Say it ain't so........

[silencertalk]

I have read a few people saying they had a problem with their gun, but I never attributed it to some cost optimization plan. Also it is really hard to know what the rate is, because they make so many guns. Even the iPhone has a 4% return rate - so that would mean that over 20 million iPhones have been returned by unhappy customers. Still a great product.

[aries14482]

What you're saying makes perfect sense, but the apparent failure rate of SIG's US made guns (all the new designs, including the Sig556 rifle) is notably higher than premium domestically produced firearms in the same cost range (Colt ARs, BCM products, Arsenal AKs, etc). Disturbingly, some of the failures also seem to originate from poor design decisions, not just substandard QC. Don't excuse them just because of the impossibility of obtaining concrete statistical failure numbers.

Here's just one example I found in five seconds of searching: http://www.sigarms556.com/viewtopic.php?t=9351

The owner has an issue with a rail inexplicably lacking necessary welds, contacts the factory, and is told that it's fine. It plainly isn't fine. The owner goes on (wisely, in my opinion) to plan to correct the problem himself since he has the proper equipment.

Quality of manufacture (and design) is visibly poor when compared to Swiss-made rifles, and I'm not talking about silly things like finish or machine marks. I mean things like welds and the apparent quality and application of fasteners like rivets and screws. I would not choose such a firearm for potential life-saving use. Why would I when I can buy a premium rifle or handgun for the same cost or less and have little fear of issue?

So, what keeps these firearms selling in spite of all the rumors of issues? Name recognition and associated former quality, brand loyalty with its associated apologists, gun rag ads, unscrupulous (or ignorant) gun dealers, and a large pool of low information buyers who typically purchase a firearm having done little research and who shoot it very little from a bench on a range. SIG's USA division is a perfect example of capitalism without morality: they justify knowingly selling a flawed product, turn a blind eye and a def ear to its flaws, use PR to excuse and deny the existence of those flaws, and use marketing to paint a false image of their product to dupe buyers into purchasing, because it turns a profit! They are marketing centric. It's an abusive, myopic, pandemic failing of modern US corporations that chases end-user business from them as quickly as quality alternatives present themselves outside the market they attempt to control via lobyists and government regulation. The problem is, it's being taught as THE modern way to do business, because it works as long as you have a pool of buyers who a. aren't likely to use the product enough find out it's s--t and b. aren't likely to make trouble for you beyond what your PR and legal departments can efficiently handle.

To the modern US corporate mind it seems that 'wasting' money on innovation is a last-ditch action, only taken when necessary to maintain market parity with the competition, and always done as cheaply as marketing can sell.

[CallMeShooter]

It's good that the AAC guys chimed in on this thread. I would believe them over a blog post about AAC's future. I'm not saying FG wouldn't pull this move, but it just doesn't make much sense logically. AAC is in a new factory and still spending plenty on R&D, why gut it?

And combining it with Tapco would be basically gutting it.

Anyway, let's hope Mers and Silvers are spot on.

[aries14482]

Agreed.

[JasonM]

holy s--t -

http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscou ... ation-aac/

[Jonas]

Times they are a-changin'

[MCKNBRD]

holy s--t -

http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscou ... ation-aac/

Holy Sh!t is right.

Hmmm...

Byrdman

[RJT]

You guys still talking about this?

When you see something without a named source, then it generally cannot be trusted.

[KingTiger]

That sucks.

I guess there's worse places than Huntsville, but I wouldn't be moving.

[schen8]

Looks like things just got real....
Remington Outdoors Company is doing some house cleaning consolidation:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/0 ... personnel/
http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscou ... ation-aac/

[DarkPhoenix]

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2014/05/15/g ... g-alabama/

Just relocating? Perhaps all is not lost.

[este]

This isn't happening
This can't happen
This won't happen
Stupid truth about guns and their unnamed source
This is a hoax

.... Oh, we've all just been fired :\


You did kinda have a 3-4 week warning something might be up... but I still feel bad for everyone that just lost their jobs! Having to "reapply" for your own job in a different state, that's not a great position to be in. Seniority likely gone, vacation/sick time gone, same paycheck unlikely, and that's IF you even manage to beat out all the other people that you have known in the industry as "friend"s, or the 20-somethings fresh out of school, or the "contractor" who now has shitty knees but can leverage their teir1 time with highups at Rem Defense, all just to get the same or lesser job you have today.

Not a position I want to be in nor would I wish upon most people.

[HKschalldampfer]

1) Is there anything confirmed from someone inside AAC? Before we all get bent out of shape let the facts land.
2) If it is true all is not lost. The people inside AAC will probably land on their feet. Henry and some of his crew landed at Silencerco. Kevin, Ethan and Linsey all wound up at Sig and are still innovative. If it is true let's wish everyone the best of luck and we should see if AAC will remain making the same products or bringing new technology to market. Some of the key players will probably be offered a position else where inside Remington just to reassure the masses. In my experience when you consolidate a company you keep a few of the old guard to reassure everyone else that all is well within the ranks.

The other thing to remember is that Kevin founded AAC to make money. Remington is not in the firearm business, they're like every other business. Their job is to make money. Having different units of your company in different states creates unimaginable headaches for loss prevention and human resources. Not to mention labor laws that differ from state to state. This has been in the playbook since the beginning I assure you. They'll also receive hellacious tax breaks moving to Alabama. That will allow them to reinvest in product development, more machines, and more jobs to run those machines. I don't know if that is such a bad thing. With the military contracts we will not see a decline in what already exists. They may be less innovative at first but to count it out from the onset is fool hardy at best.

[silencertalk]

AAC is not closing - it is moving to the new much larger facility.

This is Remington's statement:

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2014/05/15/g ... g-alabama/

“Earlier today we announced the consolidation of multiple company plants into our Huntsville, Alabama, facility,” said Remington Spokesman Teddy Novin. “This was a strategic business decision to concentrate our resources into fewer locations and improve manufacturing efficiency and quality. We are working hard to retain as many people from the affected facilities as possible.”

[HKschalldampfer]

AAC is not closing - it is moving to the new much larger facility.

This is Remington's statement:

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2014/05/15/g ... g-alabama/

“Earlier today we announced the consolidation of multiple company plants into our Huntsville, Alabama, facility,” said Remington Spokesman Teddy Novin. “This was a strategic business decision to concentrate our resources into fewer locations and improve manufacturing efficiency and quality. We are working hard to retain as many people from the affected facilities as possible.”

And there it is. Thank you Mr. Silvers.

[1_ar_newbie]

This isn't happening
This can't happen
This won't happen
Stupid truth about guns and their unnamed source
This is a hoax

.... Oh, we've all just been fired :\


You did kinda have a 3-4 week warning something might be up... but I still feel bad for everyone that just lost their jobs! Having to "reapply" for your own job in a different state, that's not a great position to be in. Seniority likely gone, vacation/sick time gone, same paycheck unlikely, and that's IF you even manage to beat out all the other people that you have known in the industry as "friend"s, or the 20-somethings fresh out of school, or the "contractor" who now has shitty knees but can leverage their teir1 time with highups at Rem Defense, all just to get the same or lesser job you have today.

Not a position I want to be in nor would I wish upon most people.

I am not sure why you think what I said is not true.

AAC is not closing. We are surely not merging our product line with Tapco. The "truth" about guns was way off.

We are moving to a 500,000 square foot manufacting facility in 2015. In this new facility AAC will make better silencers faster. This move is exciting for AAC's future.

No other silencer company has as many resources as AAC does. We will keep growing ( as usual)



Mers

[este]

I am not sure why you think what I said is not true.
AAC is not closing. We are surely not merging our product line with Tapco. The "truth" about guns was way off.

Never said or believed AAC was closing. Just pointing out where there is smoke there is fire.

We are moving to a 500,000 square foot manufacturing facility in 2015. In this new facility AAC will make better silencers faster. This move is exciting for AAC's future.
No other silencer company has as many resources as AAC does. We will keep growing ( as usual)

Um... Didn't you guys say the EXACT same things when the buyout from Remington came? That you'd be faster, this is exciting, etc? Because to be frank, no silencer company has HAD the resources you guys have had since getting in with Remington. And we've still seen very little of products that were announced years ago. The SDN6 is still the hot product and that's a modified 762-SD which was designed when again?

Where is the Ranger3!? I've been waiting on that for how long? It's seems like a less complex M4-2000 you've been making for like... 6 years or something? Whoever had the idea to remove the Mod '08 from the cans naming deserves praise by the way. I'm an AAC fan but this does not seem like good news. In the same time we heard the last "this is great news for AAC", Silencerco has revealed, produced, shipped, and enough time has gone by for customers to actually have in hand Sakers. They don't seem to have Remington level resources.

I'm not sure I've seen anything but Remington bring red tape to AAC, which is a total bummer. Am I alone in thinking that AAC actually moved a s--t ton faster when they didn't have all these amazing "resources"? So now you'll be in the same house as tapco and 6 or 7 others and you think that isn't going to add another layer of management and politics? I hope I'm wrong, but I've got about as big a hope for AAC to rock the industry now as I do Bushmaster, Tapco, DPMS. Which to be fair to DPMS, their Gen2 AR10 does actually seem like a fair idea if it doesn't fail out to fullsize AR10s.


So with the defensive, we can assume you are moving to Huntsville and staying with AAC then?

[silencertalk]

I'm not sure I've seen anything but Remington bring red tape to AAC, which is a total bummer. Am I alone in thinking that AAC actually moved a s--t ton faster when they didn't have all these amazing "resources"?

It depends if you consider the extra testing that each product goes through to be red tape. For sure things were faster when there was less testing. As for the SDN6 being the new hot product, I have two comments. One is that the SDN6 is the best 300 BLK suppressor available from anyone, as far as I know. It is in combat use, and well liked. Two is that the SR7 is shipping, but the ATF is the bottleneck and has not yet approved the transfers to the distributors. The ATF has recently hired 12 new examiners but they are still in training.

[SpeedyR]

glad to hear that AAC staff are excited about the change. I worked for a company that split up and folks were able to apply for positions with either company, one in the existing location, one in SLC. I decided to do neither, but I know folks that did both (moved and stayed). If they do it right, everyone comes out happy. Sure it's time where corp can "trim some fat" but overall if they do it right, the folks that have knowledge and experience and contacts will be able to come thru with everything intact.

I'm sure there are some that will want to stay in ATL, but having lived here for 30+ years, and having spent a lot of time in Huntsville for work, I would have no hesitation to move to AL if given a decent opportunity. It's a great city, lots of outdoor activities, and unlike many other cities, there is a LOT of growth there in technology and military stuff. Disappointing that they won't be in my back yard any more but never really took advantage of that anyway. Not like glock where I could stop by to have my guns reconditioned during lunch.

Good luck to all and may the future look bright!

[silencertalk]

Um... Didn't you guys say the EXACT same things when the buyout from Remington came? That you'd be faster, this is exciting, etc? Because to be frank, no silencer company has HAD the resources you guys have had since getting in with Remington. And we've still seen very little of products that were announced years ago.

Those products should not have been announced until they passed product testing and we were sure that they could be manufactured. That is one thing that changed - now we only announce actual products that are in production.

And surely you must know that we could have never launched 300 AAC Blackout without the resources of Remington and Barnes. So it is true - that we leveraged those resources to do something that no other silencer company could have done.