Making a trust myself, have no idea how it works.

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Twinsen
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Making a trust myself, have no idea how it works.

Post by Twinsen »

Alright guys, I know you can help me here because you've all done this before. I've spent countless hours on the internet trying to figure out how to make this trust and the help I've gotten is pretty freakin minimal.

I have Quicken Willmaker, I've started a Basic Living Trust session within the program. I got up to the property section and have no idea what I am supposed to do at this stage. I started to follow this walkthrough
http://www.arizonagunlist.com/How_to_bu ... gnoff.html
but it goes into just enough detail to be absolutely no help at all and not really say anything beyond what Willmaker tells me to do on each page. It doesn't specify what you are supposed to do when adding NFA firearms, nor does any other "guide" that I've found. They've all been completely useless. What's the point in making an NFA trust walkthrough without mentioning anything about NFA items or how the trust relates to them?!

So here I am, at that page where I am supposed to add things to go into the trust. Do I type in my YHM Mite silencer that I've purchased but obviously isn't transferred yet? If not, what do I write in, and when do I write in that silencer? If I have to add it later, do I have to change the trust somehow and reprint it out and have it notarized again? None of these types of things have I seen explained on this forum or elsewhere.

Thanks for any help you can give me, if you can get past my unrelenting and abrasive sarcasm.
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Twinsen
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Post by Twinsen »

I've been helped in great detail through PM. Thanks forum.
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Post by V8Astro »

I might hit you up in a few months. I want to make a trust for this pile of Form 1 suppressors I plan to build...

I've had the same experience. I read about all I could on the making of the trust and it brought up more questions than answers.
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dae.edorian
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Post by dae.edorian »

If you've found an answer, please share it.
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Post by jppd47 »

I'm going tis route also. My cleo is apparently extremely hard to get a hold of. I used quicken as well. In the property area I just wrote. YHM silencer, model: Mite, serial number: #%^&%$. I am going to get it notarized tomorrow. If this happens to be wrong please ring in
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MisterWilson
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Post by MisterWilson »

Okay, as near as I can tell you do this.

Make the trust.

Leave the schedule blank.

When your dealer receives the silencer, THEN you add it to the schedule with the serial number and mail that with your form 4 off the the ATF.

You cannot submit the form 4 or add the silencer to the schedule until your dealer receives it because you MUST have the serial number in advance.

You are not required to notarize the schedule when you add something to it, just make a new copy.

Any other questions?


ETA: Also, if your bank gives you ANY flak about notarizing trusts because they're such ignorant asshats that they don't want to do it, just inform them that they're only notarizing the fact that YOU signed it, not that any paperwork contained within is in order.
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Twinsen
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Post by Twinsen »

no4mk1t wrote:Twinsen,

With Willmaker, you are creating 3 documents.

1. The DECLARATION of Trust.
This is where the Grantor, Trustee(s), and Beneficiaries are named. Also named are certain individuals who may be called upon to determine your fitness to serve as Trustee in the event of serious illness. This document gets notarized. There is only one ORIGINAL. Make copies, then lock it up.

2. The CERTIFICATE of Trust.
This document is a legal statement of proof that the Trust actually exists. This document gets notarized. Print several and have each notarized as an original.

3. Schedule A
This document lists the items held by the Trust. You must "fund" the Trust with something to start with to make it legal. Something with a serial number is recommended. I used an old rifle. Make it something you are very unlikely to ever sell.
AFTER your F4 is approved and you have your NFA item in hand, you add it to Schedule A, print it out, sign it, and store with your Trust documents and F4 in a very safe place. Destroy the first Schedule A.

When you send your package to ATF, this is what it should contain:

F4
Citizenship form
A COPY of the notarized DECLARATION. (there should only be one original.)
An ORIGINAL Certificate with embossed notary seal.
A COPY of the Schedule A.
$200.

Hope this helps.
Thanks man.

For mine, I put in a serial numbered Benchmade knife that I have.
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Post by jppd47 »

Fantastic. I was heading in the right track.
Thanks
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Twinsen
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Post by Twinsen »

Well, it says don't put the silencer into the trust until you have it in your hand, to start it with something else.
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MisterWilson
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Post by MisterWilson »

Yup. When I made my SBR I started it with the rifle but in your case you could just use anything.

I, Homer J Simpson, hereby transfer this Bic Cigarette Lighter to the Homer J Simpson Family Revocable Living Trust...
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Post by trey_phish83 »

does anyone have a example of what its suppose to look like? maybe a pdf with a fake name and fake suppressor or something?
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Twinsen
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Post by Twinsen »

Try looking in the Willmaker "legal guide", which is just the little help tool within the program on making trusts.
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Twinsen
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Post by Twinsen »

I saved the example as a word document, but I guess I can't upload a file here. Here it is just pasted in.

Declaration of Trust


Part 1. Trust Name

This revocable living trust shall be known as the Sheila Jenkins Revocable Living Trust.

Part 2. Declaration of Trust

Sheila Jenkins, called the grantor, declares that she has transferred and delivered to the trustee all her interest in the property described in Schedule A attached to this Declaration of Trust. All of that property is called the "trust property." The trustee hereby acknowledges receipt of the trust property and agrees to hold the trust property in trust, according to this Declaration of Trust.

The grantor may add property to the trust.

Part 3. Terminology

The term "this Declaration of Trust" includes any provisions added by valid amendment.

Part 4. Amendment and Revocation

A. Amendment or Revocation by Grantor

The grantor may amend or revoke this trust at any time, without notifying any beneficiary. An amendment must be made in writing and signed by the grantor. Revocation may be in writing or any manner allowed by law.

B. Amendment or Revocation by Other Person

The power to revoke or amend this trust is personal to the grantor. A conservator, guardian or other person shall not exercise it on behalf of the grantor, unless the grantor specifically grants a power to revoke or amend this trust in a Durable Power of Attorney.

Part 5. Payments From Trust During Grantor's Lifetime

The trustee shall pay to or use for the benefit of the grantor as much of the net income and principal of the trust property as the grantor requests. Income shall be paid to the grantor at least annually. Income accruing in or paid to trust accounts shall be deemed to have been paid to the grantor.

Part 6. Trustees

A. Trustee

Sheila Jenkins shall be the trustee of this trust.

B. Trustee's Responsibilities

The trustee in office shall serve as trustee of all trusts created under this Declaration of Trust, including children's subtrusts.

C. Terminology

In this Declaration of Trust, the term "trustee" includes successor trustees or alternate successor trustees serving as trustee of this trust. The singular "trustee" also includes the plural.

D. Successor Trustee

Upon the death or incapacity of Sheila Jenkins, the trustee of this trust and of any children's subtrusts created by it shall be Richard Jenkins. If Richard Jenkins is unable or unwilling to serve as successor trustee, Ann Heron shall serve as trustee.

E. Resignation of Trustee

Any trustee in office may resign at any time by signing a notice of resignation. The resignation shall be delivered to the person or institution who is either named in this Declaration of Trust, or appointed by the trustee under Section F of this Part, to next serve as the trustee.

F. Power to Appoint Successor Trustee

If no one named in this Declaration of Trust as a successor trustee or alternate successor trustee is willing or able to serve as trustee, the last acting trustee may appoint a successor trustee and may require the posting of a reasonable bond, to be paid for from the trust property. The appointment must be made in writing, signed by the trustee and notarized.

G. Bond

No bond shall be required for any trustee named in this Declaration of Trust.

H. Compensation

No trustee shall receive any compensation for serving as trustee, unless the trustee serves as a trustee of a child's subtrust created by this Declaration of Trust.

I. Liability of Trustee

With respect to the exercise or non-exercise of discretionary powers granted by this Declaration of Trust, the trustee shall not be liable for actions taken in good faith. Such actions shall be binding on all persons interested in the trust property.

Part 7. Trustee's Management Powers and Duties

A. Powers Under State Law

The trustee shall have all authority and powers allowed or conferred on a trustee under Arizona law, subject to the trustee's fiduciary duty to the grantors and the beneficiaries.

B. Specified Powers

The trustee's powers include, but are not limited to:

The power to sell trust property, and to borrow money and to encumber trust property, including trust real estate, by mortgage, deed of trust or other method.
The power to manage trust real estate as if the trustee were the absolute owner of it, including the power to lease (even if the lease term may extend beyond the period of any trust) or grant options to lease the property, to make repairs or alterations and to insure against loss.
The power to sell or grant options for the sale or exchange of any trust property, including stocks, bonds, debentures and any other form of security or security account, at public or private sale for cash or on credit.
The power to invest trust property in every kind of property and every kind of investment, including but not limited to bonds, debentures, notes, mortgages, stock options, futures and stocks, and including buying on margin.
The power to receive additional property from any source and add it to any trust created by this Declaration of Trust.
The power to employ and pay reasonable fees to accountants, lawyers or investment experts for information or advice relating to the trust.
The power to deposit and hold trust funds in both interest-bearing and non-interest bearing accounts.
The power to deposit funds in bank or other accounts, whether or not they are insured by the FDIC.
The power to enter into electronic fund transfers or safe deposit arrangements with financial institutions.
The power to continue any business of the grantor.
The power to institute or defend legal actions concerning this trust or the grantor's affairs.
The power to execute any documents necessary to administer any trust created by this Declaration of Trust.
The power to diversify investments, including authority to decide that some or all of the trust property need not produce income.
Part 8. Incapacity of Grantor

If the grantor becomes physically or mentally incapacitated, whether or not a court has declared the grantor incompetent or in need of a conservator or guardian, the successor trustee named in Part 6 shall be trustee.

The determination of the grantor's capacity to manage this trust shall be made by Patricia Jenkins. The successor trustee shall, if necessary, ask Patricia Jenkins to state, in writing, an opinion as to whether or not the grantor is able to continue serving as trustee. The successor trustee may rely on that written opinion when determining whether or not to begin serving as trustee.

If the successor trustee is unable, after making reasonable efforts, to obtain a written opinion from Patricia Jenkins, the successor trustee may request an opinion from Eric Workman and may rely on that opinion.

If the successor trustee is also unable, after making reasonable efforts, to obtain a written opinion from Eric Workman, the successor trustee may request an opinion from Delia Holt and may rely on that opinion.

If the successor trustee is unable, after making reasonable efforts, to obtain a written opinion from Patricia Jenkins, Eric Workman or Delia Holt, the successor trustee may request an opinion from a physician who examines the grantor, and may rely on that opinion.

The trustee shall use any amount of trust income or trust property necessary for the grantor's proper health care, support, maintenance, comfort and welfare, in accordance with the grantor's accustomed manner of living. Any income not spent for the benefit of the grantor shall be accumulated and added to the trust property. Income shall be paid to the grantor at least annually. Income accruing in or paid to trust accounts shall be deemed to have been paid to the grantor.

The successor trustee shall manage the trust until the grantor is again able to manage her affairs. The determination of the grantor's capacity to again manage this trust shall be made in the manner specified just above.

Part 9. Death of a Grantor

When the grantor dies, this trust shall become irrevocable. It may not be amended or altered except as provided for by this Declaration of Trust. It may be terminated only by the distributions authorized by this Declaration of Trust.

The trustee may pay out of trust property such amounts as necessary for payment of the grantor's debts, estate taxes and expenses of the grantor's last illness and funeral.

Part 10. Beneficiaries

At the death of the grantor, the trustee shall distribute the trust property as follows:

Richard Jenkins shall be given Sheila Jenkins's interest in 100 shares of Applied Dynamics stock. If Richard Jenkins does not survive Sheila Jenkins, that property shall be given to Patricia Jenkins.

David Jenkins shall be given Sheila Jenkins's interest in the trust property not otherwise specifically and validly disposed of by this Part. If David Jenkins does not survive Sheila Jenkins, that property shall be given to Richard Jenkins.

Part 11. Terms of Property Distribution

All distributions are subject to any provision in this Declaration of Trust that creates a child's subtrust or a custodianship under the Uniform Transfers to Minors Act.

A beneficiary must survive the grantor for 120 hours to receive property under this Declaration of Trust. As used in this Declaration of Trust, to survive means to be alive or in existence as an organization.

All personal and real property left through this trust shall pass subject to any encumbrances or liens placed on the property as security for the repayment of a loan or debt.

If property is left to two or more beneficiaries to share, they shall share it equally unless this Declaration of Trust provides otherwise. If any of them does not survive the grantor, the others shall take that beneficiary's share, to share equally, unless this Declaration of Trust provides otherwise.

Part 12. Custodianships Under the Uniform Transfers to Minors Act

Any property to which David Jenkins becomes entitled under Part 10 of this Declaration of Trust shall be given to Richard Jenkins, as custodian for David Jenkins under the Arizona Uniform Transfers to Minors Act, until David Jenkins reaches the age of 21. If Richard Jenkins is unable or ceases to serve as custodian, Ann Heron shall serve as custodian.

Part 13. Grantor's Right to Homestead Tax Exemption

If the grantor's principal residence is held in trust, the grantor has the right to possess and occupy it for life, rent-free and without charge except for taxes, insurance, maintenance and related costs and expenses. This right is intended to give the grantor a beneficial interest in the property and to ensure that the grantor does not lose eligibility for a state homestead tax exemption for which she otherwise qualifies.

Part 14. Severability of Clauses

If any provision of this Declaration of Trust is ruled unenforceable, the remaining provisions shall stay in effect.

Certification of Grantor

I certify that I have read this Declaration of Trust and that it correctly states the terms and conditions under which the trust property is to be held, managed and disposed of by the trustee, and I approve the Declaration of Trust.

_____________________________________ Dated: ______________

Sheila Jenkins, Grantor and Trustee

CERTIFICATE OF ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF NOTARY PUBLIC

State of Arizona )
) ss.
County of ______________________ )

On _________________, ______ before me, _________________________________, a notary public in and for said state, personally appeared _________________________________, personally known to me (or proved on the basis of satisfactory evidence) to be the person whose name is subscribed to the within instrument, and acknowledged to me that she/he executed the same in her/his authorized capacity, and that by her/his signature on the instrument the person, or the entity upon behalf of which the person acted, executed the instrument.

WITNESS my hand and official seal.

______________________________________
Notary Public for the State of Arizona

______________________________________


[NOTARIAL SEAL] My commission expires: ___________________








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SCHEDULE A

Property Placed in Trust

100 shares of Applied Dynamics stock.
House at 2100 Fortuna Street, Phoenix, Arizona.
Condominium at 57-A Alpine Way, Tahoe City, California.







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Property You Must Transfer Into the Trustee's Name

You must transfer the following items into your name as trustee of your living trust. If you don't, the items won't pass under the terms of the trust document.

For each item, you must use the appropriate transfer document -- for example, to transfer real estate, you must use a deed. Chapter 19 of the Legal Manual explains how to transfer title to various kinds of assets. (To view the Quicken WillMaker Legal Manual, open the Help menu or click the "Legal Manual" icon.)

[ ] 100 shares of Applied Dynamics stock

[ ] House at 2100 Fortuna Street, Phoenix, Arizona

[ ] Condominium at 57-A Alpine Way, Tahoe City, California








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

INSTRUCTIONS: Letter to the Successor Trustee

Accompanying these instructions is a document called "Letter to the Successor Trustee," which outlines the tasks your successor trustee will be asked to handle. It's not part of the trust document and has no legal effect. But you might want to show it to your proposed choice for successor trustee, so that he or she will have an idea of what is involved. You might also want to attach it to your trust document, for your successor trustee to read when it comes time to deal with your trust.








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Letter to the Successor Trustee

You have been nominated to serve as successor trustee for Sheila Jenkins, to be in charge of carrying out the plan expressed in her revocable living trust. To perform this role well, you do not need special financial or legal knowledge. Common sense, conscientiousness and honesty are the main requirements.

Your Duties

You won't have any responsibilities until Sheila Jenkins, the trust grantor, has died or can no longer manage her affairs.

Your Duties If the Grantor Becomes Incapacitated

If the grantor becomes unable to manage her affairs -- for example, because of illness or hospitalization -- you will take over as trustee. Before you can assume authority you must follow the procedure outlined in Part 8 of the trust document and obtain a written opinion of whether or not the grantor is capable of managing the trust. If you obtain a written opinion stating the grantor can no longer manage the trust, you are authorized to begin serving as trustee.

You'll want the person to sign something along these lines:

"I have determined that John E. Knight, grantor and trustee of the John E. Knight Revocable Living Trust dated June 5, 2008, has become incapacitated and is no longer reasonably able to manage the trust. My determination was made on the basis of my knowledge of the grantor's circumstances and condition. Under the terms of the trust document, this determination allows the successor trustee named in that document to serve as trustee."

In this situation, you have broad authority to manage the property in the living trust and use it for the grantor's health care, support and welfare. The law requires you to act honestly and prudently and in the grantor's best interests. And because the grantor is no longer the trustee, you must file an annual income tax return for the trust. If you need professional help -- from an accountant, lawyer or tax preparer, perhaps -- you can pay for it out of trust assets.

Your Duties After the Grantor's Death

After the grantor's death, you will take over as trustee. Your primary responsibility is to distribute trust property to the beneficiaries named in the trust document. That is usually a straightforward process that can be completed in a few weeks. For example, you might need to prepare, sign and file a deed, transferring trust real estate to its new owner.

Your Duties If You Must Manage a Child's Subtrust

The trust document may direct that if any of the trust beneficiaries are under 35 when they become entitled to inherit, a separate child's subtrust be created for each young beneficiary. Your job would be to manage the trust property, and use it for the beneficiary's health and welfare. The subtrust will end when the beneficiary reaches the age set out in the trust document.

Your Duties If There Is No Executor

If the deceased person didn't leave a will appointing an executor, or no one has taken on the responsibility of distributing the person's non-trust property, that job will probably fall to you. You'll also need to make sure that debts are paid (from the deceased person's assets) and that final tax returns are filed.

Payment

You are not entitled to payment for serving as successor trustee unless you manage the property in a child's subtrust. In that case, you are entitled, under the terms of the trust document, to "reasonable compensation." You decide what is reasonable and take it from the trust property left to the young beneficiary. A beneficiary who feels that the fees are much too high can go to court to challenge them.

If You Cannot Serve, or Choose Not To

Being named as a successor trustee does not obligate you to serve. When it comes time, you can choose whether to accept this responsibility. And even if you do agree to serve as successor trustee, you can resign at any time.

If you do not serve, for whatever reason, the person named as alternate in the trust document will become trustee. If no one named in the trust document can serve, the last trustee to serve can appoint another successor trustee.

If There Is More Than One Successor Trustee

All cotrustees must agree before any of you can act on behalf of the trust. If one of you cannot serve, the others will serve. If none of you can serve, the alternate will take over.

Getting Help

Many successor trustees handle the paperwork themselves with little difficulty. But you may want some expert help, at least once in a while.

Resources

Quicken WillMaker Plus 2008 (Nolo). The Legal Manual that comes with the software will help you understand how living trusts work. And it contains several chapters that discuss your duties, including Chapter 21, After a Grantor Dies. (To view the Quicken WillMaker Legal Manual, open the Help menu or click the "Legal Manual" icon.)

The Executor's Guide: Settling a Loved One's Estate or Trust, by Mary Randolph (Nolo). This book is a thorough guide to an executor's or trustee's duties. It explains how to wrap up someone's affairs with a minimum of heartache and hassle, from finding and protecting assets to transferring property to beneficiaries with or without formal probate.

How to Probate an Estate in California, by Julia Nissley (Nolo). This book shows you, step by step, how to wrap up a living trust and handle a California probate. It contains all probate court forms.

Experts

It might be useful to hire a lawyer for specific tasks -- for example, to do some research for you or look over documents. And if you must prepare and file an estate tax return or other complicated document, work with an experienced lawyer or CPA.

Names Mentioned in the Trust

Here are the people and organizations mentioned in the trust. (If the original document has been amended, this list may no longer be accurate.) If address and phone information was entered, it appears after the name.

Richard Jenkins

Successor trustee, Beneficiary, Alternate residuary beneficiary, Custodian under UTMA

Ann Heron

Alternate successor trustee, Alternate custodian under UTMA

Patricia Jenkins

Alternate beneficiary, Determines grantor incapacity

Eric Workman

Determines grantor incapacity

Delia Holt

Determines grantor incapacity

David Jenkins

Residuary beneficiary
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Twinsen
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Post by Twinsen »

Ok, I just had my trust signature notarized (so the trust now EXISTS) and filled in my Schedule A (which lists the property owned by the trust). The Schedule A doesn't have the silencer on it yet, because it doesn't own the silencer yet. So I now have a trust, and it owns a serial numbered knife.

When the thing gets transferred, apparently is when you add it to the Schedule A, print it out again, and sign it (doesn't need to be notarized) and then you destroy the old one. You need to sign a document that states that you are "handing stuff over" to the trust, under your name, and your own power.

It all makes sense now. I just printed out 3 Certificates of Trust, which are just documents that you get notarized that state that the trust exists and names the people involved. Apparently this is what people used to send out to BATFE solely as proof of a trust existing, but now they require a copy of the entire Declaration of Trust.

The Declaration you sign in front of a notary who notarizes it.
~You only make photocopies of this and store the original, it never changes. This is El Uno.
The Certificates of Trust just states that the trust exists and is a document signed and notarized that is meant to be handed out to people that require proof that the thing exists.
~You print another new one and sign and notarize it everytime you need one. I'm gonna notarize 3 of them tomorrow, at least 1 is going to BATFE.
The Schedule A is a list of what the trust owns.
~You update it with another document everytime you add to the trust, and destroy the old one.

I think.
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