Can we discuss the different types of shooting comps?

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:47 pm

That's even cheaper than the steel spinnging target I bought for $30!

How well do bowling pins stand up to being shot over and over? We found that golf balls do alright.

Davo5o · Post by **Davo5o** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:02 pm

If they're frozen they shatter.

Otherwise they suck up a ton of lead and steel.

Surprisingly well.

Gato · Post by **Gato** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:35 pm

I love seeing the tail end of a bullet sticking out of one. They are some sturdy sob's.

Davo5o · Post by **Davo5o** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:43 pm

Careful with shotguns, don't stand to close, and only shoot with 7-8 shot. Obviously wear eye pro.

Never shoot them when laying down on the ground, only standing. My buddy learned the hard way with a 230gr 45ACP in the shin.

Didn't draw blood, but he was hopping around like a SOB with a loaded gun in his hand.

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:47 pm

I've been peppered in the chest by 20 gauge bird shot while watching someone else shoot. I wasn't wearing eye protection.

pneumagger · Post by **pneumagger** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:29 pm

I recently started attending USPSA matches to get more practice than renting a lane at a range can give you.
I'm not a USPSA member... I just show up for fun/practice.
Drawing, moving, firing & moving, firing from cover, reloading... it's an awesome tool IMO.
The Regional Qualifiers are a bit dull, but depending on your range, plain old local matches are alot of fun.

USPSA seemed to be more "freeform" so I went with that instead of IDPA.
IDPA seems to have overbearing rules IMO - whole "from cover", "tactical", and "magazine" rules seem silly and unrealistic.
In USPSA it's just you, the targets, and your strategy. You can reload when/where you want and engage any targets you want (unless told otherwise).

USPSA scoring seems simple from my basic understanding.
=> Targets have A/B/C zones like most range targets. (Aim center of mass and your good to go.)
=> A major caliber (.40-.45+) gets more points for the same shot placement as a minor caliber (9mm).
=> Competition is scored as "points-per-second" so you need to get alot of good hits and make haste doing it.
=> Hit's on target score points while misses and shooting hostages draws penalties.

I shoot my stock Glock 19 or 1911 from plain OWB holsters and bring about 3 mags.
In Single Stack or Production division, I'm pretty well on level playing fields.
I wouldn't dare try doing Open or Limited class without a host of extra equipment.
I'm just there to become mroe competent with a pistol, so I'm using my everyday carry guns porposefully.
Matches are about 3 hours every other week, cost $10, and usually require about 1-2 boxes of ammo - so figure about $25-$50 per match.

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:31 pm

Thanks for all the fantastic responses guys, this is exactly what I was looking for.

Ben B. · Post by **Ben B.** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:16 am

I shoot both plus steel matches, and love them all. USPSA is a pure gun game and fun. The IDPA rules were made to counter some of the "tactically" stupid gun game stuff that happens in USPSA, like running out in front of an array of targets to shoot them, but it's a gun game too, and also fun.

Your M&P in 40 with light .40 loads is a dream of a Production gun, and don't let anyone tell you different. The gun is competitive. Major PF ammo will results in slower splits, but as a newby you are a loooooooong way from that being an issue. Most of the large improvements needed have nothing to do with actually shooting. They are course management, moving between arrays, smooth reloads, avoidance of "freezing", etc.

Bring some humility with you. Good action shooting (the type that wins) is an acquired skill, and really fun.

Diomed · Post by **Diomed** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:23 am

Cortland wrote:Well then you folks have truly lost your way. We gotta keep this dream alive.

If you're in VA, there are regular pin shoots in Wakefield and I believe Richmond. Just get in your car and drive.

Keeping a dream alive is often helped by advertising that dream, publicizing that dream, you see where I'm going?

Never heard of any such business in Richmond.

Anyway, if you can do matches without signing up for a national organization, do it. Give it a good tryout without plunking down money and contact info. I shoot ICORE, but I don't belong to it. Haven't got any interest in doing the championships, etc., even if I was good enough, which I am not.

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:42 pm

This was a lot of fun. See the bag over my shoulder? In this stage you had to take a "flashbang" out of the bag and throw it through the door or window before you engaged the targets at each of the five positions. I'm shooting through a window that you have to open up. You are not allowed to shoot the targets with the green hands on them (It was St. Patty's Day) and the targets with solid green meant that they were behind solid cover, so if you shot in the solid green, it did not count as a hit.

When our group first walked over to that stage, the group in front of us was already in progress. It turns out that acting like some movie hero badass and throwing grenades at people through a window is more awkward than it looks on film. Some of the guys were so lame about it, that at first we thought you were supposed to open a window and feed some ducks, then apparently blast some bad guys. Overall a pretty fun day. Oh yeah, the "flashbangs" were old shotgun shells wrapped in duct tape.

Ben B. · Post by **Ben B.** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:51 pm

Won the local IDPA match this month, my second time for an overall win. Ended up brewing today instead of shooting, so my wife could go do a run, but I'll likely hit one of the big local USPSA matches tomorrow. Looks more and more like I'll get to go to IDPA Nat'l this year.

skychaser53 · Post by **skychaser53** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:12 pm

Hey Stu. you posted while I was typing lol. As yuo know I did an IDPA introduction shoot today. It was great. I doesn't matter if you shoot IDPA or the other 2. The important thing is that the more you shoot the better you get. Some don't like their"cover" rule, but it's there to keep you alive.. If you are standing in the open reloading you are going to probably die. simple as that.
Beep ! bang bang bang bang ! !

skychaser53 · Post by **skychaser53** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:13 pm

pneumagger wrote: Matches are about 3 hours every other week, cost $10, and usually require about 1-2 boxes of ammo - so figure about $25-$50 per match.

pneumagger ..Where do you shoot in Ohio? I was at Circleville this morning.

Diomed · Post by **Diomed** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:16 am

Something to consider - make sure your gun works. I reclaimed last place in the local ICORE comp on the strength of my gun needing two or three tries to get every round to go off. (I knew it would do that, but it's still kind of annoying.)

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:29 pm

We saw two broken guns that day. A 1911 and some small gun, maybe a Para Warthog perhaps?

thunderhole · Post by **thunderhole** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:06 pm

Anything you choose will good. I've shot bullseye, PPC, and IDPA and I learned something from each one of them. Your gunhandling, confidence, etc. will increase exponentially no matter which one you choose.

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:47 pm

Okay, I got the score sheet, but I have NO idea what I'm looking at. I can tell that I am 10 out of 30 in my division (I think) which is a HUGE surprise to me. The guy right below me, was far and away a MUCH better shooter than I am.

Anyway, I can't seem to find a link to tell me what I am looking at on the score sheet. Would someone mind taking a look at it for me?

http://www.coloradoshooting.org/FRIDPA/ ... esults.htm

My name on the sheet is listed as Sturat. lol

Ben B. · Post by **Ben B.** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:40 pm

The guy below you really blew it on the flashbang stage. If you had entered as ESP and shot the same score, you would have taken second in ESP. The same score was in the lower 50% of CDP (1911 .45s).

It looks like that club allows "Outlaw" guns, like IPSC race guns and/or holsters. Ignore those. Overall you placed about 17 of 51, right at the top 3rd of the regular class shooters. You had 22 points down which when divided by 2 equals 11 seconds added to your raw time time, and that equals your score. Did you have some misses on stages 3 & 4? No procedurals. Overall a good early match. Have fun and keep it up.

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:44 pm

I do believe that any stage where I missed targets would have been three and four. My group did stage 4 first, and the targets were so close that I just looked at them and pulled the trigger. I found out quickly that doesn't work and I needed to make an effort to actually aim the gun. We did stage 3 last and that stage required moving and firing at the same time, so I'm sure I had some misses there as well.

Thanks for the break down, I appreciate it. I'm completely shocked though.

rob_s · Post by **rob_s** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:12 am

Stu wrote:Okay, I got the score sheet, but I have NO idea what I'm looking at. I can tell that I am 10 out of 30 in my division (I think) which is a HUGE surprise to me. The guy right below me, was far and away a MUCH better shooter than I am.

Anyway, I can't seem to find a link to tell me what I am looking at on the score sheet. Would someone mind taking a look at it for me?

http://www.coloradoshooting.org/FRIDPA/ ... esults.htm

My name on the sheet is listed as Sturat. lol

that's a pretty comprehensive scoring readout, with lots of raw data. The first set of headings, for any given stage, which give you the raw numbers are:
Raw Time | Pts Dn | PE | FTN | HNS | FTDR

Pts Dn = points down, or the score of all the hits outside the -0 for a given stage.

PE = penalties, or things like failing to use cover properly, dropping a loaded magazine, etc.

FTN = Failure to Neutralize, or failing to score the needed number of hits on a target.

HNS = Hits on Nonthreat, or hitting a non-threat target. FYI, hits ANYWHERE on a "good guy" are considered HNS

FTDR = Failure to do Right, which is a gross and intentional disregard for the rules.

The second set of headings are the calculated totals and they are:
Stage Raw Time | Pts Dn/2 | Pen Sec | Total Stage Score

Pts Dn/2 = points down divided by two. Pretty self explanatory, but basically any points in IDPA are divided by two to convert them to time. No idea why this s--t has to be this complicated. I'd prefer to just see them be -1 second and -3 seconds.

Pen Sec = Penatly seconds, which totals up all of your procedurals and FTDRs and adds them to the time.

It looks like you shot 1 and 2 clean, but had a pretty high number of points down on 3 & 4. The guy below you may have looked better than you, but he took 26 seconds longer on Stage 2 than you did, and that's death.

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:25 am

Thanks for the break down guys. There were so many shooters and people "helping" that by the time I could locate my one mag at the end of the round, they were done scoring and I had no idea how well I did.

I think I had alright times because I didn't bother to worry about being timed at all. I just set my expectations low and shot the way I would if I were alone anyway. While this is the very thing that stunts my learning curve when I'm just plinking (doing the same thing EVERY time, no matter what I think I'm going to try), I feel like it helped establish a good base of what I'm capable of just from all my range time.