So I was going to order a AR15/M16 Commando Upper, 11-1/2", .22lr from Model 1 Sales for my SBR and before they would ship it they either wanted me to fax a copy of my Form 4 of have my FFL/SOT fax their license. Is it just me or are they smoking CRACK by requiring a purchaser to provide this documentation?
Anyone know of a customer friendly business that sells shorty .22lr uppers for a reasonable price? I just need the upper sans bcg & mag.
Needless to say I will probably just build my own...for cheaper.
Model 1 Sales requirement??
- MCASSgt New River
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Model 1 Sales requirement??
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- Bendersquint
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Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
Yes, they do require proof, in order to buy a 9mm barrel years ago I had to fax them my FFL/SOT.MCASSgt New River wrote:So I was going to order a AR15/M16 Commando Upper, 11-1/2", .22lr from Model 1 Sales for my SBR and before they would ship it they either wanted me to fax a copy of my Form 4 of have my FFL/SOT fax their license. Is it just me or are they smoking CRACK by requiring a purchaser to provide this documentation?
Anyone know of a customer friendly business that sells shorty .22lr uppers for a reasonable price? I just need the upper sans bcg & mag.
Needless to say I will probably just build my own...for cheaper.
Its completely reasonable that anyone selling a product can request anything they want for proof to be sure they aren't aiding in something illegal.
Its entirely up to you if you want to comply and give them your business or not, CMMG does not carry this requirement as far as I know.
- MCASSgt New River
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Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
I understand ANY business can require whatever they want in a sale but if I remember correctly #1 the F4 is only required to be shown to ATF Officers and #2 if I had a pistol lower what am I supposed to show them? Maybe I'm just ranting but I see no badge being flashed....nor my cash.Bendersquint wrote:Yes, they do require proof, in order to buy a 9mm barrel years ago I had to fax them my FFL/SOT.MCASSgt New River wrote:So I was going to order a AR15/M16 Commando Upper, 11-1/2", .22lr from Model 1 Sales for my SBR and before they would ship it they either wanted me to fax a copy of my Form 4 of have my FFL/SOT fax their license. Is it just me or are they smoking CRACK by requiring a purchaser to provide this documentation?
Anyone know of a customer friendly business that sells shorty .22lr uppers for a reasonable price? I just need the upper sans bcg & mag.
Needless to say I will probably just build my own...for cheaper.
Its completely reasonable that anyone selling a product can request anything they want for proof to be sure they aren't aiding in something illegal.
Its entirely up to you if you want to comply and give them your business or not, CMMG does not carry this requirement as far as I know.
Last edited by MCASSgt New River on Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America' for an amount of 'up to and including their life.'-That is Honor
Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
Did you say they were for a pistol? Thats how they are listed on their site.
- MCASSgt New River
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Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
They have pistol uppers and Commando "M16" uppers...I wanted the slightly longer 11-1/2" M16 upper for my SBR.robpiat wrote:Did you say they were for a pistol? Thats how they are listed on their site.
A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America' for an amount of 'up to and including their life.'-That is Honor
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Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
If its for a pistol you are required to show proof that the AR was transferred as a pistol.
Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
Guess I am missing the difference...They show an 11.5" on the pistol page too and it looks identical.MCASSgt New River wrote:They have pistol uppers and Commando "M16" uppers...I wanted the slightly longer 11-1/2" M16 upper for my SBR.robpiat wrote:Did you say they were for a pistol? Thats how they are listed on their site.
Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
That is a argument from the left! Let us demand x to prevent Y. Unless the law requires them to ask as per there licensing requirements I say screw em. If you want to my paperwork you better have a legal requirement to do so otherwise I will be shopping elsewhere. It is NOT the sellers responsibility to ensure you are using the item your buying for a legal use. The concept is stupid as if you want one and you have a sbr or mg give them a copy of proof you do own the item what prevents you form putting it in a non sbr lower! They do not know what your doing with it. Kind of like YHM only selling short barrel to dealers but most dealers will sell them to whomever have money as they have not legal requirement to check.Bendersquint wrote: Its completely reasonable that anyone selling a product can request anything they want for proof to be sure they aren't aiding in something illegal.
The gas station does not require me to give them the paperwork on my mower when I buy a can if gas. How do they know I am not setting a house on fire?
This nanny s--t makes me sick. From the left I expect it. From fellow gun owners not so much. That ok though plenty of other to buy from...
"If you carry a gun, people call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid about?"
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Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
1 - Yes you are right the only FEDERAL requirement is that it be provided to ATF and IRS agents to prove that you legally own it.MCASSgt New River wrote: I understand ANY business can require whatever they want in a sale but if I remember correctly #1 the F4 is only required to be shown to ATF Officers and #2 if I had a pistol lower what am I supposed to show them? Maybe I'm just ranting but I see no badge being flashed....nor my cash.
There is nothing out there saying that noone besides the ATF or IRS can request your form in order to complete a transaction.
We required a copy of your drivers license to use our services for quite awhile and that was because the ATF harped on us about that, when they backed off and said it wasn't "really" needed just helped the proof of ownership we stopped requiring it.
How do you know there isn't some backstory into that requirement?
2 - If you had a pistol lower then you can show them a receipt which they require because people will call and say they have a pistol in order to get around their rules. I know for a fact that they won't accept a receipt for a stripped AR15 lower because you can't prove that it is a pistol and not a rifle.
They are protecting themselves, albeit I think its a bit too far, a signed statement would suffice in the legal arena but then again it ain't my company.
- MCASSgt New River
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Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
I guess I'm just ranting. I don't think it is any of their business what firearms I have any what is or isn't in the NFA Registry.
Just my PO'd .02 and I'll be quiet now.
Just my PO'd .02 and I'll be quiet now.
A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America' for an amount of 'up to and including their life.'-That is Honor
- Bendersquint
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Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
Anyone can request anything, they aren't violating any laws in the request.rogerme wrote:That is a argument from the left! Let us demand x to prevent Y. Unless the law requires them to ask as per there licensing requirements I say screw em. If you want to my paperwork you better have a legal requirement to do so otherwise I will be shopping elsewhere. It is NOT the sellers responsibility to ensure you are using the item your buying for a legal use. The concept is stupid as if you want one and you have a sbr or mg give them a copy of proof you do own the item what prevents you form putting it in a non sbr lower! They do not know what your doing with it. Kind of like YHM only selling short barrel to dealers but most dealers will sell them to whomever have money as they have not legal requirement to check.Bendersquint wrote: Its completely reasonable that anyone selling a product can request anything they want for proof to be sure they aren't aiding in something illegal.
The gas station does not require me to give them the paperwork on my mower when I buy a can if gas. How do they know I am not setting a house on fire?
This nanny s--t makes me sick. From the left I expect it. From fellow gun owners not so much. That ok though plenty of other to buy from...
I totally agree its not the sellers responsibility to make sure YOU are within the law, whether or not their company has a policy or not is another story and entirely up to that company. I understand why they have the requirement due to their past. Noone says you have to buy from them.
If the gas station said you can't fill up anything but gas tanks mounted to engines and no containers, you either comply or go to the next gas station. You can always increase requirements you can not lax them.
They are sticking their nose into business they don't need to but just because they are in the gun community you can't expect to not see this type activity.
2 words..... BILL RUGER.
- WasDustyJacket
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Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
Interesting.
When I bought my LAR-9 AR pistol from my local gun store, the only receipt was a cash register receipt.
Just listed the item type (ammo, firearm, etc) and the price.
No pistol, rifle, etc.......
Other than a photo, I have nothing to prove it is a pistol.
When I bought my LAR-9 AR pistol from my local gun store, the only receipt was a cash register receipt.
Just listed the item type (ammo, firearm, etc) and the price.
No pistol, rifle, etc.......
Other than a photo, I have nothing to prove it is a pistol.
Shoot softly, and carry a big clip.
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Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
They wouldn't sell you parts then.DustyJacket wrote:Interesting.
When I bought my LAR-9 AR pistol from my local gun store, the only receipt was a cash register receipt.
Just listed the item type (ammo, firearm, etc) and the price.
No pistol, rifle, etc.......
Other than a photo, I have nothing to prove it is a pistol.
Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
What did they do that could govern them into making this stipulation? I wasn't aware they even had it until this thread...I won't be giving them any of my money. They have always struck me as being the Walmart of the gun community anyway.Bendersquint wrote: I understand why they have the requirement due to their past.
Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
Interesting. What kind of proof would they want. I guess you could ask the FFL to get a copy of the 4473 or you could take a pic of it when you fill it out.Bendersquint wrote:If its for a pistol you are required to show proof that the AR was transferred as a pistol.
If you are buying the upper because you are making a pistol from a lower then this type of proof isnt possible.
M1S can have whatever company policy they want. They picked a rather dumb one IMO.
Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
there are countless other vendors that do not impose this sort of invasive policy, you can buy from any of them. Model 1 sales has a pretty poor reputation for product quality so it's likely you're better off not patronizing them if you're actually going to put any serious round count through your rifle. BCM has a huge selection of NFA/Pistol length uppers and to my knowledge does not demand any unnecessary paperwork from you to "prove" that you're not a criminal.MCASSgt New River wrote:So I was going to order a AR15/M16 Commando Upper, 11-1/2", .22lr from Model 1 Sales for my SBR and before they would ship it they either wanted me to fax a copy of my Form 4 of have my FFL/SOT fax their license
Re: Model 1 Sales requirement??
All the talk is fine but the easy way to do it is spend your money elsewhere. We ( the firearm folks ) take a lot of s--t. I can ignore the left and there bs but when it comes form our own side I will simply make it known I will just spend my money elsewhere. If I am buying anything that does not require my papers then I am not showing them. You want to see my dl for parts or my tax forms then I will not be showing you green or plastic.
The only Issue I have had was being told that the shop I was at could not get me a M-16 hammer because they where illegal to sell. Even though they sell m16 parts kits with all the m16 parts sans lower. I said fine np pointed out there hypocrisy on the matter and have not spent a dime there from then on. I used to buy allot of 308 and 5.56 ammo and a few firearms there as I like to shop local when I can but they do not want my money there are others that do.
The only Issue I have had was being told that the shop I was at could not get me a M-16 hammer because they where illegal to sell. Even though they sell m16 parts kits with all the m16 parts sans lower. I said fine np pointed out there hypocrisy on the matter and have not spent a dime there from then on. I used to buy allot of 308 and 5.56 ammo and a few firearms there as I like to shop local when I can but they do not want my money there are others that do.
"If you carry a gun, people call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid about?"
Clint Smith
Clint Smith