Latest on Olofson case

[Mongo]

http://jpfo.org/pdf02/olofson-reply-brief.pdf

The guy posted a real sob story on ARF and now that some more of the facts are coming out you can see he was doing s--t he knew was illegal and got caught and is now pissed (and in prison).

[ArevaloSOCOM]

Indeed, when first “test-firedâ€

[bmanka]

...he was doing s--t he knew was illegal and got caught

I read the doc but didn't find what he did that was illegal. I read the parts discussing that his gun had some M-16 fire control group parts, but it seems that it didn't contain all the parts required to make the gun full auto. It also said that the M-16 components were installed by the manufacturer. I know some AR-15 are shipped with M-16 bolt carriers, but that doesn't make a gun illegal.

I may have missed it. What specifically did he do?

[ctdonath]

AFAIK, he knew the gun would frequently MALFUNCTION, doubling (or tripling) then jamming, when the selector switch was in the THIRD (!) position. The gun wasn't made to fire full-auto, but it did so by error, and he never tried to fix the error - going so far as to loan it out and warn people about the problem (perhaps with a wink-and-nod).

The BATFE apparently refrained from charging him with a 922(o) violation, as it was admittedly a malfunction and did not fire >1 round for each trigger pull by intent/design.
They DID nail him for an NFA transfer violation, as he was fully aware of the malfunction, did not attempt to repair it, loaned (transferred) it to others while notifying them of the questionable behavior.

He played "how far can I push this" and lost. Kinda like people who wonder how close they can put their heads to a passing train.

[Mongo]

The manufacturer never installed a M16 selector, he did. He admitted to replacing all the trigger group components (in the aRF thread not this brief) so he installed M16 components as replacement parts on purpose.


I bet this guy had a DIAS hidden some where. Why else have a M16 selector?

[ArevaloSOCOM]

FWIW Mongo, you know more about how guns function than me, I simple wonder why an ATF initally called it NOT- a MG at first................then later call it a MG.

Seems to me thier standards are too fluid/ lack of standards.

[renegade]

FWIW Mongo, you know more about how guns function than me, I simple wonder why an ATF initally called it NOT- a MG at first................then later call it a MG.

On am M16 without a sear installed, the gun will SLAMFIRE when in the AUTO position. Since this a hammer follow condition, the Firing Pin does not always hit the primer hard enough to set it off for F/A operation.

So ATF used commercial soft primer ammo, and then it does fire F/A.

One can argue whether that is right or fair, but as MONGO says, this guy probably had an illegal DIAS somewhere and dropped that in when he wanted it to work.

He probably told the fool he lent it to NOT to put it in AUTO, but they guy did anyway, and got the SLAMFIRES.

IMO this guy is lying six ways to Tuesday, his story makes no sense, he has contradicted himself, and it is NOT TRUE the gun "MALFUNCTIONED", and his in jail for possessing a gun that merely MALFUNCTIONED. The gun is functioning EXACTLY as it should given the parts in it.

Usual disclaimer here I do not support the MG Ban/NFA law, but it is the law and he chose to break it, now he accepts the consequences.

[ArevaloSOCOM]

FWIW Mongo, you know more about how guns function than me, I simple wonder why an ATF initally called it NOT- a MG at first................then later call it a MG.

On am M16 without a sear installed, the gun will SLAMFIRE when in the AUTO position. Since this a hammer follow condition, the Firing Pin does not always hit the primer hard enough to set it off for F/A operation.

So ATF used commercial soft primer ammo, and then it does fire F/A.

One can argue whether that is right or fair, but as MONGO says, this guy probably had an illegal DIAS somewhere and dropped that in when he wanted it to work.

He probably told the fool he lent it to NOT to put it in AUTO, but they guy did anyway, and got the SLAMFIRES.

IMO this guy is lying six ways to Tuesday, his story makes no sense, he has contradicted himself, and it is NOT TRUE the gun "MALFUNCTIONED", and his in jail for possessing a gun that merely MALFUNCTIONED. The gun is functioning EXACTLY as it should given the parts in it.

Usual disclaimer here I do not support the MG Ban/NFA law, but it is the law and he chose to break it, now he accepts the consequences.

Ah ha........

So when the first ATF guy said it wasn't a MG, he was using regular primers? i assume.

Then they used the soft ones to get it to go FA? correct?

Thanks for schooling me.

[Mongo]

Ah ha........

So when the first ATF guy said it wasn't a MG, he was using regular primers? i assume.

Then they used the soft ones to get it to go FA? correct?

Thanks for schooling me.

Most likely they used military spec ammo which the primers are harder than commercial. Commercial has softer primers I believe so that shitty assed guns that have not been maintained will still fire after a POS has been left rusting and cocked in the closet 50 years. Military specify ammo with the harder primers for safety concerns. Given that, the ATF was not really pulling any hood wink JBT thing by using commercial ammo.


An ATF guy here that owns several FA guns and supports us, says that this guy had been pushing the limits before and was on their radar (this has been posted on a public board but I will not disclose which one).

This guy built AR15s for other people and is a regular on ARF so it is not like he was clueless on the internal of AR15s. Since he also replaced all the trigger group components he had to buy specifically M16 parts to use, you don't get them accidentally from any one these days.


If I were on the jury, I would have voted to acquit just as jury nullification of BS gun laws but had I not been a zeelot of the constitution, his ass would be bubba's play toy based on his own post and the evidence.

He has spent how much money defending himself? and now has no income at all nor freedom all could have been had for 13K RDIAS and a little paperwork. I bet 13K seems like a real cheap MG now

[ArevaloSOCOM]

Thanks for the info.

I agree with you.

[bmanka]

I disagree. Based on what I read, the full-auto condition was the result of a followdown condition. Followdowns have nothing to do with having an M-16 selector installed in an AR-15.

The manufacturer never installed a M16 selector, he did. He admitted to replacing all the trigger group components

The question should be "Did the gun have an autosear installed?" Without the autosear, an M-16 trigger group would do nothing but fire semi-auto except in the case of a malfunction.

On an M16 without a sear installed, the gun will SLAMFIRE when in the AUTO position. Since this a hammer follow condition, the Firing Pin does not always hit the primer hard enough to set it off for F/A operation.

This is not correct. A properly functioning AR-15 with an M-16 trigger group installed (less the autosear) will fire in semi-automatic mode only regardless of whether the selector switch is in the SEMI or FULL AUTO/BURST position. Slamfires can occur no matter what position your selector is in, including the SAFE position and have nothing to do with M-16 components.

A followdown and a slamfire are two different things and neither are caused by having a three position selector in an AR-15 will a full M-16 trigger group with or without an autosear.

Since the cause of the malfunction is a followdown condition, the better question is "What is causing the followdown to occur?" It is either the result of a malfunctioning disconnector or an intentional modification.

A followdown occurs when the disconnector prematurely disengages the sear when the hammer is in it's cocked position. Any of you bump-fire junkies that have installed triggers with minimal sear engagement have probably experienced numerous followdowns. Normally, a followdown results in a light primer strike without firing the cartridge. When this happens, you rack the bolt to reset the trigger and begin firing again. In a worst case scenario, the followdown would cause the cartridge to fire without the bolt being fully locked (which could cause catastrophic damage).

A slamfire is a condition where the firing pin (being free-floating in the AR-15) impacts the primer and causes a primer detonation solely as the result of the bolt's inertia as it moves into a locked position. To test this, put your AR-15 in it's SAFE position, lock the bold back, put in a loaded magazine and release the bolt. Eject the cartridge and you will see that the primer was dented by the firing pin. Get a thin enough primer and you may experience a slamfire on occasion. DISCLAIMER: OBSERVE ALL FIREARM SAFETY PRACTICES IF YOU TRY THIS

The point is that the cause of followdowns and slamfires have nothing to do with an M-16 trigger group installed in an AR-15 with or without an autosear installed.

I bet this guy had a DIAS hidden some where. Why else have a M16 selector?

How many of you have a lower receiver with full auto markings but a regular semi-auto trigger? If you do, then perhaps you could explain why. I think some people might like the idea of having a selector that rotates through three positions even if the third position does nothing different than the second.

CONCLUSION
This is all academic unless the gun did have an autosear installed, in which case I would admit the guy is screwed. Without an autosear installed and absent any specific modification to make the gun fire full auto, I would classify this as a malfunction. If you haven't ever tried installing and tuning trigger that allows you to set the overtravel and sear engagement, I'd suggest you try it before drawing a conclusion on this matter. Your bump fire or precision shooting rig could be easily fall under this ruling.

My guess is that the disconnector malfunctions causing the firing system to be unreliable. When the disconnector disengages inadvertently the sear does not successfully engage and the hammer follows the bolt down as it closes. When a followdown malfunction occurs, the hammers energy is insufficient to detonate a hardended primer, but on occasion is does have enough energy to detonate softer commercial primers. Even when it does, the firing system timing is so out of whack that the gun jams. This to me is a malfunction of a semi-auto system and not a properly functioning full auto system.

[Mongo]

I disagree. Based on what I read, the full-auto condition was the result of a followdown condition. Followdowns have nothing to do with having an M-16 selector installed in an AR-15.

The manufacturer never installed a M16 selector, he did. He admitted to replacing all the trigger group components

The question should be "Did the gun have an autosear installed?" Without the autosear, an M-16 trigger group would do nothing but fire semi-auto except in the case of a malfunction.

On an M16 without a sear installed, the gun will SLAMFIRE when in the AUTO position. Since this a hammer follow condition, the Firing Pin does not always hit the primer hard enough to set it off for F/A operation.

This is not correct. A properly functioning AR-15 with an M-16 trigger group installed (less the autosear) will fire in semi-automatic mode only regardless of whether the selector switch is in the SEMI or FULL AUTO/BURST position. Slamfires can occur no matter what position your selector is in, including the SAFE position and have nothing to do with M-16 components.

A followdown and a slamfire are two different things and neither are caused by having a three position selector in an AR-15 will a full M-16 trigger group with or without an autosear.

Since the cause of the malfunction is a followdown condition, the better question is "What is causing the followdown to occur?" It is either the result of a malfunctioning disconnector or an intentional modification.

A followdown occurs when the disconnector prematurely disengages the sear when the hammer is in it's cocked position. Any of you bump-fire junkies that have installed triggers with minimal sear engagement have probably experienced numerous followdowns. Normally, a followdown results in a light primer strike without firing the cartridge. When this happens, you rack the bolt to reset the trigger and begin firing again. In a worst case scenario, the followdown would cause the cartridge to fire without the bolt being fully locked (which could cause catastrophic damage).

A slamfire is a condition where the firing pin (being free-floating in the AR-15) impacts the primer and causes a primer detonation solely as the result of the bolt's inertia as it moves into a locked position. To test this, put your AR-15 in it's SAFE position, lock the bold back, put in a loaded magazine and release the bolt. Eject the cartridge and you will see that the primer was dented by the firing pin. Get a thin enough primer and you may experience a slamfire on occasion. DISCLAIMER: OBSERVE ALL FIREARM SAFETY PRACTICES IF YOU TRY THIS

The point is that the cause of followdowns and slamfires have nothing to do with an M-16 trigger group installed in an AR-15 with or without an autosear installed.

I bet this guy had a DIAS hidden some where. Why else have a M16 selector?

How many of you have a lower receiver with full auto markings but a regular semi-auto trigger? If you do, then perhaps you could explain why. I think some people might like the idea of having a selector that rotates through three positions even if the third position does nothing different than the second.

CONCLUSION
This is all academic unless the gun did have an autosear installed, in which case I would admit the guy is screwed. Without an autosear installed and absent any specific modification to make the gun fire full auto, I would classify this as a malfunction. If you haven't ever tried installing and tuning trigger that allows you to set the overtravel and sear engagement, I'd suggest you try it before drawing a conclusion on this matter. Your bump fire or precision shooting rig could be easily fall under this ruling.

My guess is that the disconnector malfunctions causing the firing system to be unreliable. When the disconnector disengages inadvertently the sear does not successfully engage and the hammer follows the bolt down as it closes. When a followdown malfunction occurs, the hammers energy is insufficient to detonate a hardended primer, but on occasion is does have enough energy to detonate softer commercial primers. Even when it does, the firing system timing is so out of whack that the gun jams. This to me is a malfunction of a semi-auto system and not a properly functioning full auto system.

The disconnector did not malifunction, it was held down by the M16 selector when set in the full auto position just like it is suppose to do. Having a full set of M16 parts (less the auto sear) in an AR15 has been determined to be a machine gun by ATF regulations since 1981. The aTF web site has this posted and it is well known. The reason, the hammer will follow and will fire much of the time. It is not safe but it will double or more with one trigger activations. No part in the gun was malifunctioning.

[bmanka]

Thanks for the info Mongo, now it's starting to make more sense. Plus, you cleared up a misunderstanding I had of how the selector / disconnector work with one another. This is why I love this site!

[ArevaloSOCOM]

We regret having to inform you that about a half hour ago we received news that on October 13, 2009 the Supreme Court denied David's petition for review of his conviction. We all had worked, hoped, and prayed for favorable action...

-Herb Titus (Olofson's Attorney)

[eric10mm]

So when does the shoelace come into play?

[Twinsen]

I bet he was innocent.

[Smalldog]

I wish he could turn around and sue the Fed's on the grounds that his Constitutional rights were violated.