Apparently telling the truth is "Cop bashing" on TFL

[Crosshair]

So I start posting in this thread over on TFL discussing if police should wear cameras on their uniforms.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=418637

I make my case in the first post, then another poster denies that there is a problem. I then post a list of several examples of police abusing their power. I found 6 with a few minutes on Google. Here are a couple. I have to go by memory which ones I posted.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 1682.story

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

http://reason.org/news/show/government-license-steal

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=91490480

http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/23/vi ... out-cause/

The other poster then tries to say that "See, you could only find six from several years ago", as if that's supposed to prove anything. I wasn't going for newest, only posting a few examples. Several stories there weren't about "one" incident.

I say that in the thread and post a couple anecdotes I got from talking to inmates while I worked in the Jails. Only then does the thread get locked and angry UN style letters get sent.

I sent Al Norris, the mod, a PM asking him how my post was "cop bashing" since all I did was link to stories that I found on Google or that I knew about. In typical fashion they not only locked the thread, but deleted the posts so I can't show what was said to make my case. (Unless there's still a cached copy on the work computer. I posted while I was on lunch.) I was told I better watch myself because I got talked to for "cop bashing" back in 2008.

I wonder if he'll get pissed and ban me for not worshiping him and asking a question via PM. Does getting banned from TFL get as much prestige as getting banned from Arfcom. Especially considering I've belonged to that forum since 04.

The mods are so anal and arbitrary about things being gun related. I really should ditch them and go over to THR or something. How were my posts off topic when the whole thread was about police dash cameras? If ya don't like it lock the thread. Just because what I was saying was true doesn't make it "cop bashing".

Just need to vent cause I know people here won't go run crying to the mods when they find out that the world aint made of puppies and rainbows.

[ArevaloSOCOM]

"cop bashing" is a phenonmenon I just have never understood. I'll chime in b/c I've been called one myself.

If people rag on lawyers, doctors, any other profession, it's never call "Profession here bashing". Only with LEOs. To top it off, LEOs get all sensitive about it like you are talking about them, this is understandable if someone uses "ALL" though. Usually someone will post a article and people rag the LEO in the article and LEOs in general feel the need to defend themselves, the LEO in the article and such. If the guy in the article is a douchbag, he's a douchebag.....I don't care if he's a cop, Dr., NASA rocket scientist, whatever.......he's a douchebag. I have never felt the need to defend any douchebags in my profession or myself due to the acts of a douchebag in a article.

I've never seen anyone get banned for raggin on lawyers, doctors, any other profession, but have seen posts locked, people banned, people warned, etc..............if they "bash" a LEO. It's always a topic of contension on any gun board i have ever visited.

Now I'm not talking about guys that are reflexively, "F--k the Police", "Pigs", whatever have you.......for every and all posts. I mean, there are plenty of articles posted where I would love for the LEO to shoot some douchebag molester, child porn douche,rapist, murderer, thief in the fucking head! Give me the gun and I'll do it.

It should be a field of study, there's something to it. It bring out the worst in the LEOs and the people that are talking about "Bad" LEOs. It's also not limited to gun boards in any sense, I see it on Gore boards, Youtube posts, etc.....there is something about "cop bashing".....

Problem also lies in the press, they tend to report only "bad" things, rarely a feel good pick me up story, the world is filled with evil men and evil things. So the lack of a "good" LEO story from time to time only compounds the issue. People, I'd like to think, are good generally, including LEOs. So when people see an article where a person who has been deemed a protector of society as a whole commit what they deem to be something wrong, it brings out great anger. It's like finding out Santa doesn't bring X-mas presents, but he breaks in, fucks your mom in the ass and kicks your dog.......You immediately are like WTF?! F--k this punk!

I'd also like to add that the firingline is weak sauce, and YES, LEOs should either have a dashcam or a mimi cam on them. I much prefer video over 2 versions of what happened. With technology today, quit buying M4s and a MP5s and buy cameras, you aren't getting into Mogadishu-type firefight with sheep, you are just pulling them over...buy all the M4s and Mp5s you want AFTER you get cameras. Cameras help keep people HONEST, both the LEO and the citizen. IMHO.

LEO with dashcam & Kid with hidden cam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2GQYiLH ... annel_page

Man with video camera,police stop when they notice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW4AZLCtDzY

LEO chokes EMT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KluItc365hU

LEO is attacked, camera cattches the need for use of force:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpziJTlv7Cw

15yr old girl kicks shoe at LEO, he chokes, takes her down and punches her:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94Sx2rsYt4k

Video captures teens resisting arrest, he's forced to clean one's clock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4sLuB-r7wY

Cop vs Cop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrRdIeK9xoc






Nicest cop EVER:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSdlSN4onsI



Cameras are a good thing!




Anyway, I'll quit ranting, thanks for your time.








ETA: What's the definition of Irony?

I know Mongo started a thread in Random Talk, about a guy with his guns taken/secured by the police. It's now gone..........................

Anyone know what happened?????????

[ROFuher]

I grew up with my father, mother and step father as LEOs. They held badges from deputy sheriff to US Marshalover the course for their carreers. It was universal that every badge was a target. Even in a town of 5000, the only press was bad press.
Cops don't have the liberty of firemen or medical responders of always coming to the rescue. For most of the public, their only contact with law enforcement is on the receiving end of a citation, or after they have become a victim.
Cops deserve the respect of those they serve, but AveraloSOCOM is correct that video should be used to protect both sides. Remove all the nonsense about not filming officers on duty. If I'm being an ass hat, I deserve the consequenses. If the officer is overstepping, there needs to be evidence for review.

[Crosshair]

Exactly. Most cops I've met, working in jail I come across a LOT, LOVE the dash cameras because it protects THEM. People can't file false claims against the officer when the video clearly shows otherwise. Cameras on their person would only reinforce that.

It's not Orwellian to be on camera while on the job. You're on your employers time. Not your own. We have cameras at the office. The boss loves them because he can see where I am and call me on the intercom rather than have to keep calling my cell. I love it because I sometimes use it when I forget exactly when I arrived or left the office.

[Trex]

I did not read all the links but,

Overall uniformed Police here are civil and courteous but if traffic stopped these days I always start my video recorder just in case I get the one who thinks he's Bertie Big Balls should for any reason I disagree with him.

My wife also carries one now after someone ran into the side of her car when our daughter was two years old and they took full responsibility (he didn't see her) but after exchanging details and as soon as he removed himself from the scene he went into denial mode - if she had recorded the incident she could easily have sent him a copy rather than have had to fight for nine months and involve witnesses to get him to pay for the vehicle damage.

Bottom line is I record any interaction of possible import with the Police (or others) and have no problem with them recording thier interaction with me and believe it would be a positive thing if all Police officers were individually wired for audio and video.

[Hush]

Hm, interesting, someone must have complained.
Maybe if you ask RS he will explain, he's a reasonable person. I'd say shoot him a PM but there is is a problem with the system I believe.

I took a look for Mongo's post and yep its gone yet a post of mine "'You're a (expletive) for Tasing an injured person'" about a cop tasering some dude while an emt was working on him is still there, of course there are no replies and no one arguing over it.

Also considering all the other boards out there that have problems with mods and site owners clamping down on what people can say ST is still the best around.
We should also remember that here guests can also come in and look around unlike NFA talk where only members are allowed to enter and browse (which I prefer) may have a bearing on it also.

[mx201er]

I grew up with my father, mother and step father as LEOs. They held badges from deputy sheriff to US Marshalover the course for their carreers. It was universal that every badge was a target. Even in a town of 5000, the only press was bad press.
Cops don't have the liberty of firemen or medical responders of always coming to the rescue. For most of the public, their only contact with law enforcement is on the receiving end of a citation, or after they have become a victim.
Cops deserve the respect of those they serve, but AveraloSOCOM is correct that video should be used to protect both sides. Remove all the nonsense about not filming officers on duty. If I'm being an ass hat, I deserve the consequenses. If the officer is overstepping, there needs to be evidence for review.

That is exactly how I feel, it would be best for both sides. The cops that abuse their power would be caught and removed, therefore there would be less negative views from the public.. and hey, there would probably be some more good videos like the one in the first post! I would like to shake that cop's hand.

[ArevaloSOCOM]

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_15772710

Video here helps the truth come to light.........................Only problem? LEO didn't know he was being recorded.........When the camera catches the LEO assualting the man..........it stops zooming in and pulls.............way back and looks the other way..........

Denver officials are deeply divided over the proper level of punishment for a police officer who was seen on video tackling and beating a 23-year-old man who was doing nothing but talking on a telephone outside a LoDo nightclub.

The Denver City Council earlier this year agreed to pay $17,500 to settle a federal lawsuit brought by DeHerrera alleging excessive force.

DeHerrera, in interviews, has described police as beating him unconscious. He said he woke up in a hospital bed, with stitches in his head, and a swollen head. He said he later was diagnosed with post-concussion syndrome.


The punishment?


Safety Manager Ron Perea, who oversees the police department and has final say on discipline, has rejected Rosenthal's argument that the officers should be fired. He suspended Murr without pay for three days for submitting an "inaccurate report." Sparks also lost three days pay.

From an different case:


Video captures incident between LEO and "perp"...............Video is turned over ......60hrs worth..............MINUS the part that recorded the incident.......

Channel 7 reports that 60 hours of video was handed over to the attorneys –– except for a 90-minute disc from the camera with a view of where McKenna was beaten. The disc covered the time from midnight to 1:30 a.m. on March 4.

University of Maryland spokesman Milree Williams blamed a technical error on the missing tape.

But the disc, which was was found just hours later, was missing two minutes of footage, officials say.

"The server that manages those cameras automatically overwrites at a certain point, and it just overwrote and it didn't give us a opportunity to copy this particular piece," Williams says. .

Channel 7 is also reporting that the campus police official in charge of the video surveillance system, Lt. Joanne Ardovini, is married to one of the Maryland-National Capital Park Police mounted officers named in the complaint police filed against McKenna.

The complaint claimed McKenna had assaulted the mounted officer. The charges were dropped by prosecutors last week. In an interview before the missing disc surfaced, Williams said administrators were aware that missing video would raise additional questions about a case which already includes accusations of a police cover-up.

[DCloudy777]

I also wonder how much longer video evidence can reasonably be counted on, for use for or against the state. Practically all recordings are digital now. Think about some of the video-editing capabilities out there today and in the the near future. With a little money and know-how, I think one could have "video evidence" of just about anybody doing just about anything.

DanO

[Crosshair]

I also wonder how much longer video evidence can reasonably be counted on, for use for or against the state. Practically all recordings are digital now. Think about some of the video-editing capabilities out there today and in the the near future. With a little money and know-how, I think one could have "video evidence" of just about anybody doing just about anything.

DanO

Digital editing of the sort necessary is very time consuming and very difficult. The Camera recorded what it saw, the computer only sees blobs of color You not only have to change the motions/items, you also have to match the compression effects/artifacts exactly, even more difficult to do. A video image that suddenly gets clearer or blurrier is the likely outcome, raising red flags. It tends to be much harder to convincingly edit a blurry/lower quality video than it is to modify crisp HD video. The recording is imperfect, but the computer can't match those imperfections without lots of manual adjustments..

On a still image yea, you could pull it off. With video it's not very likely even with today's tech. If you have multiple views of the same vent, good frigin luck moding both to match.