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 Post subject: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:49 pm 
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Iv got a 12" 1:7 twist barrel on my m4. Im starting to mess around with 75 gr bullets and have noticed tighter groups due to stabalization. My question is what is going to give me more stopping power. Something like an m885 or 55gr bullet vs. a 75 or 77 gr BTHP. I know the smaller round will tumble and frag during terminal ballistics at closer ranges but will a 75 gr mushroom and have more power to put someone down or cause more devastation. I just got out of the USMC and all we used were m885 green tip.

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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:47 am 
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Hornady TAP

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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:57 am 
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yeah i know hornady makes great ammo but my question is 55gr vs 75 gr

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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:41 am 
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The answer to that question is possibly going to depend on the range of your target.

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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:52 am 
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id like to know what would cause more damage 200yrds-500yrds and what would cause more damage CQB-100yrds


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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:43 pm 
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Since you have a barrel of adequate twist (stabilization) and adequate length (velocity) I would take advantage of 75gr.

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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:01 pm 
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Hornady TAP line is probably the best ammo you can get for what you're asking. That's what it is designed for.I like to run as heavy a bullet I can with my twist rate, usually the Hornady TAP 75gr BTHP. The M855 is great for armor , but it sucks when it comes to terminal performance. With a 1x7 twist barrel a 55gr bullet is going to have to hit a good sized bone to tumble or fragment when your up close. The larger bullets(69gr 75gr 77gr) have proven them selves at long range. The longer the bullet the easier it is to upset when it encounters something and can hit with more energy. If the bullet has a cannelure it with brake up an fragment at the cannelure. I have also have better luck with a 75gr bullet when punching through lite barriers also. When I got hit from a 55gr round Thank God all it did was punch through and just left a small wound like being stuck with a small round punch and the wound did very little bleeding. It did hit bone and still didn't fragment, so I am not impressed with a 55gr FMJ bullet. Go with something that is desinged to leave the largest permanet wound channel, something that's expanding,fragmenting,or just the largest. With a 1x7 twist you can go up to 77gr but the 75gr a-max bullet from hornady will not fit in an AR mag, 75gr BTHP is fine.


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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:44 pm 
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Barrier TAP if you can get it. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:15 pm 
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Whatever is said here:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881


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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:56 pm 
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I use a Colt AR,Which I have sense 1990. I used Wolf Ammo with mixed Results, But the Malaysian 5.56mm Ball M193 I get better performance using my 1/7 twist shorty 16" barrel.

This may help with your question 223.5.56mm what gives the best stopping power.

The Russian 7.62x39mm rounds begin to tumble 25cm after impact and adopt a base forward configuration at 50cm. Total penetration depth will be 74cm. A Yugoslavian 7.62x39mm round began tumbling at 9cm and finished tumbling at 33cm.

The 5.56x45mm M855 and M196 rounds both have the same terminal performance when the impact velocity is the same. The rounds began to tumble after 12cm and showed considerable fragmentation. Total penetration was 36cm.

The 5.45x39mm Russian tumbled after 7cm and continued to about 45cm. Total penetration was 52cm.

The 7.62x51 NATO Spitzer rounds began to tumble at 16cm and finished at 35cm. Total penetration depth was around 64cm. German steel jacketed rounds began tumbling at 8cm, traveled 58cm overall and showed considerable fragmentation.

The .30 caliber round nose rifle bullet could be expected to tumble between 37cm and 63cm, 50cm being the average.

When the bullet tumbles it begins to fragment, and the channels that these fragments cut weakens the surrounding tissue and makes it more susceptible to damage from stretching. The result is a large volume wound cavity that may be 7cm across at its widest. The important consideration here is that both M193 and M855 bullets are less likely to fragment at below 2700fps and do not fragment if they strike at a velocity of less than 2500fps. For a 20" barreled weapon rounds will fragment out to 140-200m range and for a 16" barreled weapon out to 95-150m range. At ranges under 200m the lighter M193 round has been claimed to have a 200fps velocity over the M855 at the same range, so has a greater likelyhood of fragmenting. This actual value can be called into question, given the specifications for the M193 call for a a muzzle velocity of 3,250 +/- 40 fps from a 20 inch test barrel measured 15 feet from the muzzle and for the M855 3,100 +/- 40 fps from a 20 inch test barrel measured 15 feet from the muzzle. Certainly at under 200m the M193 has a higher velocity than a M855. A rule of thumb seems to be that a M193 will fragment at 50m greater range than a M855.

Shorter barreled assault rifles have a muzzle velocity below the critical level so rounds fired from these will not fragment and will produce reduced wounding and incapacitation. There is some evidence that these bullets will not tumble either, and behave like small calibre FMJ pistol rounds. Mimimum barrel length for use with FMJ rounds seems to be 14.5”. Tests show a 55gr M193 fired from a M4 with a 14.5” barrel has a muzzle velocity 2,850fps and fragments. The same round fired from a G36K with a 12.5” barrel has a muzzle velocity of 2,650fps and very little fragmentation. Note that the current issue M855 62gr round has a lower muzzle velocity than a M193. Range at which fragmentation will occur with either round from 14.5” barrels is probably less than 100m.

Another factor to consider is that when a rifle bullet leaves the muzzle it is usually yawing, and only stabilises after 10m or so. This is why against certain materials bullets exhibt greater penetration at medium range than short, despite lower velocity. At very close range a 5.56mm bullet may display tumbling and fragmentation, even though it is travelling slower than 2500fps. Range at which this happens is very short however a Colt commando or similar shorty might be an sufficient room clearer, but wouldn't be a street fighter. A 16” or 20” barrelled weapon is still going to wound a target more effectively. Shorter barrelled versions of assault rifles are marketed as CQB weapons, so it is worth realizing that such guns will have reduced stopping power in the very role that they need it most.

The 55 grain M193 cartridge used in the M16 and M16A1 is not sensitive to rifling twist rate and can be fired in rifles with twist rates of 1 in 7" to 1 in 12" . The M855 (M16A2) cartridge is best used with a rifling twist rate of 1 in 7" or 1 in 9". If the M855 is fired from a rifle with a slower rate of twist the longer 62 grain bullet can yaw up to 70 degrees in free trajectory through the air, substantially degrading accuracy.


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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Up close, go with the lighter grain.

That said, if both hit in the same spot, I don't know how someone could live on the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:54 pm 
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77 gr SMK is down right nasty.

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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:03 pm 
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No 5.56 ball gives consistent terminal performance. Sometimes they have a very long neck before tumble and fragmentation.

75gr TAP is about as good as it gets for the fragmenting type bullets. It offers good penetration while most lighter 55gr bullets are really designed for varmint size targets. Depending on the angle and/or possibility of an arm being between you and your target (like someone pointing a gun at you), the light bullet may not get to vital tissue.

The best choice would be a "Barrier Blind" bullet, they are bonded, solid copper, or the partition. They have good penetration and very consistent performance, including through heavy clothing.


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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Whatever one your hit with.

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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:55 pm 
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-k- wrote:
No 5.56 ball gives consistent terminal performance. Sometimes they have a very long neck before tumble and fragmentation.

75gr TAP is about as good as it gets for the fragmenting type bullets. It offers good penetration while most lighter 55gr bullets are really designed for varmint size targets. Depending on the angle and/or possibility of an arm being between you and your target (like someone pointing a gun at you), the light bullet may not get to vital tissue.

The best choice would be a "Barrier Blind" bullet, they are bonded, solid copper, or the partition. They have good penetration and very consistent performance, including through heavy clothing.

Barnes VOR-TX
http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/a ... mmunition/

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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Having only the ability to use the M855 62 grain ball round and the M856 tracer round against human targets with my M4 in military service, I would offer these observations. You will not achieve a body-tearing, 6 inch gaping hole wound from any 5.56mm round. You may get fragmentation based on where the round hits, or you may get a through-and-through. Anyhow, it was always best to obtain a central nervous system hit (where the results were blatant...immediate crumple and fall), or keep the phrase in mind "don't stop 'til they drop". Now, if they happen to get struck by a 650-some odd grain .50 BMG round or a 7.62 round, THEN you'd notice a big difference in the stopping power. All that being said, I think if you stick with the heavier round, 75 or 77 grain, you will be fine. Unless you score a CNS shot like I mentioned, the difference in a 55gr and 75 gr will not be a dramatic comparison.


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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:24 am 
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The comparison is twisted. If your using the same bullet in both then you have something but comparing a 5.56 fmj to a .223 hunting hollow point is not exactly a true comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:03 am 
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Any of the seventy-some grain bullets whether bonded or the TAP fragmenting sort will be better at CQB distances. Forget any of those 55 or 62 grain military ball rounds, they are not the best choice for putting someone down quick unless you get them in the melon or spine. I've seen several people get hit by 7.62mm ball rounds in the center mass area and still function for long enough to potentially cause you a problem in a CQB situation. The 175 gr BTHPs we ran in our M24s and M14s did not seem to consistently fragment or tumble; sometimes they would, sometimes they wouldn't. Get a heavier grain bullet that consistently mushrooms or fragments and you will be far better off than any fmj.


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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:39 am 
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Broken11B wrote:
Unless you score a CNS shot like I mentioned, the difference in a 55gr and 75 gr will not be a dramatic comparison.

It depends on the bullet. A 55gr HP bullet will have much less penetration that a 70+gr HP, and if the bullet doesn't go deep enough to get to vital tissue it can't work well.



tsands974 wrote:
Any of the seventy-some grain bullets whether bonded or the TAP fragmenting sort will be better at CQB distances. Get a heavier grain bullet that consistently mushrooms or fragments and you will be far better off than any fmj.

With fragmenting bullets you need the extra weight to keep penetration deep enough. With bonded or solid bullets you do not need the extra weight as much. BH 50gr TSX, Federal 55gr TBBC, and Speer 55gr Gold Dot all do very well.


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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:10 am 
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-k- wrote:
Broken11B wrote:
Unless you score a CNS shot like I mentioned, the difference in a 55gr and 75 gr will not be a dramatic comparison.

It depends on the bullet. A 55gr HP bullet will have much less penetration that a 70+gr HP, and if the bullet doesn't go deep enough to get to vital tissue it can't work well.



tsands974 wrote:
Any of the seventy-some grain bullets whether bonded or the TAP fragmenting sort will be better at CQB distances. Get a heavier grain bullet that consistently mushrooms or fragments and you will be far better off than any fmj.

With fragmenting bullets you need the extra weight to keep penetration deep enough. With bonded or solid bullets you do not need the extra weight as much. BH 50gr TSX, Federal 55gr TBBC, and Speer 55gr Gold Dot all do very well.

Is there any other round that comes close to the TAP ammp? :?:


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 Post subject: Re: .223/5.56 What gives the best stopping power.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Barnes, Gold Dot, or TBBC - probably all better than TAP.


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