Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

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Smilodon
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Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by Smilodon » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:46 am

I e:mailed PM's Mers a couple of months ago about picking up some spare springs for my SD, but haven't heard anything back. What's the best venue for getting some?
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by JasonAAC » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:29 pm

Smilodon wrote:I e:mailed PM's Mers a couple of months ago about picking up some spare springs for my SD, but haven't heard anything back. What's the best venue for getting some?
If you are talking about the mount spring in the back of the silencer, you need to send it back to us.

I know this sucks, but it is a "suppressor part" and cannot just be mailed out.

I'd call or PM mers again.
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by Conqueror » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:11 am

When did that become the case? I bought my 18T can in late 2008 and the manual has instructions for changing the spring at home.
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by JasonAAC » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:04 pm

Conqueror wrote:When did that become the case? I bought my 18T can in late 2008 and the manual has instructions for changing the spring at home.
Since we were acquired by corporate overlords that interpret BATFE rules in their own way.
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by Kramer » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:07 pm

JasonAAC wrote:
Conqueror wrote:When did that become the case? I bought my 18T can in late 2008 and the manual has instructions for changing the spring at home.
Since we were acquired by corporate overlords that interpret BATFE rules in their own way.

So now you guys are stuck doing the small stupid stuff that could be done by the owner.

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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by krecon1 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:05 am

Kramer wrote:
JasonAAC wrote:
Conqueror wrote:When did that become the case? I bought my 18T can in late 2008 and the manual has instructions for changing the spring at home.
Since we were acquired by corporate overlords that interpret BATFE rules in their own way.

So now you guys are stuck doing the small stupid stuff that could be done by the owner.
What about getting a spring bending jig and rolling your own? If you can do it right you could have the suppressor be fully mounted and have both springs seat into their respective grooves on the mount. You'd have to play with the length/bend to get it to fit right...maybe this would eliminate the loosening/backing off when firing.

Then again, perhaps drilling and tapping for a set screw is the way to go.

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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by kletzenklueffer » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:19 pm

I was about to contact to order one for my M41000. Is it possible to stop by and have it swapped while I'm there? I'm a few miles north of ya'll.

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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by chrismartin » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:18 pm

Jason, can you confirm that you need to send the SPRING back, not the entire silencer?

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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by JasonAAC » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:58 am

chrismartin wrote:Jason, can you confirm that you need to send the SPRING back, not the entire silencer?
Chris, I believe it is the whole can.

With ATF's belief that a suppressor part is a suppressor itself, to remove the spring and ship it back means there are 2 suppressors. Stupid, I know. I will confirm.
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by JasonAAC » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:59 am

kletzenklueffer wrote:I was about to contact to order one for my M41000. Is it possible to stop by and have it swapped while I'm there? I'm a few miles north of ya'll.
Most likely, yes.

Contact Mike Mers ([email protected]) to confirm.
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by PPGMD » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:37 pm

JasonAAC wrote:With ATF's belief that a suppressor part is a suppressor itself, to remove the spring and ship it back means there are 2 suppressors. Stupid, I know. I will confirm.
I am sorry but that makes no sense, what about pistons? Suppressor mounts? What about take apart cans? Does that mean that when I have an element part I have a table full of suppressors?

Is this an actual BATFE ruling, or is thing purely Remington? Because there is no conceivable way that I could use the spring to make a suppressor, and I would be surprised if the BATFE publishing something that stupid.
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by JasonAAC » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:00 am

PPGMD wrote:
JasonAAC wrote:With ATF's belief that a suppressor part is a suppressor itself, to remove the spring and ship it back means there are 2 suppressors. Stupid, I know. I will confirm.
I am sorry but that makes no sense, what about pistons? Suppressor mounts? What about take apart cans? Does that mean that when I have an element part I have a table full of suppressors?

Is this an actual BATFE ruling, or is thing purely Remington? Because there is no conceivable way that I could use the spring to make a suppressor, and I would be surprised if the BATFE publishing something that stupid.
PP- I am not arguing with you, simply telling you what the policy is. I don't know where it came from.

A piston is considered an adaptor, not a part of the silencer itself (thank god). Take apart cans are just that, take apart cans, it is not legal for you to walk around with extra parts of the can, extra endcaps, extra baffles, etc.

If you have your element in front of you, you have a silencer, if you take it apart, you have a table full of silencer parts. Each of those parts is controlled, so yes, we cannot just send you a new baffle or endcap, or even the mount spring on your 18T can. But if you send it to us, as a manufacturer, we can replace with new parts and destroy the old parts.

The ATF considers individual components to be suppressors themselves in order to eliminate the old gunshow special of one table selling a tube and another table selling baffles, and someone being able to buy up the individual parts and construct their own unregistered can.

You can choose not to believe me, but do believe this- it would be a hell of a lot easier for us if we could just drop a spring in an envelope and send it out. We would if we could.
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by PPGMD » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:44 am

I'm not arguing I am just wondering where this restriction is coming from. Which rule? If we know where it's coming from then perhaps we have a chance of getting it changed.

I am sure that Remington doesn't want people wasting time that they could doing profitable things doing changing a simple spring that they could mail.

And we as consumers don't want to risk out $1,000 cans being mailed twice, and being out of service for 4 weeks.
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by JasonAAC » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:50 pm

PPGMD wrote:I'm not arguing I am just wondering where this restriction is coming from. Which rule? If we know where it's coming from then perhaps we have a chance of getting it changed.

I am sure that Remington doesn't want people wasting time that they could doing profitable things doing changing a simple spring that they could mail.

And we as consumers don't want to risk out $1,000 cans being mailed twice, and being out of service for 4 weeks.
Fair enough, I will do some research this week and find out when this became/why this is the case.
Also, don't get me wrong, i understand your feelings on the matter.
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by Kramer » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:07 pm

PPGMD wrote: I am sure that Remington doesn't want people wasting time that they could doing profitable things doing changing a simple spring that they could mail.

And we as consumers don't want to risk out $1,000 cans being mailed twice, and being out of service for 4 weeks.

Exactly. My post above was directly related to the point in bold, the lower part was secondary.

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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by copenhagen » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:47 pm

Jason, I love this quote:
Since we were acquired by corporate overlords that interpret BATFE rules in their own way.
I know being in the Marines was not going from being independent AAC to Corporate owned AAC, but I really feel like I can sympathize with you- any time you go from being a Squad Leader to being part of a Company Operation, or God forbid, a Battalion FX. It sucks, but I've seen just as dumb or dumber! Glad I have a 51T. Hope the ratchet doesn't wear out.

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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by Smilodon » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:27 pm

Crap, that sucks! So what is the procedure for getting the springs replaced? I've never had to send an NFA item. I think mine is still fine, but what would be the testing protocol that one uses to decide when it's time to change the spring?
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by JasonAAC » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:57 pm

Smilodon wrote:Crap, that sucks! So what is the procedure for getting the springs replaced? I've never had to send an NFA item. I think mine is still fine, but what would be the testing protocol that one uses to decide when it's time to change the spring?
If yours locks on fine, then don't worry about it. It's pretty easy to see if the 'tip' of the spring is worn so flat it doesn't engage the teeth on the mount anymore.

Sending it back is easy- contact Mers or Hollister for an RMA, then ship it to us with a photocopy of your form 4.
We fix and ship back. Obviously tracked, insured, and express is best.
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by Smilodon » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:03 pm

Thanks, I'll just keep an eye on it then. 8)
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by xdeano » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:31 pm

I had springs go out on mine last year, I contacted Mike, shipped it out. AAC fixed and shipped back inside of the week that i shipped it. It takes more time for them to open the box than it does to swap out springs. They then ship it back on their own dime, which is going to cost them some money in the end, if you've got 3000 cans coming in a year or so. That's a lot of BS shipping. But ATF doesn't have anything else to do but screw with the system to slow things down, typical gov red tape. I've gone through this for years working for the man. It gets old.

Mike and AAC will treat you good.

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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by JasonAAC » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:47 pm

xdeano wrote:Mike and AAC will treat you good.
Thanks. We are not doing this because we want to. But we will do whatever we can to help you out.
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by be4uf » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:13 am

Ok, just spoke to an ATF Agent at the Technical Branch who after I explained what the retention spring was, its function with regards to the silencer, it’s location on the silencer and how without or minimal tools can be removed and replaced without effecting the performance of the sound muffling qualities of the silencer, stated it would not be considered a silencer and would be considered a registered user / owner replaceable part.
He recommended I submit the information I relayed to him and he said I should receive a written clearance from the ATF Technical Branch.

My question to AAC is, since if this agent knows what he is talking about and I do receive a clearance letter will the springs become available to users/owners again? The agent seemed to be kind of familiar with this subject and question and somehow was under the impression that the end cap of the silencer had to be removed to replace the retention spring. Can it be this simple………just ask the right question in the right way?

One of the first things you learn about with the law is what right and what is the law are two different things, but while not always right the law tends to follow logic sooner or later. The spring in no way effects the sound muffling qualities of the silencer or is necessary for the operation of the silencer, keeps it from backing off but its lack there of does not stop the silencer from muffling the sound of the shot. Now on the other hand the flash suppressor/adapter is integral to the operation and function of the silencer, without it the silencer cannot be attached to the weapon, therefore cannot muffle the shot fired from the firearm. Following this logic the suppressor/adapter should be considered a restricted silencer part more than the retaining spring.

One more thought before I go……….all AAC would have to do is manufacture and make available and sell some dummy M4-1000 suppressors and the spring problem would have been fixed along time ago because that spring would no longer be unique and exclusive for use on an NFA item.

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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by ASM1 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:49 am

BTT
We need springs,I am close to useing duct tap to keep this thing on.. many 51tooth Cans around here I have looked close, and it would be a simple operation to install the rachet latch in my 18T can..
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by tReznr » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:49 pm

Is mailing the can back vs sending out a spring still the AAC/Remington policy?
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Re: Retainer springs for '07 762 SD?

Post by m1garand30064 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:15 pm

tReznr wrote:Is mailing the can back vs sending out a spring still the AAC/Remington policy?
It is an ATF policy.
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