrote:You should offer an incentive... say $10,000. Heck, he might even put up with 3 hours of legal interrogation methods for just a grand. But as it stands, this is one of those bets where it's looking like either he'll break even, or he'll lose.... but who takes a gamble like that? Put some skin in the game, Poik.
Sure thing, three hours of Jon Burge style interrogation. We can do it for money.
Also, what is this?

"Some people do effectively resist, so why the conviction that he isn't one of them?"
"Everyone is, pretty much". Everyone is pretty much someone who will effectively resist?
I phrased that poorly. Most everyone is the sort who will crack, and early on.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by hunter2 »

doubloon wrote:It wouldn't happen if he had 24 hours to say his goodbyes with no appeal.

Screw the appeal.

The death penalty (carried out) deters repeats. I'm not trying to argue the death penalty as a deterrent for .first timers.

How is LWOP and without appeal more humane for the innocent?

25 years on death row isn't humane either, reduce it to 25 hours.
I will vote for this! I think it was Colorado who use to shoot them. Guess the injection was cheaper than shells the last couple of years. People like the theater shooter - will donate shells and cremation supplies.
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whiterussian1974
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by whiterussian1974 »

Let's just go old school.
Take all Arrestees and subject them to the Trial by Water. If they float, we kill them because they're guilty. If they drown, they were Innocent and we'll drop the charges.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_by_ordeal

I STILL think that jurors should have to spend 1 month in Prison for every yr they sentence. THAT would reduce false Guilty Verdicts. And no showing up for Jury Summons. Kick their doors open at 3am and yank them out at gunpoint. Pull their kids from bed, shove them on the floor, and sexually assault them while "searching for weapons." THAT would sure open a few jurors' eyes to the realities of the CJ System.

It's really easy to sentence someone ELSE while complaining that we don't want to waste 5 hrs of our OWN time hearing a case.
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poikilotrm
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by poikilotrm »

whiterussian1974 wrote:Let's just go old school.
Take all Arrestees and subject them to the Trial by Water. If they float, we kill them because they're guilty. If they drown, they were Innocent and we'll drop the charges.
Justice at work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
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doubloon
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by doubloon »

Exodus 21:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by RJT »

When's the interrogation?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by poikilotrm »

As soon as he mans up, AKA never.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by YugoRPK »

My interrogation , my rules. Take a ride in a convertible.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by poikilotrm »

YugoRPK wrote:My interrogation , my rules. Take a ride in a convertible.
No. My interrogation, your utter lack of character and morals, and finally, your signed confession to the felony of my choice.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by YugoRPK »

Good luck with your interrogation.

Anyone who voluntarily submits to an interrogation without legal counsel present or answers ANY questions is not doing themselves any favors.

Your taking them moral high ground by pretending to want to convict an innocent man in your BS court is laughable douchebag.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by poikilotrm »

YugoRPK wrote: Your taking them moral high ground by pretending to want to convict an innocent man in your BS court is laughable douchebag.
No. I am merely laying bare your hypocrisy and your wholly evil, not to mention stupid, "philosophy". You are a coward and a fool.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by TROOPER »

poikilotrm wrote:
YugoRPK wrote: Your taking them moral high ground by pretending to want to convict an innocent man in your BS court is laughable douchebag.
No. I am merely laying bare your hypocrisy and your wholly evil, not to mention stupid, "philosophy". You are a coward and a fool.
If he doesn't submit to psychological torture, then he is evil.

And, if you don't want the TSA to touch your penis, then you're a terrorist.

This thread is a lost cause.

Side note, I delivered pizzas at Pizza Hut in Converse, Texas for about three years. One weekend night, I went to deliver a pizza and I could hear the couple on the other side of the door arguing. I couldn't make out what they were arguing about, exactly, but the thrust of it seemed to be that he ordered the pizza, and she did not want this to happen. Perhaps she had cooked something, or perhaps it was a money issue, but who cares why. So I knock, and they draw nearer to the door, continuing to argue. At this point, both parties draw a philosophical line-in-the-sand. She will not allow this pizza transaction to occur, and he will not have her threaten his autonomy. This becomes a power struggle over an inconsequential item worth about $11 (plus the tip... although if we're being honest, based on the pitch, tenor, and grammar, these types of people don't tip (you'd know if you waited tables)).

So this verbal disagreement becomes something else as she physically attempts to prevent him from answering the door, and he, still unwilling to concede defeat, attempts to remove her. At this point he begins slamming her against the interior of the door, which causes the front porch of this low-quality house to shake. To her credit, her resolve was stronger than that, and so the shoving/slamming ordeal ratcheded up to very meaty strikes on what I assume were her torso.

Like a damn troll, I knock on the door again as though I have no awareness of their proximity and struggle.

This eggs it on, and he hits what I assume is her head. At this point I leave, deliver to the next house (we would often take two or three at a time if they were in the same neighborhood) and then return to the store and simply tell the manager that they didn't answer the door. I have an undelivered pizza, and since this isn't the kind of thing drivers lie about, he just tosses the pizza aside or whatever. I don't recall what specifically.

Later that night, I have another delivery to that same neighborhood. This new house is several houses passed the first beating house, and on the other side of the street. As I drive there, I pass a number of cop cars, fire trucks, and an ambulance. I execute the transaction with the guy, then casually ask, "What's going on over here?" He replies, "Oh, some lady stabbed her husband like 30 times!" Greatest twist ending ever! I don't know how that played out legally, but I'm confident that the woman had some clear evidence on her face to vindicate a 'self-defense' claim if that's how it played out.


I'm reminded of that story because the fulcrum upon which the situation hinged was an arbitrary food item. The event wasn't about the pizza, but merely a contextual focal point for a bigger issue: she had enough, and come hell-or-high-water she wasn't backing down over a hand-tossed pepperoni and breadsticks. Undoubtedly, her defiance was the intolerable point for him as opposed to the particular arrangement of calories that was at the door.

It takes a pretty stubborn person to insult someone so deeply over something as absurd as, "he won't let me torture him, so he must be a bad man." It's weird to see the foundational context for which such an assertion can be made.

Obviously Poik's not backing down on this one, but it's asinine because as a former cop who currently doesn't trust LEOs (to put it mildly) he's accusing someone who publicly states that they wouldn't voluntarily cooperate with a questioning without a lawyer present of being ... evil?

Is that right? This is made two to three times funnier since part of the attempt at slander is tied to Yugo citing the Constitution... like that's a bad thing?

This place is nuts sometimes, and this is one of them.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by poikilotrm »

TROOPER wrote:
If he doesn't submit to psychological torture, then he is evil.
No. He is evil because he espouses state murder of innocents.
TROOPER wrote:
It takes a pretty stubborn person to insult someone so deeply over something as absurd as, "he won't let me torture him, so he must be a bad man." It's weird to see the foundational context for which such an assertion can be made.
If not getting the point was an Olympic event, you'd be a gold medalist.
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BadKarmaZeroSix
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by BadKarmaZeroSix »

poikilotrm wrote:
TROOPER wrote:
If he doesn't submit to psychological torture, then he is evil.
No. He is evil because he espouses state murder of innocents.
TROOPER wrote:
It takes a pretty stubborn person to insult someone so deeply over something as absurd as, "he won't let me torture him, so he must be a bad man." It's weird to see the foundational context for which such an assertion can be made.
If not getting the point was an Olympic event, you'd be a gold medalist.
I support state execution, and to the rare few that would fall victim to an improperly conducted investigation AND trial AND sentencing phase to the point an innocent person dies, i put it in the HUMAN ERROR file...along with thousands and thousands of deaths each year. The system isn't designed to be perfection, it never was. That's why "beyond a reasonable doubt" is included in our legal scenario. Yes, it would be immensely sad if an innocent person dies because they were convicted of a crime they did not commit. Yes, i would feel EXTREMELY emotional about it if the person convicted/executed were myself or a loved one. That being said, as far as i have noticed in this thread, there isn't anyone else on here who has worked on death row. When you see the evil that exists within that block, then come tell me what the better answer is...cable TV and segregated security for their entire life? My tax dollars feeding, housing, providing healthcare, comfort items, entertainment, etc for them until they naturally expire? Act as though their civil liberties and "religious beliefs" (personally my fav) are more important than my safety. I would really like an answer.
You want to torture a confession from a suspect? I want you to babysit these monsters until they croak...
I got out of death row and now work for a diagnostics/reception area, but if there is NO death row, then you put my brothers in danger for a longer time. Yes, it's already years before they are executed, but imagine a guy on death row to be executed on Jan 1, 2016, but thanks to you the death penalty is abolished, so he lives. On Jan 2, he kills a CO by tripping him and stomping on his neck...

Still so glad you saved him?

Prison doesn't make these individuals any less dangerous, it just limits who they can harm.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by poikilotrm »

BadKarmaZeroSix wrote: I support state execution, and to the rare few that would fall victim to an improperly conducted investigation AND trial AND sentencing phase to the point an innocent person dies, i put it in the HUMAN ERROR file...along with thousands and thousands of deaths each year.
Where does Jon Burge and all of those like him fit into your "human error"?
Act as though their civil liberties and "religious beliefs" (personally my fav) are more important than my safety. I would really like an answer.
Our civil rights do, in fact, trump our safety. As far as warehousing them, do it. It's cheaper than execution, and keeps innocent men from being murdered at the hands of the state.
You want to torture a confession from a suspect? I want you to babysit these monsters until they croak...
Ain't nobody MADE you sign up for the job. And if you want to see some monsters just walking around free, visit the Lumpkin County SO some time. Ask for Sterling Cole.
I got out of death row and now work for a diagnostics/reception area, but if there is NO death row, then you put my brothers in danger for a longer time. Yes, it's already years before they are executed, but imagine a guy on death row to be executed on Jan 1, 2016, but thanks to you the death penalty is abolished, so he lives. On Jan 2, he kills a CO by tripping him and stomping on his neck...
You can always go get a job doing something else.
Prison doesn't make these individuals any less dangerous, it just limits who they can harm.
That would be the idea.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by TROOPER »

I got the point. I still get the point. I didn't get the point 30+ times like that lady's stabbing victim did, but I still get the point.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by doubloon »

pokemon doesn't care if you get the point or not, his idea of winning a debate is repeating the same nonsense until you stop responding then claiming he won
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by BadKarmaZeroSix »

Poiki, look, i know i'm not gonna change your mind...and yes, i would LOVE to get a different job...unfortunately, my options here are very limited and i can't leave for family reasons -- trust me, if i wasn't backed against a wall, i wouldn't be doing this. My point is, why let them remain alive to potentially hurt or kill people still? Not just COs, but criminals who are serving lesser sentences that someday MAY contribute to our society. I really wish that the people making the laws regarding these things had to spend time with the individuals they are talking about, including you. If you want to say they deserve life, then shouldn't you have first-hand knowledge of what that life entails?
Oh, and the reason i used quotation marks around "religious beliefs" is because of the number of times that blood has to be cleaned up in the chapel because an individual suddenly claims to be of one particular religion in order to assault or attempt to kill someone there. I guess it comes down to what "rights" actually allow you to do. I haven't seen any evidence that makes me feel that allowing these murderers to live out their lives is a responsible, smart, or even practical thing. Admittedly, i am jaded from my own experiences -- i'm guessing in some way or another we all are. This is gonna be one of those "agree to disagree" items, but i have no moral problem flipping the switch myself until your side wins.
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ick
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by ick »

That poor woman. Those rotten pizza delivery boys, they are like a street gang with their predatory ways. NOBODY in my AO is enthusiastic about getting pizza delivered. The same goes for people in Chicago, NYC, New Orleans, Baltimore, and a whole host of other locales. The pizza delivery boys are a far greater threat to an honest decent person than any drug dealer or other scum.

None of them care about anybody else but themselves. They won't even lift a finger to prevent a stabbing. Every last one of them. Worse than any drug dealer I say.

Oh, sorry, that was my emotional anti-cop bigotry leaking over into my anti-pizza delivery bigotry.
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poikilotrm
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by poikilotrm »

How's things down in the ward today, dick? Not cheeking your meds, are you?
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by TROOPER »

ick wrote:That poor woman. Those rotten pizza delivery boys, they are like a street gang with their predatory ways. NOBODY in my AO is enthusiastic about getting pizza delivered. The same goes for people in Chicago, NYC, New Orleans, Baltimore, and a whole host of other locales. The pizza delivery boys are a far greater threat to an honest decent person than any drug dealer or other scum.

None of them care about anybody else but themselves. They won't even lift a finger to prevent a stabbing. Every last one of them. Worse than any drug dealer I say.

Oh, sorry, that was my emotional anti-cop bigotry leaking over into my anti-pizza delivery bigotry.
I was all on board until I realized what you were getting at.

And yes, I fully acknowledge that I egged that situation on by knocking on the door. I'm not ashamed, exactly, but I'm sort of ashamed that I'm not ashamed that I don't regret doing that.
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Re: End the death penalty

Post by ick »

TROOPER wrote:
ick wrote:That poor woman. Those rotten pizza delivery boys, they are like a street gang with their predatory ways. NOBODY in my AO is enthusiastic about getting pizza delivered. The same goes for people in Chicago, NYC, New Orleans, Baltimore, and a whole host of other locales. The pizza delivery boys are a far greater threat to an honest decent person than any drug dealer or other scum.

None of them care about anybody else but themselves. They won't even lift a finger to prevent a stabbing. Every last one of them. Worse than any drug dealer I say.

Oh, sorry, that was my emotional anti-cop bigotry leaking over into my anti-pizza delivery bigotry.
I was all on board until I realized what you were getting at.

And yes, I fully acknowledge that I egged that situation on by knocking on the door. I'm not ashamed, exactly, but I'm sort of ashamed that I'm not ashamed that I don't regret doing that.
I would say that there was a certain element of inevitability in the confrontation that you seemed to set into motion. But that is just it, it was an inevitability that you just happened to spark. Your actions really weren't the cause that deserves shame.

I would think you might have some fallout from not taking some sort of follow-up action once you thought abuse was taking place. That kind of thing is nasty to get involved with. I always felt that if I came across someone bleeding in the street I would HOPE I would take action like the good Samaritan, not like a "New Yorker" that simply passes by and doesn't get involved out of a callus nature, wanton disregard for others, or a self-righteous piety. I can see myself feeling shame by choosing a poor moral reaction.

Punked.
pokémon wrote
NOBODY in my AO is enthusiastic about the cops being around. The same goes for people in Chicago, NYC, New Orleans, Baltimore, and a whole host of other locales. The cops are a far greater threat to an honest decent person than any drug dealer or other scum.
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