School me on air rifle silencers

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw

User avatar
stevejobs
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2144
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:37 pm
Location: Oregon

School me on air rifle silencers

Post by stevejobs »

What are some top brands? What are the laws in the USA (Oregon). As quiet as a suppressed subsonic .22LR? Thanks.
User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11897
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:02 pm
Location: Houston-ish

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by doubloon »

With the Marauder the only thing you will hear is the hammer drop and the spring pinging when pushing a 10+gr .177 caliber pellet at ~950 fps.

The first time I shot mine I thought it was broke or I did something wrong. I had to check the barrel and make sure a pellet was missing from the magazine to convince myself something actually happened. Then I pointed someplace there would be no doubt if a pellet came out of the barrel or not and the giggles started as soon as I pulled the trigger. :)

I can't say I know the specifics of all the laws but the internals on the Marauder are a stack of simple plastic cups and the whole shroud can be taken apart and removed for cleaning, even on the .22 caliber.

I assume there's something about the construction, the fact that it's made to fit like an integral that makes is legal without a $200 stamp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
User avatar
stevejobs
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2144
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:37 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by stevejobs »

Cool. What rifle do you have? I think this one might be overkill. I need something for rodents, chirpers, and what not. How dirty does an air rifle get? I've never owned one, what are the basics? Thanks.
User avatar
HILMAN76
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 207
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:58 am

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by HILMAN76 »

stevejobs wrote:Cool. What rifle do you have? I think this one might be overkill. I need something for rodents, chirpers, and what not. How dirty does an air rifle get? I've never owned one, what are the basics? Thanks.

PLEASE do not buy that at Midway, shop at Pyramid Air, it will save ya' money on the rifle and shipping..:cool:
http://www.pyramydair.com/
http://www.pyramydair.com/p/Benjamin-Ma ... ifle.shtml
Coupon code # http://www.retailmenot.com/view/pyramydair.com
If ya' cant dazzle'em with brilliance, baffle'em with bullshit! 8)
User avatar
stevejobs
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2144
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:37 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by stevejobs »

Thanks for the coupon. I actually think I'm going to get the .22 version because this review said it was a lot quieter. I don't need 50 yards, I've got a .300BLK rifle for that. As far as maintnence, if all I have to do is run a snake down the bore and lube an o-ring, I'll be completey stoked. Well, back to my youtube research. :D
User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11897
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:02 pm
Location: Houston-ish

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by doubloon »

That's the rifle I was talking about in .177, the Marauder.

I have that and a few others. FWIW the Beeman R9 is a hard hitter and pretty quiet in it's own right. It will hustle a 8.5gr .177 down field at ~925 fps and is still quieter than a suppressed .22lr. Because of the spring mechanism it sounds much louder from the shooter perspective but still much quieter than a .22lr suppressed.

The advantage of the R9 over the Marauder is no pump or tank to carry around, the advantage of the Marauder over the R9 is it's ready to go after simply cycling the bolt, no cocking or pumping.

Depending on what you're trying to accomplish they are both more than quiet enough for most any purpose, the main differences are readiness to fire and portability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
User avatar
HILMAN76
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 207
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:58 am

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by HILMAN76 »

Check these websites out for "air moderators", no NFA stuff required, all 100% legal. You can buy an average springer or Co2 Pellet rifle and add a moderator, CHEAP.:cool:

http://www.tko22.com/ They call it the lead dust collector,LDC.

http://www.mountainaircustomairguns.com/index.htm its under accessories.
If ya' cant dazzle'em with brilliance, baffle'em with bullshit! 8)
User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11897
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:02 pm
Location: Houston-ish

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by doubloon »

HILMAN76 wrote:... no NFA stuff required, all 100% legal. ...
YMMV ...

http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/silencers/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
User avatar
HILMAN76
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 207
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:58 am

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by HILMAN76 »

doubloon wrote:
HILMAN76 wrote:... no NFA stuff required, all 100% legal. ...
YMMV ...

http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/silencers/


:shock: :shock: I retract my 100% legal statement :lol:
If ya' cant dazzle'em with brilliance, baffle'em with bullshit! 8)
Fallschirmjäger
Silent Operator
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:52 am
Location: Central Ohio

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by Fallschirmjäger »

Nah, I don't buy that. Let's look at the actual definition as per the ATF and 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(24):

"(24) The terms ``firearm silencer'' and ``firearm muffler'' mean any
device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable
firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and
intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or
firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or
fabrication."

So let's treat this like eating an elephant; one bite at a time:

The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler”:
1) Any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm,
2) Any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler,
3) Any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Points two and three of those criteria point to the fact that the device is intended for use with a firearm. Point one states that the device is "for" a firearm, which could cover an incident when something not designed for a firearm is used to suppress a firearm. However, until that threshold is crossed, by the legal definition, a device not intended to be used on a firearm is not an NFA item.

I know there have been cases where air rifle suppressors have been confiscated and tested by the ATF and deemed silencers because they attached them to a firearm and it indeed suppressed the report. However, the ATF specifically used that device in a manner for which the device was not designed, so THEY made it a silencer, not the person who possessed it. This would be the same as the ATF confiscating a plastic coke bottle, putting it on a 22 short, and saying it suppressed the sound; does that make plastic bottles silencers? No, because they were not designed to do that.

The best way to get around this issue is for airgun silencer manufacturers to simply engrave "For Airgun Use Only!" on each silencer, as Weihrauch does. That way, it's explicit that the device was not for, or intended for, firearms.
Last edited by Fallschirmjäger on Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11897
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:02 pm
Location: Houston-ish

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by doubloon »

Fallschirmjäger wrote:...
Points two and three of those criteria point to the fact that the device is intended for use with a firearm. Point one states that the device is "for" a firearm, which could cover an incident when something not designed for a firearm is used to suppress a firearm. However, until that threshold is crossed, by the legal definition, a device not intended to be used on a firearm is not an NFA item.
...
The best way to get around this issue is for airgun silencer manufacturers to simply engrave "For Airgun Use Only!" on each silencer, as Weihrauch does. That way, it's explicit that the device was not for, or intended for, firearms.
So if I have Brooks build me a suppressor capable of being used on anything up to a .308 and have him simply engrave it with "For Airgun Use Only!" I should be O.K.? :roll:

I think you need to read that paragraph again very carefully.

There is no "intended" in that first bit. "The terms ``firearm silencer'' and ``firearm muffler'' mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm,"

The "intended" bit doesn't come into play until you start talking about the parts and I can guarantee it will be the ATF, not you, deciding the "for" and the "intent".

JMO, YMMV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
Fallschirmjäger
Silent Operator
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:52 am
Location: Central Ohio

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by Fallschirmjäger »

Hey, roll your eyes as much as you like, but per the verbage, and per the interpretation any prudent person would make, if you, in your example, built a device that could withstand .308 pressures, engraved it as "airgun use only", and never installed it on anything but an airgun, explain to me how that is "Any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm." That is a device that CAN do that, but it is not FOR that purpose, and unless you are using it in a "manner for which it is not intended", it would be completely legal by the ATF's own definition. Again, if the ATF installs it on a rifle to test it, they're using it for a purpose other than what it was intended for.

I know there has been one case where someone has gotten jail time from this, but I believe there were extenuating circumstances there. Not trying to play s--t-house lawyer here, but I'm not going to live in fear of the law when I abide by the laws as they are written...
User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11897
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:02 pm
Location: Houston-ish

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by doubloon »

Don't get your panties in a wad.

Sure, it's still the U.S. of A. and you're innocent until proven guilty, blah blah, yada yada.

If you want to be the guy spending money on lawyers, standing in court explaining to the judge "Yes your honor it *could* be used to silence a firearm but that's not what I bought it for ..." then just keep us updated on how that turns out for you.

Notice it doesn't say anywhere that the ATF tested the "intent" of the device before determining it was a silencer, only that they tested the design and function.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nationa ... uppressers
Q: Are Paintball and/or Airgun Sound Suppressers NFA firearms?

The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be, by nature of their design and function, firearm silencers. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from ATF and pay the required tax. See also “What are the required transfer procedures for an individual who is not qualified as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer of NFA firearms?” and “How does an individual obtain authorization to make an NFA firearm?” for application details.

If you have any further questions as to the classification of a paintball or airgun silencer, please send a written request to ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch.

[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a), 27 CFR 479.11]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
Fallschirmjäger
Silent Operator
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:52 am
Location: Central Ohio

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by Fallschirmjäger »

Thanks for the additional info, but again, by the legal definition, the ATF itself is incorrect; if they have attached a device that is not designed for firearms to a firearm, they have then repurposed that device a firearms silencer. Again, I think the fact here is most folks are concerned enough about how our gov't makes up and then interprets their own laws that they don't want to mess with this, but if this were really true, you'd have the ATF throwing a lot of folks in the clink for either possessing or manufacturing airgun suppressors, as it's not too hard to find them for sale on most airgun forums.

Regarding your panties in a wad comment, if you can't take someone calling you on adding a stupid emoticon in response to a posting, don't add them; generally online forums would be much more civil without the associated keyboard commando sarcasm...
User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11897
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:02 pm
Location: Houston-ish

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by doubloon »

Why not stick to facts instead of making up your own statistics and drawing conclusions like "if it were really illegal more people would be convicted". <insert rolling eyes here>.

There's already been a ruling on this by the ATF and if your "idea" actually had a chance of working as defense against prosecution then we should be able to manufacture and buy fully functional machines guns stamped with "Just for looking at. Do not fire." The idea of a manufacturer or a buyer being able to avoid prosecution by simply stamping a removable silencer with a disclaimer that it should only be used only for airguns is ludicrous and deserves more than just an emoticon of rolling eyes.

You "calling me out" over an emoticon doesn't even register so don't sweat it, I just didn't want you to go throwing yourself out of a plane over an emoticon.

Please find below a link to the document from the ATF containing the ruling on the difference between a silencer permanently attached to an airgun and a removable silencer stamped with "for airgun use only".

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/ ... 2005-4.pdf
Held, a device for an unregulated paintball gun, having a permanently
affixed, integral ported barrel and other components, that functions to reduce the
report of the paintball gun is not a “firearm silencer” or “firearm muffler” as defined,
as the device is not one for diminishing the report of a portable firearm.

Held further, removal of the permanently affixed ported barrel and other
components from a paintball gun is a “making” of a silencer under the GCA and
NFA that requires advance approval from ATF.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
Fallschirmjäger
Silent Operator
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:52 am
Location: Central Ohio

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by Fallschirmjäger »

To be honest, after looking at your signature, your avatar, and reading your sarcasm-laden replies, it's apparent that trying to make you understand my point is akin to casting pearls before swine, but I'll try one last time. I don't know where you get that I've offered statistics or drawn conclusions, but I have made the undeniable point that there is a cottage industry here in the US around the airgun market that manufactures and openly markets both suppressors and shrouds that would easily fit within your supplied interpretation of the ATF's rules, and therefore be NFA items and require the tax stamp, etc... However, these folks continue to manufacture them and sell them, in plain view, and in established businesses as well. These aren't two or three people, and if you follow airguns, you know just what I'm talking about. But then again, if you took more interest in the English language and understood how words go together to make sentences and convey meaning, this would all be easier for you to understand.

I'm sure when you read the 2nd Amendment you don't come away with the feeling that only the Army and National Guard have the right to bear arms. The reason you don't is because you understand the intent of what was written, regardless of how odd the structure is. By that same token, the sentence "Any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm" should be pretty clear that the intent covers devices FOR (as is stated, FOR) a firearm.

Now you can be cute and be a Billy and say "Yeah, well what if somebody makes a .50 suppressor and puts 'For Airguns Only' on it, does that make it legal <yuck yuck>", but that's just it, you being a smart-ass Billy. Manufacturing an airgun suppressor that doesn't even survive one shot through a firearm intact should make it pretty clear it was not a "device for a portable firearm," yet the ATF has made the argument that because it reduced the report by 1 decibel it was a firearms suppressor. Does that even come close to the intent of the law, or even what is written? It should be pretty clear that it's not a "device for a portable firearm." However, with your sarcastic example of a device that could withstand .308 pressures wearing the "Airgun" disclaimer being legal, by definition of the law it would indeed be legal. It's usage in contrast with it's intended usage would be your crime, just like when products wear the warning "It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling." Wouldn't that actually be pretty accurate? While you have over-manufactured your airgun suppressor, if it's used on a firearm, despite your engraved disclaimer, it sure as hell is a violation of a Federal law, right? Now in the case of an airgun suppressor that basically explodes on the end of a firearm, wouldn't that be pretty clear it wasn't being used in a manner consistent with it's labeling, or manufacture?

You don't need to be a legal expert to see that the ATF is overreaching with the definition of a suppressor when they make the determination that a paintball suppressor that was removed was then a firearms suppressor. Just because they say "Held" doesn't mean squat, they just make their rules and intimidate folks. I'm more inclined to read the law as it's intended, and follow intent, not someone's manipulation. If I had the money to waste, or better yet if I'd have gone into law, I'd love nothing more than to challenge these asinine rulings, but I have other things to do with my time/money, like buying more NFA toys, and even airguns...

Look at it another way; if I own an M-16 full-auto trigger group but don't own an AR-15 or anything to put it in, it's perfectly legal. However, if I own an AR-15 and have these parts, now I'm in trouble, because you can argue intent, because that trigger group is a device for a firearm, specifically that firearm. So if I have an airgun suppressor for an airgun, how does that jump into the firearm category???

I think I've laid about as much good info here that I can, and if you still don't get it, I feel sorry for you, but I'm not going to waste more time debating it with you. Like I said, go read the 2nd Amendment and try and find all the interpretations and see if it's clearer than something explicitly stating "a device for a portable firearm."

And don't worry about my emotional well being, I'm all good, I just don't suffer fools gladly...
Liver
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:20 pm

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by Liver »

Whenever I see such spirited discussion on both sides I see the issue is not black or white. There is a gray area. It's not an absolute.

So I'm going to use my registered suppressor. Anyone know of rifles that come threaded? Most likely I'll have to get it done afterwards.

Does SBR apply to air guns too?
Fallschirmjäger
Silent Operator
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:52 am
Location: Central Ohio

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by Fallschirmjäger »

Liver, realistically your firearms suppressor is not going to work as well as an airgun specific moderator could, although it will help some of course.

Because moderators are typically 1/2x20 UNF, the threading on most airguns is as well. You can get slip-on adapters that are made to accept 1/2x28 threading and others for most airgun barrel sizes, as well as other adapters that convert a threaded airgun. Google "airgun silencer store" and check some of what's available in Britain.

SBR is governed by the National Firearms Act, so no, SBR doesn't apply to airguns.
User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11897
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:02 pm
Location: Houston-ish

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by doubloon »

Liver wrote:... There is a gray area. It's not an absolute.
...
Exactly, it's gray and all I'm saying is it could still rack up some legal fees even if you don't go to jail. As the plane jumper pointed out the circumstances of the transgression are always an important factor in what legal consequences may unfold, I just don't like to bank on things going my way by chance.

A "good" story, it probably cost him quite a bit in legal fees.
http://www.masslive.com/hampfrank/repub ... xml&coll=1

A not so good story but when you are already convicted of a felony you probably need to walk a little closer to the line than everybody else.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1527670.html
Michael Crooker was indicted, tried and convicted for transporting a firearm in interstate commerce as a convicted felon, 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) (2006), and sentenced to 262 months' imprisonment.   The “firearm” was a device designed to muffle the sound of an airgun.
3.2 decibels seems hardly worth the trouble
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1061877.html

There are more stories out there if you search for them.

@Fallschirmjäger - it wasn't a barb at the state of your mental health it was a poke at your chosen forum handle ... Fallschirmjäger == paratrooper ... jump out of a plane ... get it? probably not
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
Fallschirmjäger
Silent Operator
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:52 am
Location: Central Ohio

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by Fallschirmjäger »

No, I get it, a la "perfectly good airplane"... Just something less about mental health and more about intestinal fortitude.

You know, if I would have known answering liver's question would have woke you up, I'd have never posted. :mrgreen:

At the end of the day, whether we agree or not on this, the ATF is really pushing the envelope on the issue. To be completely honest, you can walk into any airsoft store and buy replica's of suppressors that actually will mount on existing firearms, and they would be the same thing you've been talking about, but I don't see the ATF rounding all those folks up and shipping them off to jail.

If it concerns you, don't do it. Me, I'm not concerned.
Fallschirmjäger
Silent Operator
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:52 am
Location: Central Ohio

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by Fallschirmjäger »

Just as a follow up to this thread, I wanted to include a link to a court case:

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1527670.html

In this case the gov't tried to assert that an air rifle silencer/moderator/LDC fell under the NFA, and they lost. One of the key's was the use of "for" in the ATF's definition of a silencer, as well as the intent of the person in possession.

So, I'd say we're good to go with having airgun silencers...
User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11897
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:02 pm
Location: Houston-ish

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by doubloon »

Fallschirmjäger wrote:...
If it concerns you, don't do it. Me, I'm not concerned.
We no doubt agree at least here. The only place we really disagree is in what council we offer over the internet on this topic.

I think we also agree that silencers being regulated under the NFA or as a firearm at all is a ridiculous notion by itself but one we're stuck with for now.

The link you provided is one I linked a few posts earlier, the appeal to a 2006 conviction that resulted in an acquittal 4 years after the original conviction.

Mr. Crooker is certainly no role model of a citizen but he did eventually shirk off the silencer conviction.

I suppose someone could follow in his footsteps and in the event of a legal snag cite Mr. Crooker's case as a precedent but I still think there's wiggle room for the FED to get the occasional conviction that will stick. So, for me personally, I still think it's not worth the trouble, just my opinion of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
jlwilliams
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:15 am
Location: NC

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by jlwilliams »

Fair enough.

I have looked at this and gone round and round with it myself, and this is what I came up with.

It seems clear that BATFE is over reaching and even flat out wrong, but they still win. Anybody who has ever been to court or watched someone close to you go through the wringer has seen how it works. They seize your property, make the whole thing public (a felony arrest often makes your employer find a reason to dismiss you just to get the controversy out of their company) and generally grind you down. Then they spend unlimited money in court. You fight the good fight as long as you can afford to. The only person I've known to fight and win against a major arrest (that was BS from the get go, according to him) got divorced and bankrupted by the process. I have known another who fought untill he went broke, only to have to plead out at the the end because he couldn't fight any more. He thought that just because he didn't do anything wrong meant he didn't have to plead to a misdomenor. He was wrong. Now he's broke and on probation. The point is, they can fight forever on the taxpayer's dime and can limit your access to your own resources in ways you would never imagine untill you are standing in court and a motion is made and passed and you are standing there wondering WTF just happened. (I can provide more details via PM if anybody is interested but I don't want to waste more time on speciffics of these guy's cases)

OK, minor rant on the injustice of "the system" made. Stepping off the soap box and getting down to what all this means in the context of suppressed airguns.

First, there are airguns with integral suppressors all over the market. Some can be bought at big box retailers. Best bet for a suppresed airgun is to buy one. Spring piston guns like the Gamo (Gamo sucks ass, but they fit the conversation) and the new Chinese ones Archer Airguns has (don't recall the name branding) are available or you can go precharged like the Marauder or the TallonSS. Good to go. Most importantly, if you come in contact with LE they are more likely to recognise it as "OK" because it is 'store bought' product. Is that really important? In the minds of those with power over you it may well be the factor that makes them accept it, so yes it is important. You can build your own or buy one off the net, but you are more likely to find yourself arguing the truth to a judge that way than if you had a receipt from Cabella's.

If you do want to build your own, filing a form 1 and registering it as a 'firearm' silencer is cheaper than being right and going to court to prove it. For $200, you get a stamp and a piece of paper that any prosecutor will recognise as a non starter for charging you. If LE finds you plinking legally with your silent airgun, you have paper, you won't even get arrested after they consult their superiors and get told there is no case. All this for less than the retainer you pay an attorney before you even step into court. A co-worker who got DWId a couple years back told me it cost him about $4500. Not sure if that included towing or car related expenses. I just paid $1500 for an attorney to write a freaking letter. A felony arrest will generally take a minimum of a $5k retainer, and plan on $10k minimum in legal bills for a chump charge that gets dismissed. More if you fight well enough to get an aquittal.

I don't think you would do jail time for an airgun silencer all by itself, which is 'legal' but you still could go down for. A screw on can for an airgun without a tax stamp is asking for an expensive, life altering fight. A home built, nicely done integral is less likely to be a problem and if you must go home made, go integral. I do think your best bet for quiet airgunning is to spend $200 to $1000 on a factory built one. You can pick up a Gamo Whisper in the couple hundred dolar range, I think. Precharged silent goodness is awesome and I often wish I hadn't sold my Marauder.

My opinion may seem schitzophrenic. If I say it's legal, why do I think you shouldn't do it? It has just been my observation that life isn't fair. No one cares if you are right, least of all the government. Buying a tax stamp is cheaper than fighting, even if you are right. (again, no one cares if you are right) Buying big box merchandise is easier still. Why do people (in this case, law enforcement people) trust brand name merchandise over higher quality hand made stuff built within the same guidelines? I don't know, but they do.

It all adds up to buy an integral or get a stamp for a screw on.
Fallschirmjäger
Silent Operator
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:52 am
Location: Central Ohio

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by Fallschirmjäger »

The problem is air rifle silencers/moderators don't come serialized, and firearms silencers aren't engineered to work as effectively on air rifles because they're two different mediums, i.e. expanding gas vs. a sudden release of air. Many components of the design are similar, but air rifle silencers don't have to deal with heat so they can use fabric, etc., in the chambers to absorb the air pressure.

So really the point is if I have a guy make me a moderator for my S410 PCP, he's not going to engrave it so I can register it, because then he needs to be licensed, pay SOT, etc... I started writing more, but it's just one of those circular arguments about the ATF saying they don't deal with airguns, etc...

And doubloon, wow, this is why you don't post to a thread that far past it's due date. I did a website for a guy who makes airgun moderators and he sent me that link to reference on the site, and I thought I'd post that out here. I guess in all the back and forth we had I forgot you had originally linked it. Props to you on the link, although it reinforced my original argument on the usage of "For" in the ATF's definition of a silencer.

Regarding my usage of moderators for airguns, I'll continue, and will use them on state land to snipe sparrows and starlings, as well as squirrel when they're in season. If I have any problems with the law, I carry legal insurance, and that case we both referenced sets a legal precedent, so realistically I'd be in the clear. That's not shithouse lawyering, that's literally how the legal system works.

Anyways, at the end of the day, airgun silencers make a huge difference, as I can personally attest to on an air rifle carbine that has a loud crack when you fire it, to now sounding more like a dampened pneumatic nail gun. That's more than a 3 or 4 decibel reduction, but then again, that's using a silencer designed and manufactured FOR an airgun, not a firearm. ;)

Thanks guys.
Scared_of_zombies
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:31 am

Re: School me on air rifle silencers

Post by Scared_of_zombies »

Why not just put a tack weld on the airgun silencer to mount it to the pellet rifle?
Post Reply