Can't vote for either POTUS candidate.

[themonk]

Do you guys like gun rights? Do you like and want to keep the 2nd Amendment? If so then this is one of the those elections where you pull up your big boy panties, pinch your nose and vote fro Trump.

I appreciate the talk of voting for Johnson, but at the end of the day it is a vote for Hillary and a vote for Hillary is a vote against the 2nd Amendment. We are talking about a minimum 2 Supreme Court justices if not 3 or 4. If you vote for Hillary straight up or by proxy through Johnson or a write in, you are voting for a complete change of the united States of America and it will never be changed back.

[themonk]

Do you guys like gun rights? Do you like and want to keep the 2nd Amendment? If so then this is one of the those elections where you pull up your big boy panties, pinch your nose and vote for Trump.

I appreciate the talk of voting for Johnson, but at the end of the day it is a vote for Hillary and a vote for Hillary is a vote against the 2nd Amendment. We are talking about a minimum 2 Supreme Court justices if not 3 or 4. If you vote for Hillary straight up or by proxy through Johnson or a write in, you are voting for a complete change of the united States of America and it will never be changed back.

[Capt. Link.]

I honestly don't get this right wing anti Trump rhetoric.The RNC and persons who oppose him at this point forward are asking for Killiry to take the WH and most likely start the second civil war in this country.The whole of this government needs to be overhauled and the power returned to the people of these United States.I no longer trust the RNC as they seam to be determined to split the vote and give the country to the liberals.We can't survive another term with the socialists dismantling the country.I have no illusions about Trump but I do trust him more than any other politician standing.I say put away your petty squabbles about who you would like to see in the WH and back the man who is the presumptive candidate.
-CL

[CanOfWhooppass]

This is starting to drift away from the topic. Like the first post says if you know who you will vote for this is not your thread. If you find both candidates unacceptable, welcome to my frustrated stance.

There is a good point that even if a third party ran, it would split the vote at worst and hardly matter at best. Is the two party system to blame?

Why can't primaries let you put the candidates in order of prefrence so your vote dosn't become worthless if your candidate drops out?

Shouldn't everyone's 3rd choice beat everyone's 4th?

http://democracyweb.org/node/49

I like the line that talks about our founders trying to prevent tyranny. I think tyranny is both choices this election.

[CanOfWhooppass]

There is more than one election at stake. With changing demographics... He may ensure there is not another republican president for decades. He is 180 degrees from where they need to go and will be there spokesmen for 4 years at least.

I think that Doubloon is right. The GOP congress will be an 'opposition party' to Trump. Maybe they would concede to Hillary b/c it would mean lining their own pockets.

I think that voters will see that Trump isn't GOP. Then, they can decide which they prefer. Trump or GOP Rinos.

And Trump is unlikely to attack a Foreign Nation. He blusters and shakes a Big Stick, but so did Reagan.

What precisely is required to launch an attack or trigger nukes? Does the Defense Sec have to concur w an Invasion or Attack Order? Can anyone like a NorAD Group Commander countermand a Launch Order? I think that the DefCon level has to be at 2 or 1 before a Launch can take place. Otherwise 2 guys in a silo could decide to trigger Ar-Megeddon. There has to be at LEAST a 3-stage process before the missiles can fly.

THe Football code to Release Weapons-free. A Strike Contingency Code telling exactly which missiles to launch, their Targets, and MERV coordinates/yields. The DefCon going above 3. The National Command Authority communicating with the Missile Wing Network. And the Missile Wing giving permission to Launch.

Some missiles might also require the cryogenic fuels be loaded into the fuel tanks and Hardware Safeties be disabled. Maintenance or Security Personnel does this. The Launch Officers must key in the Contingency Scenario. And code the Yields and Targets.

Then they must use their own Judgement whether it makes sense to Launch. A Trade Dispute probably doesn't meet the Standard to which they've been trained. Then again, they don't get Live TV in the Silos. So they only know what their Commanders tell them via Secure Data Links.

I'm not worried about Trump launching nukes, it's his inability to back down and be diplomatic. What happens when he starts name calling with Putin or someone likely to call names back like Bashar al-Assad? Who in Congress would not call for war after a us facility gets barrel bombed? What happens next time North Korea starts prevoking? And what happens after he back steps over a threat and looks weak or powerless? We need a chess master, not an emotional bully. Hillary sucks too, just explaining my fears over Trump this post.

[ick]

I am going to have quite a bit of difficulty choosing in November. Both candidates are so good I can't hardly decide. Can I vote for both?

[Capt. Link.]

A failure to vote is a decision that limit's any credibility of comments after the election.

The phrase United We Stand Divided We Fall hits this thread at its core!

While I perfectly understand the post I find the desire to limit a counter point subversive.

-CL

[CanOfWhooppass]

A failure to vote is a decision that limit's any credibility of comments after the election.

The phrase United We Stand Divided We Fall hits this thread at its core!

While I perfectly understand the post I find the desire to limit a counter point subversive.

-CL

I understand the premise that if you don't vote you shouldn't get to complain if your person lost, but I'm not sure a person who has always voted and then didn't because he can't tolerate either candidate loses any credability. If you believe voting is a responsability, I agree and wish voting in the US was mandatory so our politicians wouldn't have to create wedge issues and bills sure to fail just to get a turnout. But even under compulsory voting I'd leave this one blank.

I'm not trying to limit points of view, but I don't want this thread to digress into meaness like many political threads lately have.

I don't have a high regard for either candidate as the thread obviously states, but I'm not name calling. I think a level of respect should be shown for the office even if you don't like the person.

When you use "Killiry" and then push Trump that is exactly what I asked to avoid in the OP. You have a valid point of view, but I don't want the next poster to be putting up pictures of a candidate photo shopped into Hitler or a prostitute. If I'm being unreasonable overall or unfair to you, I am sorry.

[whiterussian1974]

A failure to vote is a decision that limit's any credibility of comments after the election.
-CL

But even under compulsory voting I'd leave this one blank.

I don't want the next poster to be putting up pictures of a candidate photo shopped into Hitler or a prostitute.

Capt: Failure and Refusal aren't the same thing.

I'm choosing to vote for the least offensive as Can has stated in his OP that he typically does.
---
Can: Normally I use write-ins (or Clear Losers such as Libertarian or Green Party in TX) as a Protest Vote. Especially when there is no opposition Candidate or a Clear Favorite like for TX Land Commissioner or several Court Positions in the last TX General Ballot and Primaries.

But Hillary is just a nose ahead of Trump in the Polls. Voting for a 3rd Party, is essentially a Vote for Hillary this time. So I'll be voting 'against' her, instead of 'for' Trump.
---
There have been some Elections in Mexico and the USA over the past several yrs where Mickey Mouse, Boots the Cat, or Pedro the Mule have been voted in as Mayor of small towns and some not so small.

Since animals can't write their names, this has led to some interesting solutions depending upon the Statutes. In 1 case they left the options on 2 separate papers. Whichever the Mayor shat upon, lost. The Cat would sleep on whichever Proposal he preferred. Pedro-the-Mule nodded his head or twisted it back-and-forth to determine whether to Sustain or Veto.

In each case, the Voters felt that semi-random Chance was preferable to Gov't Corruption. The Human would definitely sell their Choice. The Animal was more honest.
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It's a Pity that we don't have more Honestly-Monitored Plebiscites in this country. I think that Direct Democracy would be far better for many Issues that Politicians wheel-and-deal for. The Result is Bloated Pork and Spending Bills that we can't afford.
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I don't want the next poster to be putting up pictures of a candidate photo shopped into Hitler or a prostitute.

They don't need to. You've now firmly placed some 'naughty' visuals in my head. I'm ROFL visualizing Trump behind a Pig like in the film where the UK PM was extorted into doing this on Live TV streamed round the World. Or the 'DaVinci's Demons' episode where he projected this onto the clouds above the City.

Or Pimp Dog Hillary smoking cigars while berating her Uniformed Military staff to: Bring her Tea, Show her how to send a Fax, and Delete her Emails while she sells Uranium to Terrorists in a Canadian-based Incorporation. (Actually happened while she was Sec State.)

Meanwhile on the Street below outside her 5th Ave Penthouse Office window: The US Taxpayer is covered in Cosmetics standing on a Street Corner waiting for China, Russia and EU to cruise by and pick us up. Haggling our price down to a $2 whore. Or maybe a $3 with BIll's portrait on it.

I agree with you about the Solemnity of the POTUS Office. But Candidates don't have this Honor. They have historically disgraced the process clear back to the Adam's Era. Candidates have accused each other of the wildest immoralities and obscenities. So what we are witnessing today is extremely tame by comparison.
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I also don't feel that Trump will treat Foreign Leaders the way he does Domestic. Look to his Past Diplomacy in Commercial Negotiations with Foreign Entities. He doesn't threaten. He simply leaves the Table until the Other Side is willing to compromise.

Negotiating from Weakness and giving the Other Side everything they want is hardly a sound Strategy. The Treaties and 'Deals' of the past 7yrs prove this. Giving Terror-money and Nuke Tech to Iran was hardly sound Negotiation. It was Ideologically-driven Forfeiture.

[CanOfWhooppass]

Lots of good points here, I just can't take the final step of voting for Trump that many of you have. I don't expect many on a pro gun site to support anyone running on a gun control agenda and I can't either. I just don't want to look back after 4 years and know I supported someone I thought was very likely to get many US soldiers killed. Hillary for all her faults does know how the political game works. Alianating Muslims makes it very hard for us to apply any power. Drone strikes depend upon being allowed to use air space and having bases. When Afghanistan and Pakistan are not our allies they breed our enemies. Intelegence from Muslims and Arab nations are critical to our efforts. When I picture Trump calling the shots during the next Bengazi, Cuban missile crisis, Syria, Croatia, etc. It terrifies me. I don't want to lose my guns, and don't want to send our soldiers to another ground war in some distant sand pit. Hillary will have a hard time passing any gun legislation and Trump will have a hard time not saying something stupid. How long before he spits out clasified information on national TV because his emotions get the best of him? He's a bragad and egotistical bully and his bussiness partners and workers often get the short end of the stick.

I think it was Roy Rogers who said, " it's not what you pay a man that matters, it's what he costs you"

[Capt. Link.]

Many of you know me pretty well.I'm pro military pro democracy and believe in fairness in law.I for one would not sully this post with the lunacy of the left or the right isle.

This election is different than all others in that agendas are very well known and are aimed at undermining the US constitution and the rights of American citizens.I don't wish to see this country ripped apart and suffer more than it already has.Even with a ideal candidate it will take years to undo the damage this administration has done in my opinion.

At this time in history we have a two party system.You have the option to vote for one party or the other.While it's your option to cast a ballot not casting one will result in a voice not being heard.While you may not like the presumptive candidates how do you feel about the vote being split and half of the country's desires to remain a sovereign country being denied.

I'm not going to stand on a soapbox and say vote for X but will shout that this America will cease to exist if you don't vote.

-CL

[whiterussian1974]

At this time in history we have a two party system.You have the option to vote for one party or the other.

Good post.
It's like choosing b/t M&Ms w or wo peanuts. If USA has a peanut allergy, it seems that we must vote for wo, or we will face deadly consequences of risking a peanut-induced suffocation when our throat swells.

Hillary is peanuts covered in peanut butter. Trump is a nasty, bitter pill. But that foul pill probably won't kill us. So not choking to death drives my vote. I may hate it. I may be disgusted by it. But failing to choose Plain M&M means that others will vote for Peanut, and I will suffer the consequence.

{Darn WR. That's a really deep Philosophical Analogy. You really deserve a pat on the back for that. }

[whiterussian1974]

I just don't want to look back after 4 years and know I supported someone I thought was very likely to get many US soldiers killed. Hillary for all her faults does know how the political game works.

When I picture Trump calling the shots during the next Bengazi, Cuban missile crisis, Syria, Croatia, etc. It terrifies me. I don't want to send our soldiers to another ground war in some distant sand pit. Hillary will have a hard time passing any gun legislation and Trump will have a hard time not saying something stupid. How long before he spits out clasified information on national TV because his emotions get the best of him?

I think it was Roy Rogers who said, "it's not what you pay a man that matters, it's what he costs you"

But this post is an Indictment of Clinton. She has cost us Military and Political secrets, risked and killed our Troops and Diplomats, and made 125 mil$ selling our Natural Resources, Intellectual Property, National Secrets, Critical Tech, and Strategic Industry.

Clinton may not blurt something out in a speech. But she'll do it in emails to friends and coworkers on unsecured servers. Then lie and cover up the hacks. (Personally I think that she sold passwords to certain groups so that they can read the emails. This was a technique that spies used in the early 90s. Saving 'Draft' copies in secured emails and not sending them. So little risk of interception unless someone brute forced the password.)

And Trump would act like JFK during Cuban Missile Crisis. The Other Side would be terrified that he would carpet bomb or nuke them if they get crazy. With Hillary, they would just offer to fund her "Charity" and she would give them whatever they wanted. Our own Nation be damned. (In the words of Obama and his 'Spiritual Adviser.' "Chickens coming Home to roost.")
===
The Pres is only 1 man. He can do little wo Cabinet approval and support. More now than in the past wo Congressional Support. But still he is limited when giving Orders. For Domestic, he need DoJ AG to sign off. For Mil, he needs SecState and DoD/SecDef to concur. Otherwise, Obama would have us living in mud huts and praying to Mecca 5xs a day. We would walk or ride bikes everywhere and noone could have A/C or much electrical usage.

It's the Cabinet and Admin Personnel that limit a Dictator. That's why Senate Confirmations are so important. They can't just Rubber Stamp nominations as they did 8yrs ago. They must moderate Appointments to temper the Chief Exec's God Complex.
===
Again. I think that the GOP would be more against Trump than Clinton. They despise him as an "upstart." Whereas Hillary is a 'Blue Blood' "One of Us." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freaks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C4uTEEOJlM

She would cut backroom deals to line all of their pockets. That's what her "experience" taught her.

[ick]

Seems to me that this is more akin to a high school bully that has an freshman by the back of the neck in the locker room and asks him... "which urinal do you want to drink from?"

There really isn't a choice here.

[whiterussian1974]

Seems to me that this is more akin to a high school bully that has an freshman by the back of the neck in the locker room and asks him... "which urinal do you want to drink from?"

There really isn't a choice here.

The choice is drink from the Urinal. Or eat from the Toilet.

A slight difference. But an important one.

You really have to watch this clip. I looked it up after my last post.

Gooble, Gooble, One of Us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C4uTEEOJlM

It is a great parody of the DC and NYC Elites.
It's from the B&W film "Freaks" from 1932. Some people may be offended by the use of "deformed" actors in the film about Circus and Sideshow Freaks and how they live.

[CanOfWhooppass]

Excellent posts and points, don't know what to do I truly don't see Trump as a lesser evil, I really place them even. Maybe a lesser evil in the short term but able to do more damage in the long run.

The 1964 voting rights act and civil rights act drove the black vote democratic ever since. How will the rebublicans do without Muslim, Hispanic and LGBT as well?

I'm an independant, both parties do things I despise and tend to vote based on the direction from center the pendulum needs to swing. A single party dominating for long term would be horrible in my my oppinion. People have said that people will understand that Trump dosnt represent the rebublicans, but that may only be true of people who are republicans.

[whiterussian1974]

I truly don't see Trump as a lesser evil, I really place them even.

The 1964 voting rights act and civil rights act drove the black vote democratic ever since. How will the rebublicans do without Muslim, Hispanic and LGBT as well?

I'm an independant, both parties do things I despise and tend to vote based on the direction from center the pendulum needs to swing.

People have said that people will understand that Trump dosnt represent the rebublicans, but that may only be true of people who are republicans.

If you truly view them as equal, then you have a true dilemma.

The 1964 VRA was Republican passed. The Dems largely voted against it. Yet Messaging has allowed the Dems to subvert History. They claim that THEY were responsible for the passage and changed tactics and Strategies to court the Minority Vote, while simultaneously using the KKK as their Party's Enforcement Arm.
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Republicans really need to message better. Trump is a Populist, not a Rep. We need to get that message across to the larger Populace.

But State-linked Media will continue the Leftist narrative no matter what the Facts prove.

I deeply respect your Historic Dialectic approach. No pendulum should swing so far that the Structure topples.

I regard myself as Socially Liberal, Fiscally Conservative. Many say that this means that I'm Libertarian. That is largely correct. I'm for Freedom until it causes actual physical harm to others. And strong words and tough love aren't criminal in my mind.

[whiterussian1974]

The 1964 voting rights act and civil rights act drove the black vote democratic ever since. How will the rebublicans do without Muslim, Hispanic and LGBT as well?

Trump is already changing his tune. He reportedly told the NYTimes at the beginning of his bid that the 'Wall' was hyperbolic bluster. Just scraps of meat to throw to the Masses.

He USES illegal and foreign labor at his businesses. Golf courses, resorts, construction, cleaning crews, housekeeping, etc, etc, etc.

Look at his Actions, not his words. How has he actually behaved over the past 20yrs? He MAY have had some Late-Life conversions in Philosophy. But he's a NYC Lib at heart.

He's changed his mind on Right to Life and 2nd A. But he's still a Big Spender. And now he has the US Treasury and Bank of China to fund his Ventures.

But Hillary would be even worse. Trump is a Businessman. Hillary a Traitor, Thief, steals from the poor of Africa/Haiti/US Slums to gold plate her own nest and Gulfstreams.

You think Obama used his Office to spend money on vacations, golfing, sending his Fam to exotic locales? Clinton and Bill will rip the Economy apart and retire to a Private Island or peninsula. Bill's trips to Pedophile Estates with Jeffrey Epstein is just the tip of his abuse of young women.

Can you imagine him as an Ambassador to Thailand? Good Lord!!! And he'd have full Diplomatic Immunity backed by 1k+ nukes.

Them returning to Power after all of the Patriot Act and USA Protect Act, Expanding Exec Orders, etc would be a Coup from within. Like if Gen Douglas MacArthur had won. He basically installed himself as Chief Regent of Occupied Japan. And would have run the USA as a Military Dictatorship if he had won the Presidency.

There have been movies about this. Their Titles presently allude me.

Donald has actually negotiated Commercial Contracts for mutually beneficial Deals. Hillary is experienced at selling USA interests to the Highest Bidder.

This is the problem. Trump is a braggadocious Jerk. Hillary is an out an out Cold Blooded Murderer. She refused to send extra Security to Benghazi despite Ambassador Stevens begging for help. He even requested Foreign Security Forces assist in protecting his Embassy if attacked because the WH and SecState wouldn't lift a finger.

She should be Indicted for Treason. He has only made pompous self-serving Statements. But never used Military Power to murder Innocent Civilians or refuse to protect Brave Americans.

He's never sold National Secrets or Strategic Resources to Foreign Powers linked to Terrorism. And he doesn't intend to strip the Bill of Rights. Any of them.

[Capt. Link.]

I used to identify myself as a Republican though I did not always agree with some of their decisions.Over the last several cycles I now call myself a Conservative.I am socially liberal though I disapprove of any group having special status.I think the rule of law must be upheld but those laws must be in line with what the citizens wants not our elected officials.They are supposed to do the will of the people not a personel agenda.

There is disinformation that has been spread so much that it is taken for fact.Many voters can't tell the difference do to media bias and popularity of faux science.I wonder how much of some peoples dislike of the presumptive candidate Trump is do to the Kool Aid vs the historical record of fact.

I know the historical facts on the other candidate all to well.The written record by her own party not that of opposition.

[whiterussian1974]

There is disinformation that has been spread so much that it is taken for fact.Many voters can't tell the difference do to media bias and popularity of faux science.I wonder how much of some peoples dislike of the presumptive candidate Trump is do to the Kool Aid vs the historical record of fact.

You express yourself very well.

What Facts about Trump do you feel are improperly reported? I don't doubt that you are correct. I'm asking for any Specifics that you are privy to. I don't want to continue spreading false propaganda if I can help it.

[Capt. Link.]

There is disinformation that has been spread so much that it is taken for fact.Many voters can't tell the difference do to media bias and popularity of faux science.I wonder how much of some peoples dislike of the presumptive candidate Trump is do to the Kool Aid vs the historical record of fact.

You express yourself very well.

What Facts about Trump do you feel are improperly reported? I don't doubt that you are correct. I'm asking for any Specifics that you are privy to. I don't want to continue spreading false propaganda if I can help it.

I don't wish to hijack the thread.I only wished to express the importance of voting in this of all elections.If for no other reason than to keep your 2A rights please get off the fence and defeat a repeat of the last 8 years of our eroding freedoms.
-CL

[0101silent]

--

[5th_Amendment]

I'm actually excited and terrified at the same time this election. Excited at the prospect of Trump and some strong 2nd amendment support from the top but terrified he can't act presidential and control his mouth, terrified at the prospect of Hillary and a liberal SCOTUS. I'm laughing at all the "Republicans" who are coming out in favor of Hillary ... that's WHY many of us are SO pissed in the first place. We have undercover Dems all over the Rep party. I'm definitely voting Trump to send a message, and work for his campaign, making phone calls and whatever else it takes to preserve my freedoms for my kids.

As for Europe, It's a beautiful place doomed to fail in the same manner the Articles of Confederation failed. They need a strong central Government and a strong military of their own instead of merely focusing on Economics.

[whiterussian1974]

I'm actually excited and terrified at the same time this election.

As for Europe, It's a beautiful place doomed to fail in the same manner the Articles of Confederation failed. They need a strong central Government and a strong military of their own instead of merely focusing on Economics.

Correct.
In Civics, I learned that "There are only 4 Legitimate Functions of a Centralized Nation Gov't under the Federal System."

1: Establishment of Standards (weight and measures.) This is so that an oz or inch in Kentucky is the same as CO. And that Fed Laws and Patent Copyrights have merit in describing their Contents.

2: Guaranty the Interchangeability of Systems. This integrates Local, County and State roads, Electric and TeleComm Networks, Railroads, Rivers/Lakes/Navigable Water Ways, and Air/Space Usage. (Aircraft, Radio Freqs, Rights of Way, etc.)

3: Establishment of a Common Currency for payments of Debt and settling Accts.
This allows Payment of Customs, Duties, Taxes, Interstate Commodity purchases, etc.

States and Local Communities and CryptoCurrencies aren't to be affected. They simply must be convertible to a Standard recognized by the Fed Central Bank Corp that accepts these means of payment and Commodity exchange.

4: Establishment of Air/Sea/Space/Land Forces to protect the Common Union. This Professional Military System integrates w the State Militias to provide a Unitary Executive to combat Common Enemies. Each Member State is to provide "A Well-regulated Militia" meaning: Armed, Trained, Organized, and Funded Citizen Minuteman Brigades.

Instead, Fed and State officials have largely stripped this Citizen Militia of those means of Personal and State Defense. Restricting participation, arms, training, and instead of funding the Militias; taxing and discouraging them in their Role as Infantry/Cavalry/Mechanized/and Para/Engineer/Medic/Supply/Transport specialties.

[doubloon]

...Correct.
...

TMC;DR