Obama campaign organising against gun owners

[Alael]

An article here:
http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/22/obama ... un-owners/

[edteach]

I have heard this since he was elected. After three years of not even talking about guns now its he is coming for our guns because he is not coming for our guns. Its non sense and Alex Jones garbage.Obama is not trying to take our guns away. I have more rights than when Bush was president, Obama signed the law that allows a CCW holder to carry in national parks.
This is as stupid as the talk that the USSR is really alive and well and is only trying to lull us into a passive sleep and then they will strike? Really? It reminds me of the movie little big man where none of the Indians bothers Caroline and she kept saying they will rape me for sure tonight.

This is why I let my NRA membership go. This and things like Wayne Lapirre saying that Obama has a double secret agenda to take our guns away, and you can tell this because he is not coming to take our guns away, ahaaa proof that we are right. Man thats crazy talk and this guy belongs in a nut house not the head of the NRA.

[TROOPER]

Yeah, Fast-and-Furious had nothing to do with potentially undermining gun rights. And even if it did, it had nothing to do with the Obama administration.

[doubloon]

Yeah, Fast-and-Furious had nothing to do with potentially undermining gun rights. And even if it did, it had nothing to do with the Obama administration.

+1 I know Obama is inspiring my next vote for sure as well.

[Cap&Ball]

Obama is not trying to take our guns away. I have more rights than when Bush was president, Obama signed the law that allows a CCW holder to carry in national parks.

Most of that has been done at the state level and did not involve Obama in any way whatsoever. In fact, the only thing Obama HAS done is sign that law that allowed people to carry in parks, and you can't say that it's not impossible, let alone extremely likely that he did it just for good PR for the gun owners.

This is as stupid as the talk that the USSR is really alive and well and is only trying to lull us into a passive sleep and then they will strike? Really?

Well the USSR countries are still being run by members of the old communist party, such as Putin, and they still engage in quite a bit of espionage against us. I would say that the USSR is for all intensive purposes still alive if not in name, in the fact that there still are and will always be millions of marxists around the world trying to subvert their own and other countries and gain control. It still happens in places like Venezuela so I don't see why it couldn't theoretically happen in any other country.

And I've also never seen a U.S. President who has literally never accomplished anything in his life between graduating Harvard and winning the Presidency of the United States, appoint marxist extremists into powerful positions in the White house, and then ram sweeping legislation through Congress that is 1000+ pages, has to be passed in order to be read, and half of which seems to have nothing to do with what we are told it was for at all. I'm not going to name any names, but it would appear that there may be a few communist sleeper cells alive in the U.S. government (that is no exaggeration either).

This and things like Wayne Lapirre saying that Obama has a double secret agenda to take our guns away, and you can tell this because he is not coming to take our guns away, ahaaa proof that we are right.

Were you asleep when hurricane Katrina happened and they confiscated everyone's guns? They literally are trying to "take" our guns away in every sense of the word. How you came to the conclusion that they are NOT trying to take our guns away is beyond me, and I would love nothing more than to see this "proof." s--t, we know they're trying to because THEY PASSED A LAW OUTLAWING EVIL BLACK GUNS 17 YEARS AGO. Obama himself said that it was a scandal that the Federal Assault Weapons Ban was not reinstated, and that the same ban was not tough enough.

What the hell goes on in your head?

[edteach]

First off fast and furious was a failure of the government trying to stop the trade of illegal guns to Mexican drug lords. If it were not for the hands of the Fed being tied it would be much harder for illegal guns and straw man purchases to be done for these people, at the same time the NRA will not work with the fed to allow tracking of mass purchases of semi auto weapons. The NRA is a joke,
Second, the USSR is dead dude live in the now. LOL Really? If you buy this crap you are an Alex Jones conspiracy believer and there is little hope of you having any real critical thinking ability.
Third the guns that were taken during Katrina was done by local authority's, the same local police that was shooting mentally retarded people and others just for sport. LOCAL POLICE. so much for protect and serve, and even if it was the FED it would have been under BUSH the retard and the REPUBLICANS, don't you see how mixed up your rants are? And fourth that AWB you talk about was under Clinton and was supported by Bush one and two, and the great [not really] Reagan pushed for and supported the Brady law, and closed the open ended pool of automatic weapons making prices of legal transferable ones soar.

[Blaubart]

First off fast and furious was a failure of the government trying to stop the trade of illegal guns to Mexican drug lords.

Except for that little thing about the ATF actually using agents to buy the guns using tax payer money and selling those guns to the drug cartels themselves. Also keep in mind that all of this was happening while Obama and his fellow liberals were saying almost all of the guns being used in Mexico's drug wars that can be traced, were traced back to the US. Also keep in mind that this reasoning was being used to push anti-gun legislation. Also keep in mind that the people running this operation were not only aware that the guns were going to be used to kill people in Mexico's gun wars, they were actually looking forward to finding their guns at the crime scenes so they could say "Look, these guns are coming from the US!"

As far as conspiracy theories go, it is not very far fetched to believe that Obama not only knew about Gunrunner, but was instrumental in implementing it.

[driver6814]

You know the GOV realized they F'd up with fast and furious.

They should have done it like normal, and let Christians In Action transfer the guns

[Cap&Ball]

First off fast and furious was a failure of the government trying to stop the trade of illegal guns to Mexican drug lords.

Wrong. Fast and Furious was the Federal government selling illegal guns to Mexican drug lords. Refer to Blaubart's post.

If it were not for the hands of the Fed being tied it would be much harder for illegal guns and straw man purchases to be done for these people, at the same time the NRA will not work with the fed to allow tracking of mass purchases of semi auto weapons. The NRA is a joke,

The NRA has no authority over what the Federal government does whatsoever. They are a lobbying group, and they are not an entity in and of themselves. They are supported by the donations of Americans who recognize that if they sit back and choose not to protect their rights, others will take them away. If by having their hands tied you mean that they have to somewhat respect the rights of their fellow citizens and follow the constitution, then yes, the BATFE certainly has their hands tied. If they can't enforce the law without going into Gestapo mode, then either the laws they are trying to enforce are very intrusive or poorly written or they are very bad at police work and need to find new occupation.

There is still no confirmation on whether the guns that were sold to the cartel were full auto or semi auto. There is one report of a rocket launcher being involved also. You can't get those at gun shops in the U.S. Not that it matters when the U.S. military is GIVING military grade weapons to the Mexican government which sells them right to the cartels. This accounts for the majority of U.S. weapons in Mexico, and the U.S. weapons are alone just a fraction of all the guns in Mexico. So the BATFE keeping track of mass semi auto purchases will not do jack s--t my friend.

Second, the USSR is dead dude live in the now. LOL Really? If you buy this crap you are an Alex Jones conspiracy believer and there is little hope of you having any real critical thinking ability.

So you're telling me that when the USSR collapsed that all the marxists in the world vanished into thin air and disappeared? It sounds like you're the one who believes in conspiracy theories.

Third the guns that were taken during Katrina was done by local authority's, the same local police that was shooting mentally retarded people and others just for sport. LOCAL POLICE. so much for protect and serve,

Also wrong. The National Guard, U.S. Marshals, and almost every other federal outfit that was in and around New Orleans was engaging in gun confiscations that summer.

and even if it was the FED it would have been under BUSH the retard and the REPUBLICANS,

What is so special about Democrats and liberals that makes them immune to gross violations of others' human rights? I get the feeling that you must either be in high school or seriously delusional to believe this. Republicans and Democrats both have blatantly violated the Constitution in the past. Anyone who believes otherwise is a child and/or stupid.

don't you see how mixed up your rants are?

I see someone who needs to check their facts.

And fourth that AWB you talk about was under Clinton and was supported by Bush one and two, and the great [not really] Reagan pushed for and supported the Brady law, and closed the open ended pool of automatic weapons making prices of legal transferable ones soar.

So every U.S. President in the past 50 years has supported unconstitutional legislation in one form or another. How do you think that makes me feel about Obama? Like I said, Obama himself said that the fact that Bush did not renew the Assault Weapons Ban was a scandal. Whether he was President at the time it was initially passed is irrelevant because he has stated clearly that he not only support the bill, but that it doesn't go far enough in limiting what kinds of guns I can own. Why would he think any differently now that he is in the White House?

[edteach]

First off fast and furious was a failure of the government trying to stop the trade of illegal guns to Mexican drug lords.

Except for that little thing about the ATF actually using agents to buy the guns using tax payer money and selling those guns to the drug cartels themselves. Also keep in mind that all of this was happening while Obama and his fellow liberals were saying almost all of the guns being used in Mexico's drug wars that can be traced, were traced back to the US. Also keep in mind that this reasoning was being used to push anti-gun legislation. Also keep in mind that the people running this operation were not only aware that the guns were going to be used to kill people in Mexico's gun wars, they were actually looking forward to finding their guns at the crime scenes so they could say "Look, these guns are coming from the US!"

As far as conspiracy theories go, it is not very far fetched to believe that Obama not only knew about Gunrunner, but was instrumental in implementing it.

No one will say that this sting got out of hand, but its hardly the OA trying to take out guns. This is right there with Alex Jones and vaccines are gov. trying to kill us off. Really? OK scooter. Its also hardly new, the gov. has been putting in people under cover and mixing with the criminals to gain access to their methods and actions to bust them for years. Sometimes they even participate in the crimes to gain the trust of the criminals. How do you thing the FBI took down many in the MOB? Its hard to use facts with those who are set on believing that the Moon landings were staged, when people believe in stupid rants and psycho talk facts are the first thing thrown to the road side.

[doubloon]

...
What the hell goes on in your head?

Whatever the socialist media machine puts in there.

[Cap&Ball]

No one will say that this sting got out of hand, but its hardly the OA trying to take out guns. This is right there with Alex Jones and vaccines are gov. trying to kill us off. Really? OK scooter. Its also hardly new, the gov. has been putting in people under cover and mixing with the criminals to gain access to their methods and actions to bust them for years. Sometimes they even participate in the crimes to gain the trust of the criminals. How do you thing the FBI took down many in the MOB? Its hard to use facts with those who are set on believing that the Moon landings were staged, when people believe in stupid rants and psycho talk facts are the first thing thrown to the road side.

It's almost like you deliberately ignored important parts of his post...

[edteach]

Wrong. Fast and Furious was the Federal government selling illegal guns to Mexican drug lords. Refer to Blaubart's post.
[[[So they could track the system and bust them. If you really think that the gov was just supplying guns to the criminals of Mexico logic and facts will not help you because you are an Alex Jones Glenn Beck nut. ]]]
Quote:
If it were not for the hands of the Fed being tied it would be much harder for illegal guns and straw man purchases to be done for these people, at the same time the NRA will not work with the fed to allow tracking of mass purchases of semi auto weapons. The NRA is a joke,


The NRA has no authority over what the Federal government does whatsoever.

[[[ Lie, the lobbying you admit to is to affect the policy’s enacted by the government. So you lie or contradict your own statement.]]]


They are a lobbying group, and they are not an entity in and of themselves.

[[[ What? They lobby there for they exist and are an entity. Look up word please. ]]]

They are supported by the donations of Americans who recognize that if they sit back and choose not to protect their rights, others will take them away.
[[[Like the republicans disenfranchising many of their voting rights?]]]

If by having their hands tied you mean that they have to somewhat respect the rights of their fellow citizens and follow the constitution, then yes, the BATFE certainly has their hands tied. If they can't enforce the law without going into Gestapo mode, then either the laws they are trying to enforce are very intrusive or poorly written or they are very bad at police work and need to find new occupation.
[[[ A false choice, its not either we have freedom or a Gestapo, its does the government have the right under the constitution to regulate guns. The supreme court said yes they do. So by saying that its illegal to have a fully auto or its restricted is still legal under the constitution. ]]]

There is still no confirmation on whether the guns that were sold to the cartel were full auto or semi auto. There is one report of a rocket launcher being involved also. You can't get those at gun shops in the U.S. Not that it matters when the U.S. military is GIVING military grade weapons to the Mexican government which sells them right to the cartels. This accounts for the majority of U.S. weapons in Mexico, and the U.S. weapons are alone just a fraction of all the guns in Mexico. So the BATFE keeping track of mass semi auto purchases will not do jack s--t my friend.
[[[ First off your quoting anecdotal hear say and it means nothing, second yes the gov. tracking large sales of guns the type of which are used in crime is of value. You think that if someone buys a semi load of ANFO, oh well its their right to have privacy? Your insane. Also it was people like you who said that the Bush admin. Who got warrantless wire taps was fine because if you were doing nothing wrong. BS I am sure you think that profiling people because of the color of their skin or religion is also fine. ]]]
Quote:
Second, the USSR is dead dude live in the now. LOL Really? If you buy this crap you are an Alex Jones conspiracy believer and there is little hope of you having any real critical thinking ability.


So you're telling me that when the USSR collapsed that all the marxists in the world vanished into thin air and disappeared? It sounds like you're the one who believes in conspiracy theories.
[[[ Facts seem to escape you. I never said the all communism was dead and gone. I said that the USSR is gone and its not a plot to over throw the USA. So if you feel your argument so weak as to have a need to try a red herring that’s fine but its total BS. ]]]
Quote:
Third the guns that were taken during Katrina was done by local authority's, the same local police that was shooting mentally retarded people and others just for sport. LOCAL POLICE. so much for protect and serve,


Also wrong. The National Guard
[[[,National guard not federal government, state run not federal and it was not the NG that went to jail for shooting people it was the NOLA and other state PF, I have not read any US Marshals who shot mentally retarded people. ]]]
U.S. Marshals, and almost every other federal outfit that was in and around New Orleans was engaging in gun confiscations that summer.
Quote:
and even if it was the FED it would have been under BUSH the retard and the REPUBLICANS,


What is so special about Democrats and liberals that makes them immune to gross violations of others' human rights? I get the feeling that you must either be in high school or seriously delusional to believe this. Republicans and Democrats both have blatantly violated the Constitution in the past. Anyone who believes otherwise is a child and/or stupid.
[[[ First to throw an insult shows how you must feel you have such a weak argument that you need to try to divert attention away from the fact. Second I never said that Democrats were perfect and have never violated the rights of other Americans, another red herring. Third only a person who feels emotion that they can not control would say they knew me and who I was and make such a silly attack. ]]]
Quote:
don't you see how mixed up your rants are?


I see someone who needs to check their facts
.[[[ Dismissed because its just a rant not any thing of intellectual use. ]]]
Quote:
And fourth that AWB you talk about was under Clinton and was supported by Bush one and two, and the great [not really] Reagan pushed for and supported the Brady law, and closed the open ended pool of automatic weapons making prices of legal transferable ones soar.


So every U.S. President in the past 50 years has supported unconstitutional legislation in one form or another. How do you think that makes me feel about Obama? Like I said, Obama himself said that the fact that Bush did not renew the Assault Weapons Ban was a scandal

l[[[.Bush or W said he wanted to renew it but the congress did not send it to him to sign. Do you think that a president can just declare a law?]]]

Whether he was President at the time it was initially passed is irrelevant because he has stated clearly that he not only support the bill, but that it doesn't go far enough in limiting what kinds of guns I can own. Why would he think any differently now that he is in the White House?

[[[ Ahhh because actions speak louder than words?]]]

[TROOPER]

You've got to do better with the quote feature, that post was very difficult to read, because it wasn't clear what you were trying to say.

Also, I'm a military linguist, and I know for a fact that when I was in the language school, they were minting up scores of fresh new Russian linguists to deal with that sector of the world. That doesn't mean the USSR is the 'great evil' it once was, or that it will be again in the future. However, it is not 'dead and gone'.

[Blaubart]

No one will say that this sting got out of hand, but its hardly the OA trying to take out guns.

I assume you meant to say "No one will say that this sting didn't get out of hand..." but the part I disagree with is the second part "but its hardly the OA trying to take [our] guns."

By "OA" I assume you mean the "Obama Administration", in which Eric Holder holds a cabinet level position. He was nominated by President Obama. He reports to President Obama. He probably meets with Obama weekly, if not daily. If the intent of Gunrunner/Fast & Furious was about manufacturing a problem that doesn't exist in an attempt to gain support for passing anti-gun legislation, how is this not about the Obama Administration?

At this point, it was either that or GROSS incompetence on the part of Eric Holder and President Obama. Anyone who expects me to believe it was incompetence must be able to explain what the motivation was for the people under Eric Holder to do something like this without his knowledge. Because you don't just do something like this for shits and grins.

[doubloon]

No one will say that this sting got out of hand, but its hardly the OA trying to take out guns. This is right there with Alex Jones and vaccines are gov. trying to kill us off. Really? OK scooter. Its also hardly new, the gov. has been putting in people under cover and mixing with the criminals to gain access to their methods and actions to bust them for years. Sometimes they even participate in the crimes to gain the trust of the criminals. How do you thing the FBI took down many in the MOB? Its hard to use facts with those who are set on believing that the Moon landings were staged, when people believe in stupid rants and psycho talk facts are the first thing thrown to the road side.

It's almost like you deliberately ignored important parts of his post...

That's his "technique" ... misdirect, avoid, overstate, dismiss, derail ... slight of hand arguments.

[Alael]

An article from Gun Owners of America:

Wednesday, 19 October 2011 11:21 Written by Tim Macy

The Cost of an Obama Reelection:
The Second Amendment is Gone, an anti-gun Supreme Court and the Heller case reversed

It is easy for the Second Amendment community to be lulled into a false sense of security about Barack Obama.

He has viciously attacked Second Amendment rights, but he has done so quietly, behind-the-scenes, and by regulation and BATFE abuses.

So does it really matter whether he is reelected a year from next month?

The answer is “yes.” And there are a couple of paramount reasons.

The first is that Obama, in order to avoid a guaranteed defeat in 2012, has thus far kept his powder dry on gun-related legislation (but not anti-gun regulations and rhetoric). Thus, following the Tucson shooting of Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, he gave one speech, but largely bit his lip and retreated into his den.

But when reelection is no longer a consideration, gun licensing, gun bans, and criminalization of gun ownership will once again come to the fore.

These proposals will be implemented by more draconian regulations (which Congress will no longer have the votes to defund), and they will be tacked onto must-pass legislative vehicles.

Sadly, Republican leaders Mitch McConnell and John Boehner have shown no stomach for taking the blame for shutting down the government in order to protect Second Amendment rights. Of course, one needs to understand that “shutting down the government” really means scaling back its operations to about 60% of full capacity, which is the amount that comes in from taxes every month.

But there is another equally important reason why Obama's reelection could be the death of the Second Amendment as we know it: the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court is currently viewed as consisting of four conservatives (Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, and Alita), four raving liberals (Ginsburg, Sotomayor, Kagan, and Breyer), and one sort-of-conservative swing vote (Kennedy).

Of the conservatives, Kennedy and Scalia were born in 1936, meaning that they turn 75 this year. And Thomas turns 63.

There is a significant chance that one of these three vacancies will come open in the next five years. And, if the vacancy is filled by Obama, that will create a 5-man majority of anti-gun liberals on the Supreme Court.

The first thing that means is that the Heller case -- recognizing that the Second Amendment is an individual right -- will be reversed. In fact, after stating under oath before the Senate that she had no opinion on the scope of the Second Amendment, Sotomayor wasted no time opining (in a decision) that she believed Heller was bad law.

Liberals, by and large, don't defer to stare decisis -- a judicial doctrine which protects already-decided issues, even if you don't like them. And it would be a mistake to assume that the Supreme Court wouldn’t rapidly declare the Second Amendment to apply only to militias.

Ditto, the McDonald case, recognizing that the Second Amendment is applicable to the states.

Finally, the Supreme Court is largely expected to overturn, by a 5-4 margin, ObamaCare’s mandate that virtually every person in America be required to purchase politically correct, gold-plated, Obama-mandated health insurance, at a cost of $5,000-$25,000 per person or family. If Obama appoints another Supreme Court justice, such a decision could very easily be reversed, thus reinstating ObamaCare’s takeover of decisions concerning your family’s health.

When Heller was handed down, I pointed out that the courts were no panacea to legislative vigilance. And, within the past week, a key federal court refused to use Heller to overturn the District of Columbia's semi-automatic ban. (Interestingly, the “pro-gun” House could repeal the ban with one sentence in its upcoming “continuing resolution.”)

But the symbolic and moral impact of an illegitimate Supreme Court trying, corruptly, to define the Second Amendment out of existence cannot be overstated.

So think about it … because elections do have consequences. And we will have to live with the results of the upcoming election (for better or worse) for a long time.

That’s why GOA is going to make Barack Obama's life miserable, until his sordid administration comes to a sorry end in January 2013. And we're going to hound “Dirty Harry” Reid until he is driven out of his Majority Leader's office.

And we're going to exorcise Nancy Pelosi, as we force gun votes which drive her corrupt gaggle of cronies even further into the minority.

But we need your help. We need you to stand with Gun Owners of America. Go to http://gunowners.org/store/new-membership and sign up with the only gun organization whose PAC has been credited with helping to defeat scores of congressional Blue Dog Democrats in 2010.

Join Gun Owners of America today!

Paid for by Gun Owners of America, Inc. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.

http://gunowners.org/the-cost-of-an-oba ... ection.htm

© 2008 by Gun Owners of America
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 - Phone: 703-321-8585 - Fax: 703-321-8408
The information contained herein may be disseminated for non-commercial purposes as long as credit is given to GOA.

[montanabound]

Between Operation Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious, allowing ops like these to be conducted without approval higher up the food chain than Regional Directors is just unbelieveable. About as unbelieveable as President Clinton or Janet Reno having no knowledge that US military personnel and armor were used against US citizens in Waco,Tx.
With the UN pushing the Small Arms Treaty and the media initially reporting the firearms coming from dealers in the border staes with lax gun laws as opposed to NY or CA, we can only take refuge in the fact that if it weren't for lower level ATF agents,FFLs and the following Senate investigation, God Knows what might of happened if this wasn't exposed.