KevinB says "PDW off the back burner"?

mcmillanman5 · Post by **mcmillanman5** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:22 pm

My misunderstanding.

cmdecker · Post by **cmdecker** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:54 pm

deleted.

apochachuva · Post by **apochachuva** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:20 pm

One 8" PDW please and a small order of fries.

3 · Post by 3 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:32 pm

Please not this again. We are looking for major interest from departments or dealers that can come to the table for a large order; not " I want one in SBR as long as they are 2000$ and ammo is .25/ round" I would love to see KAC make this gun more than anyone out there but I would much rather just have them for sale one day instead of being harassed with delivery dates. We are trying to guage interest from large groups. I think we have done enough "market research" for individual sales.

cwilliams · Post by **cwilliams** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:37 pm

3 wrote:Please not this again. We are looking for major interest from departments or dealers that can come to the table for a large order; not " I want one in SBR as long as they are 2000$ and ammo is .25/ round" I would love to see KAC make this gun more than anyone out there but I would much rather just have them for sale one day instead of being harassed with delivery dates. We are trying to guage interest from large groups. I think we have done enough "market research" for individual sales.

ouch

mcmillanman5 · Post by **mcmillanman5** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:17 pm

3 wrote:Please not this again. We are looking for major interest from departments or dealers that can come to the table for a large order; not " I want one in SBR as long as they are 2000$ and ammo is .25/ round" I would love to see KAC make this gun more than anyone out there but I would much rather just have them for sale one day instead of being harassed with delivery dates. We are trying to guage interest from large groups. I think we have done enough "market research" for individual sales.

My mistake and apologies. I guess I misunderstood KevinB's post on LF. I will edit my original post.

3 · Post by 3 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:33 pm

No big deal. I could erase it if I felt the need. I did not mean to offend mcmillanman5. I just don't want to go through this again. If we were to start today it would be a year or more before these things were on the market. The main thing is I feel this is taking away from the reintroduction of the 7.62 line which was a major effort. KevinB just loves this gun as much as I do because he has had some time behind it. He understands how well this gun fills a certain niche.

I'm going to let him handle it this time. After that I'm going to have him call all the SR-50 customers that still have one on deposit.

mcmillanman5 · Post by **mcmillanman5** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:42 pm

No offense taken, I don't want to contribute to any headache on your guys part. I just read more into Kevin's post than was there.

I really like what you guys are doing as far as civilian sales go, so please keep it up.

KevinB · Post by **KevinB** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:15 am

Originally posted by KevinB:AND we have had interest in a semi auto SBR PDW.
SOT's if your interested let me know. We have a potential 500 unit order but we'd like to hit 1000 if we can.

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I wanted to highlight the above. Right now there is no semi-auto PDW, and prior to us doing one we need a FIRM comittment to an order. We have one dealer that has a tentative 500gun order, but they did not confirm it. We would like to KNOW we have 1000 units sold prior to going forward with the design changes to a semi-auto.

Please keep buying our 7.62mm guns

I went back to Lighfighter and highlighted the pertinent parts, and added the additional clarification as well.

I love that gun, and I would get one for me and one for the wife. So I really want some SOT's to do the math and canvass their people. That said, I know the economy is tough on people right now, and its hard to get a lot of money together with a long wait time before you would see a return.

Smilodon · Post by **Smilodon** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:16 pm

I don't want to add to your headaches either, but would really very much like to have a PDW. How about non refundable deposits to separe those who will cough up $$$ from the tire kickers? When you get a 1000 deposits do a run......Just thinking out loud? Make the deposti enough to cover your projected expenses for each unit? Keep up the good work, I hope you get a big contract for this gun, you/it really deserve one!

BWT · Post by **BWT** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:10 am

Smilodon wrote:I don't want to add to your headaches either, but would really very much like to have a PDW. How about non refundable deposits to separe those who will cough up $$$ from the tire kickers? When you get a 1000 deposits do a run......Just thinking out loud? Make the deposti enough to cover your projected expenses for each unit? Keep up the good work, I hope you get a big contract for this gun, you/it really deserve one!

What I would do, if I was an enterprising individual such as yourself.

Is go over to Light Fighter, find the guy with the "Tentative" 500 gun order, and throw your name in the pile as Confirmed. They want a 1,000 gun order from a dealer, because they don't want to have to remember "X" from Ar15.com and "B" over at Silencer Talk, "C" over at LightFighter, "D" over at Sniper's hide.

They want their money instantly, because they're going to have to change production, it sounds like modify the design of the PDW some, and then also start having to put out to market the replacement components for those guns, as well as spare magazines, there also has to be enough demand from end users, with enough guns out there, for certain Ammo Manufacturers to say "You know what, we'll take the risk and take the time to build X many rounds without any order or any promise of a return on investment."

So they probably would have to go negotiate with an Ammunition Manufacturer. To get them on board too.

I hate to say this, but 1,000 guns is not a lot, realistically, to re-tool, and lose the manufacturing time they have on backordered items like, oh I don't know, SR-15E3's, Mk110's, SR-25 Battle Rifles. That people are beating down the doors for. The reason they're saying they're waiting for a massive order, or a military contract, is that's the only time, it's not going to be a loss to cut the production of other items, or maybe invest in new machines to make this separate line of weapons.

They want their money from one or two dealers and they want it up front. Dealers are afraid to commit and giving "tentative" orders, because they don't have the capital, or are afraid to use that much capital to confirm that order. You're one more in the pot on the "Tentative" list, inching it closer to "Confirmed".

KAC, has to take a lot on in faith to do a Commercial Run of PDW's, and it seems they're willing to do it, but not at that point of hazarding having the guns they build lying around gathering dust, with no Ammunition Manufacturer backing them, and a bunch of "Tentative" orders. Then you add in the fact that some of them are going to SBR's, and... that shrinks the market by IMHO, 75-80%, but then again KAC caters to primarily the NFA Market, so it seems, I could be over estimating that figure.

I think KAC, at least while the PDW isn't exactly a well-known item (All we have is hearsay, realistically), wants the guns sold before they make them, to at least make them worth while to X amount.

But I also repair computers part time, and shoot guns when I can, while I go to school. I'm not in the "know", so this is...somewhat of an educated guess.

I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Ryo · Post by **Ryo** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:39 am

Definitely the SBR is going to cut the market down. Part of it is from just state laws. I would go for this, but can't due to SBR restrictions.

apochachuva · Post by **apochachuva** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:12 am

BWT wrote:What I would do, if I was an enterprising individual such as yourself.

Is go over to Light Fighter, find the guy with the "Tentative" 500 gun order, and throw your name in the pile as Confirmed.

This is hard to do as there were no details given of this dealer.

BWT · Post by **BWT** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:16 am

apochachuva wrote:
BWT wrote:What I would do, if I was an enterprising individual such as yourself.

Is go over to Light Fighter, find the guy with the "Tentative" 500 gun order, and throw your name in the pile as Confirmed.
This is hard to do as there were no details given of this dealer.

This is true. KevinB, if the dealer wouldn't mind, I'd start handing out his name as "Contact this guy, get on the list, and we'll be this much closer to doing it." That'll be the medium for people to decide if they're serious or not.

Giving them an alternative to just saying "Hey, I think they'd sell."

Just an idea.