Big win in Senate against Obama's gun control agenda

[johndoe3]

Thursday, the Senate voted on a number of gun amendments to a Bill. The revived Manchin-Toomey amendment to establish national universal background checks lost 48-50. Four R's voted with the Dems to establish universal background checks: John McCain (AZ), Collins (ME), Toomey (PA), and Mark Kirk (IL); and one Dem voted against it: Heidi Heitkamp (SD.

The Feinstein amendment died 45-54 (people on the national Terror watchlist would be banned from buying guns).

On the pro-gun side, Rand Paul's amendment would establish a number of pro-gun laws for the District of Columbia, including shall issue CCW. It passed 54-45 but didn't reach the 60-level required by Senate rules. Having passed, it might be tacked on some future bill.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... -shooting/

My take: John McCain can eat dirt.

[BlogSarge]

So does that mean folks on tfhe terrorism watch list CAN buy a gun?

Seems kind of messed up if that is the way it is. When I worked at a gun shop a few years ago, returning vets were often delayed on instant background checks, but we won't prohibit terror watch list folks.

Or, am I reading this wrong?

[Marsblue]

being placed on the terrorist watch list doesn't require any due process and anybody could be placed on it without them being notified or allowed to defend themselves. Some people consider the NRA a terrorist organization, suppose all NRA members go put on the list. While it would make obtaining guns for a potential terrorist slightly more difficult, the potential to restrict law abiding citizens is unacceptable.

[johndoe3]

So does that mean fols (sic, folks) on the terrorism watch list CAN buy a gun?

Marsblue nailed it above. This gun-control agenda item would establish a more permanent "Department of Pre-Crime". Its purpose is to nail as many people as possible to prevent them from buying guns even if they have never committed any crime.

You offend a BATF agent during an FFL inspection-- the agent could retaliate and and submit your name to the list as being anti-gubmint; an EPA inspector gets offended by you objecting to their outrageous demands--they could submit your name to the list; you are a tea-party activist--bingo, your name can be submitted by a faceless bureaucrat to take you out of the game.

During the 2012 election, Ron Paul and some of his top staff were hassled about flying (from the list), because obviously he and his people were not drinking the progressive Koolaid. Huckabee was also accused of potential terrorist inclinations. They had the political power to get their names removed, you and I don't have that power. All we can do is appeal to our elected Senators and Representatives to have our names removed from the list once it is on there.

There is no procedure for a person wrongly placed on the list to get their name removed, or for the government to even reveal the reasoning on why that person's name appeared on the list.

During the Bush 43 presidency the list grew to ~300,000 names; meanwhile, during the Obama presidency the list has grown by over 500%. It started out with a lot of resident aliens and other non-citizens who were actual threats, while now the government is adding lots of citizens to the list because they can with no repercussions.

To answer your question, if a person is a prohibited person, then they would not pass a NICS check and could not buy a gun. If they were a citizen on the terrorist list who've never committed any crime, then they can pass a NICS check and buy a gun.

If this prohibition were passed to strip gun rights and flying, etc. by a terrorism watchlist, then Orwell's "1984" Department of Pre-Crime would be established in the USA. Mission creep would then have potential employers run a check and people on the list couldn't get a job, couldn't fly, couldn't buy a gun, all with never having committed a crime.

[BlogSarge]

Thanks all for the points of view. I do see the point and agree, just wasn't familiar with the proposed law and its content.

Cheers,
JB

[ick]

I have political power.
I don't like your stand on issues.
I think you are scary.
I get your name added to a "watch list".

Tough crap for you and your 2nd amendment rights.
It is for the children, blah, blah, blah.

Crisis above has temporarily been averted. People must still be treated equal under the law and actually have due-process before their 2nd amendment rights are thrown in the trash because of "fear".

[whiterussian1974]

If this prohibition were passed to strip gun rights and flying, etc. by a terrorism watchlist, then Orwell's "1984" Department of Pre-Crime would be established in the USA. Mission creep would then have potential employers run a check and people on the list couldn't get a job, couldn't fly, couldn't buy a gun, all with never having committed a crime.

1984 had Thought Crime. Minority Report (Philip K Dick) had Pre-Crime.
Otherwise I agree w your every jot and tittle. Wanted to bring your post from 99.44% accurate up to 100%.

(ETA: We ALREADY have Thought Crime and Pre-Crime. They're called Hate Speech and Analytics/datamining.)

[YugoRPK]

The slopes should have finished McCain off. I'd rather have Obama as president than that retard.

[whiterussian1974]

The slopes should have finished McCain off. I'd rather have Obama as president than that retard.

At 1st I thought that you meant that he'd gone downhill skiing. Then I understood.

I can't comment on your comment, but I certainly fight to preserve your 1st A Rights.
When I see him trying to get our youth involved in Ukraine and Syria...

[poikilotrm]

You offend a BATF agent during an FFL inspection-- the agent could retaliate and and submit your name to the list as being anti-gubmint; an EPA inspector gets offended by you objecting to their outrageous demands--they could submit your name to the list; you are a tea-party activist--bingo, your name can be submitted by a faceless bureaucrat to take you out of the game.

You get pulled over for a seatbelt violation. You are perfectly courteous and decent. The cop then calls his TLO and reports you so he can fill out his "type of contact and report" quota for the month. You are now on the TWL.

[whiterussian1974]

You decline to make an automated monthly donation to Clinton Crime Family Fund via credit or debit...

You are now on the TWL.

= 3 Stages of Understanding

[johndoe3]

A point of clarification..

The Terrorist Watch List is the master list and contains approximately 1,500,000 names. It is maintained by the joint Terrorist Screening Center (TSC) supervised by the Director of the FBI.

The No-Fly List is a subset of the Terrorist Watch List and supposedly it contains nearly 50,000 names, with less than 10,000 of those absolutely prohibited from flying and the rest flagged and tracked whenever they fly, but still allowed to fly. A simple mouse click in the TSC moves someone over to the cannot Fly list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist ... g_Database

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List

Senator Feinstein's amendment that lost on Thursday would have made all 1,500,000 names on the Terrorist Watch List become prohibited persons with regards to gun purchases (people who've committed no crime). All Democrat Senators voted for Feinstein's amendment and all Republican Senators voted against it.