W.T.F DIAS "Drop In Auto Sear

MrPhotoGuyInc · Post by **MrPhotoGuyInc** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:08 pm

So if you don't own an AR you can get this?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =153244618

ArevaloSOCOM · Post by **ArevaloSOCOM** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:27 pm

IIRC the BATFE considers it a MG all by itself.........

Black · Post by **Black** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:32 pm

So you just buy it, and hold onto it, but you can never use it and neither can anybody else? I'm confused.

I understand that they say you could own it as long as you don't own an AR15 or the other full auto parts, for constructive intent, right?

But... what would be the point? If one buddy owns the full auto sthuff and you own the sear, and then when the Zombies invade whoever survives gets to assembled the machine gun?

aquajon · Post by **aquajon** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:26 pm

ArevaloSOCOM wrote:IIRC the BATFE considers it a MG all by itself.........

This is my understanding as well, but only ones manufactures after a certain date (don't remember the date). If you had one, you might be able to argue it was a "pre-ban" one. Since there is no serial number it would be hard for ATF to prove one way or another.

Regardless, possession of a non registered DIAS and any semi-auto AR15 is considered constructive possession. As stated above, possession of the DIAS alone may also be considered possession of an unregistered machine gun all by itself as well. I don't know if there has been any case law to back that up though.

kimbershot · Post by **kimbershot** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:35 am

look at the bidder's feedback--buying mg parts/receiver. if it smells like s--t, you don't have to step in it.

BWT · Post by **BWT** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:12 am

I would stay away from that one,

YMMV.

You can have it, but not an AR-15.

So basically, you can buy a chunk of metal for $100 if it makes you feel good to have a useless piece of metal.

YugoRPK · Post by **YugoRPK** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:11 pm

You can use it in a pre 81 registered receiver gun that uses a non registered DIAS. Yes, there are some.

You can own it if you don't own an AR-15.

You can buy one if you are a 02/07 SOT and want to build a post sample with a DIAS and don't want to register the receiver.

You can be like the people who buy one out of shotgun news for 1/3 what that one costs and build an illegal machinegun like most of the machineguns in this country are. Its a risk to benefit analysis sort of thing.

Twinsen · Post by **Twinsen** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:17 pm

Well good luck to anyone with an illegal MG. I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole on the end of a radio controlled car... on mars.

dj_fatstyles · Post by **dj_fatstyles** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:39 pm

Twinsen wrote:Well good luck to anyone with an illegal MG. I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole on the end of a radio controlled car... on mars.

agreed. smells like an agent doing some entrapment. dias's are considered mg by the atf so even having that in washington is illegal.

renegade · Post by **renegade** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:43 pm

YugoRPK wrote:You can use it in a pre 81 registered receiver gun that uses a non registered DIAS. Yes, there are some.

yes, and BATFE considers them illegal (see letter below).

You can own it if you don't own an AR-15.

Not legally. As SOCOM says, BATFE considers them MGs. So do the courts (see US vs Cash). The original "Pre-81" ruling has long since obsoleted by new laws and Case Law.

You can buy one if you are a 02/07 SOT and want to build a post sample with a DIAS and don't want to register the receiver.

Not legally An 07/02 has to make it themselves on their own premises. Buying it pre-made is illegal.
.

[img[http://www.texassmallarmsresearch.com/B ... tions2.jpg[/img]

YugoRPK · Post by **YugoRPK** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:48 pm

dj_fatstyles wrote:
Twinsen wrote:Well good luck to anyone with an illegal MG. I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole on the end of a radio controlled car... on mars.
agreed. smells like an agent doing some entrapment. dias's are considered mg by the atf so even having that in washington is illegal.

A good lawyer would get you off on that. In Washington the machinegun part has to be one that is used solely in a machinegun. A DIAS can be used as a safety sear without additional machinegun components. Wouldnt be ATF legal on the federal level but its enough of a loophole that any lawyer worth his salt could get you off on state charges assuming you didnt have possession of an AR-15.

Suppress-on has been selling those things in the SGN for 20+ years. Legal to use...no. Legal to buy and sell...yes.

YugoRPK · Post by **YugoRPK** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:52 pm

renegade wrote:
YugoRPK wrote:You can use it in a pre 81 registered receiver gun that uses a non registered DIAS. Yes, there are some.

yes, and BATFE considers them illegal (see letter below).

You can own it if you don't own an AR-15.

Not legally. As SOCOM says, BATFE considers them MGs. So do the courts (see US vs Cash). The original "Pre-81" ruling has long since obsoleted by new laws and Case Law.

You can buy one if you are a 02/07 SOT and want to build a post sample with a DIAS and don't want to register the receiver.

Not legally An 07/02 has to make it themselves on their own premises. Buying it pre-made is illegal.
.

So are they going to refund the $200 and recind the tax stamp they already issued to the holder of that form 1 prior to 1981?

renegade · Post by **renegade** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:59 pm

YugoRPK wrote:
So are they going to refund the $200 and recind the tax stamp they already issued to the holder of that form 1 prior to 1981?

I imagine anyone who had one of those guns would just modify the receiver (illegally) and toss the DIAS and nobody would be the wiser. But I am cynical like that.

skychaser53 · Post by **skychaser53** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:18 pm

Does BATF allow shotgun news to sell DIAS's ? Yes. Are the Dias legal ? answer, no.

The consensus among a lot of people is that , when you have a DIAS in your house. You give the BATF probable cause to get a search warrant anytime they wish..........

I wouldn't touch a DIAS with a 10 foot pole.

They were Dias's for sale at a gun show last month. 100 bucks. I didn't see anyone buy one.

edit
a record of anything you buy online is available forever to the legal system

put your fastfood money in a jar every week untill you can afford to buy a leagl RDIAS. (registered DIAS)

people will tell you all day that a THEIR DIAS was made before 1986. It doesnt matter when it was made.It's illegal or it would sell for 12 thousand dollars.. It's not worth losing your job and 2 or 3 years in jail.Your right to own GUNS. etc etc.. Most people dont get the 10 year sentence.

YugoRPK · Post by **YugoRPK** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:54 pm

skychaser53 wrote:Does BATF allow shotgun news to sell DIAS's ? Yes. Are the Dias legal ? answer, no.

The consensus among a lot of people is that , when you have a DIAS in your house. You give the BATF probable cause to get a search warrant anytime they wish..........

I wouldn't touch a DIAS with a 10 foot pole.

They were Dias's for sale at a gun show last month. 100 bucks. I didn't see anyone buy one.

edit
a record of anything you buy online is available forever to the legal system

put your fastfood money in a jar every week untill you can afford to buy a leagl RDIAS. (registered DIAS)

people will tell you all day that a THEIR DIAS was made before 1986. It doesnt matter when it was made.It's illegal or it would sell for 12 thousand dollars.. It's not worth losing your job and 2 or 3 years in jail.Your right to own GUNS. etc etc.. Most people dont get the 10 year sentence.

I suppose thats part of the reason Suppress On has never sold them online. Its always been a money order/C.O.D company . If I wanted a DIAS and I didnt care what the law said I'd buy one and have it shipped to a post office or drop box and have it shipped to somewhere else for pickup. Everyone imagines they are an ATF sting operation but I know people who have bought them years ago and they all got them and never heard another word about it.

RavenArmament · Post by **RavenArmament** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:05 pm

Not legally An 07/02 has to make it themselves on their own premises. Buying it pre-made is illegal.

How so? If they get a love letter?

Rhetorical==> Why would a C2 buy one, just make one?

Diomed · Post by **Diomed** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:49 am

freakshow10mm wrote:How so? If they get a love letter?

Rhetorical==> Why would a C2 buy one, just make one?

The issue is that it's pre-made and is a machinegun when you receive it. No one but the government can lawfully register an existing NFA device. You would be falsely registering something in violation of the NFA.

You have to make it right there on your licensed premises - either from scratch or by remanufacturing something someone else already made.

dangerdan87 · Post by **dangerdan87** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:49 am

So, say if you had an RDIAS and it somehow broke beyond repair, could you destroy it and buy and get away with buying an unregistered DIAS? If it has no serial number and you have the paperwork for your $14,000 broken piece of metal?

I dont own one, but was just wondering. I know its not legal...but hey..

yellowfin · Post by **yellowfin** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:51 pm

I believe there's a Mexican made version called the Buenos DIAS.

Sigproshooter · Post by **Sigproshooter** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:38 pm

yellowfin wrote:I believe there's a Mexican made version called the Buenos DIAS.

good stuff

PTK · Post by **PTK** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:24 am

yellowfin wrote:I believe there's a Mexican made version called the Buenos DIAS.

Heard it coming from around the corner. That one was wearing tap shoes.