Have you ever shot a pistol match with your silencer?

[Libertarian_Geek]

I'm interested in hearing the results. Have any of you shot a complete pistol match with a can? I'm sure it wouldn't be IDPA or IPSC, but perhaps some practical/tactical match. I just got my 1st can, and enjoy shooting with it, but wonder how enjoyable it would be in a match.

What did you do for a holster?
Tell us about your experience please.

[rob_s]

I can tell you that we would not allow it at our club due almost entirely to the holster issue. We had a guy come out that wanted to try to shoot suppressed at our practice night that had his suppressed HK in an Uncle Mike's holster and had to pull the pistol up to his armpit to try to draw it.

[MisterWilson]

I've heard of some people using rifle cans during matches and it sometimes interfered with the SHOT timer.

[chrismartin]

Not run-and-gun, but bowling pin matches. I know, not the same thing, but still fun...

Video of me shooting P229 with Evo 9

You'll probably need QuickTime to view...

[Libertarian_Geek]

Yeah.. I've thought of the holster issue. I figure that it would have to start weapon in hand.

I'd heard of the shot timer issue before. I guess that really boils down to a situation where you can set sensitivity low enough to pick up the shots, but at that point, are you picking up shots from other stages (if your range has more than one stage running at a time).

I use a couple of shot timer apps on my iPhone where you can adjust sensitivity low enough to pick up an airsoft gun consistently (makes for great practice).

[Artful]

I can tell you that we would not allow it at our club due almost entirely to the holster issue. We had a guy come out that wanted to try to shoot suppressed at our practice night that had his suppressed HK in an Uncle Mike's holster and had to pull the pistol up to his armpit to try to draw it.

Bingo - I had to get a drop leg holster to make it work at all and the length of draw causes way slower times, I've since had a plastic snap in front break holster created (for P38 and M1895 Nagant revolver) but I haven't tried them in a match yet - with the right holster it should be a big deal. But you will need to practice first as the can throws the balance of with weapon off from your regular feel , causes me to over correct. Still fun - people always expect the pfut of hollywood - tough to get them to realize it's not like that. Good to educate the masses.

[Snake-eater 1]

I tried a few months ago. We held an IDPA-style match for beginners and all starts were from low ready, gun on table, etc. Turned out I couldn't play, the shots wouldn't register on the timer, regardless of sensitivity settings.

[Cortland]

I, like Chris, have shot suppressed at bowling pin matches I felt like the suppressor was a slight disadvantage. YMMV.

[Conqueror]

If someone wanted to use one at our matches, I'd ask them to start from low ready rather than a holster. I haven't tried it yet, but I'd like to run an IPSC-type course of fire with a suppressor just to attempt it.

[Garrett]

Bowling pin match:
(not sure how to embed a video here)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yvhggSNiUc

I also shoot suppressed .22 rifle and pistol at bowling pin matches. The local club puts the pins on the back edge of the table and shoots .22LR in the winter. They tend to shatter when it is below freezing and shot with centerfire.

Bowling pin matches work well because the time doesn't stop until the last pin hits the ground. You have someone with a stop button on the timer for these events.

I've shot a couple of USPSA matches with the suppressed Glock too. They usually have issues picking up the shots on the timer. The RO has to hold the timer right up next to the ejection port on the last shot to pick it up. Even then it often doesn't work with the Glock.

We can run a second gun at the weekly USPSA match here, and I'll sometimes run with a subgun. The timer picks up the last shot on the Uzi a little better. Again, it has to be close to the ejection port to pick it up, though. I'm thinking it's hearing the bolt slapping.

As for holsters, you can get some of the race-type holsters to work with little or no modification.

[Walkure]

I, like Chris, have shot suppressed at bowling pin matches I felt like the suppressor was a slight disadvantage. YMMV.

I shoot weekly pin matches, almost always suppressed. I don't find it to be any disadvantage whatsoever. We allow shooters to start from either low-ready or a holster.

I run my suppressed CZ75B out of my USPSA/IPSC race rig, which is set up with a Ghost holster. The rig is really for my CZ75 TS, but a regular 75 fits as well as the trigger guards are the same.

Everything else starts from low-ready, as is more typical for pin matches.

Bowling pin matches work well because the time doesn't stop until the last pin hits the ground. You have someone with a stop button on the timer for these events.

Pin matches can be run in many different ways. Those I shoot are run at an indoor range, two shooters at a time. Most of the time it is actually just run it as a fun night, without worrying about anybody "winning" or anything like that. We run with limited ammo and par time, so when just run as a fun night, you are only running against those limits and the other shooter on the line. When run as a match, if you can't clear the pins with the rounds and time you have, you are eliminated. We shoot at three distances, from close to far, each with the same par time. Then we continue to shoot from the furthest distance with decreasing par time until all but one have been eliminated.

Neither the fun shoots nor the match system require shot timers registering.

[Ben B.]

I ran a few local steel stages with a suppressed .22, the timer had to be pretty close to the port to get it.

At 2009 IDPA Nat'ls there was a stage that started with an Evo 9 on a Glock, which was kind of cool. I'm going to set up something similar this summer at one of our IDPA matches this summer.

[Davo5o]

SOF 3-gun matches every time. I do a lot of 3-gun throughout the season, and always shoot suppressed pistol and now rifle at all the SOF matches. I have a couple of blackhawk holsters that work great and are no problem for drawing. I always use 30rd glock mags too, so that makes up for my small disadvantage in speed.

The night matches I've shot with suppressor and laser/light everyone else's scores were double mine. No one was even in the same ball park. I was double tapping head shoots the whole match just for fun.

I'm going to shoot my next night 3-gun match with NVGs.

My saiga12 with 20rd drums wins all my 3-gun matches for me. No one else can even compete with that thing.

[Twinsen]

I can tell you that we would not allow it at our club due almost entirely to the holster issue. We had a guy come out that wanted to try to shoot suppressed at our practice night that had his suppressed HK in an Uncle Mike's holster and had to pull the pistol up to his armpit to try to draw it.

Is that dangerous somehow, or do you just not like that guy?

[VanKamp]

Amadini ghost holster should run like a champ.

[VanKamp]

Edited: Delete double posting. Fail

[Davo5o]

Amadini ghost holster should run like a champ.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to run around with it on or hit the deck.

I've seen way better holsters have guns eject during comps, and cost top notch shooters a complete match DQ. And these were not cheap 3 day events.

Besides, race holsters are just weak sauce. No application to real world.

[rob_s]

I can tell you that we would not allow it at our club due almost entirely to the holster issue. We had a guy come out that wanted to try to shoot suppressed at our practice night that had his suppressed HK in an Uncle Mike's holster and had to pull the pistol up to his armpit to try to draw it.

Is that dangerous somehow, or do you just not like that guy?

It was all sorts of messy. He was having trouble doing it when simply asked to demonstrate, slowly, how he planned on getting that gun in and out of that holster with that can attached. Speed it up, have him do it the hundred or so times he's likely to do it over the course of the night, and it's a recipe for disaster to allow that guy to run that gun with that can from that holster.

FWIW, I had nothing to do with sending him home, others did. I was only observing and then discussed it with the safety officers after the fact. I do not know if they let him shoot with the can unattached or if he decided he didn't want to shoot if he couldn't use the can.



General note...

Competitive shooting brings out all types, who are there for all sorts of reasons. For some it's about improving their skillsets for defensive or professional purposes, for some it's purely about winning, for some it's about fun and camaraderie, and for some it's a chance to work out their guns & gear. For most it's some combination of all of the above plus others. As long as they can do it safely, and operate within the guidelines of whatever sanctioning body we're shooting under (IDPA, USPSA, whatever) all are welcome.

However, one of the things that I am proud of in having run our carbine drills/practice nights over the last year+ (might even be up to 2 years now...) is watching the mindset shift in some of the shooters. They go from worrying about gizmos and gadgets clamped and molle'd onto their guns and selves and start focusing on what we're there for which is to hit the target. The chatter behind the line when waiting their turn shifts from "hey, what's that you got bolted on there?" to "hey, can you show me how you did that transition to pistol?" or "I see your stance is different than mine can you tell me why you prefer your way?" It's gratifying to see some people start to "get it" after awhile. I think of it, pun intended, as a "gear shift", as in a shift away from worrying so much about the gear for gear's sake.

[rob_s]

I've heard of some people using rifle cans during matches and it sometimes interfered with the SHOT timer.

We have several shooters that shoot our carbine matches suppressed, and some with full auto as well. We have definitely found it to be a challenge with the timer.

The good news is that the timer only really cares about the last shot fired. When I run a suppressed shooter I simply hit the button so they get the beep, and then hold the timer as I normally would. As they get closer to the end of the stage I move the timer up near the ejection port where it pretty much always registers either the shot or the brass hitting the timer.

We tell shooters that want to run suppressed that we have no objection but if the time does not register they will get 1,000 seconds for the stage as it was their choice to shoot with the can on. I also try to explain to them beforehand the method I described above so that when they see my hand with a big blue box appear in their right-side peripheral vision they know what it is and why it's there and aren't startled.

Overall I don't recall the last time I had to give someone 1,000 seconds, but being a can owner I'm probably more sensitive to those shooters than some other SOs.

[VanKamp]

Besides, race holsters are just weak sauce. No application to real world.

Totally agree with you on that one, but that wasn't the question. After thinking about it a little bit, however, the extra weight and length of a can could generate a lot more torque than the holster lock was designed for so you're probably right all around on that one. That's what I love about this forum, I learn so much especially because my initial ideas are checked and challenged. Makes for a more refined view of things. Thanks Davo5o.
ETA: fixed quote, not my week for posting.

[Garrett]

Amadini ghost holster should run like a champ.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to run around with it on or hit the deck.

I've seen way better holsters have guns eject during comps...

You have obviously not handled one of these then. When locked, you would likely break the trigger guard off the gun before it would fall out.

Besides, race holsters are just weak sauce. No application to real world.

We are talking about competitions here. You know - sports - games. The whole point is to get maximum points in minimum time. You don't have someone shooting back at you and everyone goes home when you're done. It's a matching of the equipment to the "mission" as it were.

I'm sure having a holster that holds a suppressed gun securely, and yet offers a snag-free draw would never have any "real world" application. Definitely "weak sauce". Or something.

[Ben B.]

I really like the gun games, and I understand that the frame of reference for IPSC should be "racing".

I just can't get past the feeling that Open guns and Ghost-type holsters really are weak sauce.

[silentobsession]

I have a couple of blackhawk holsters that work great and are no problem for drawing.

Which ones do you have that allow for a suppressor?

[Davo5o]

viewtopic.php?t=47827&highlight=holsters

Towards the bottom, with pics.

I've posted this info many times and never really get any response?

It seems once I show people real-world options, they just go away?

Personally I hate race holsters, and have no time for them. To each their own.

[PTK]

The Blackhawk! factory is neat. That's all I really have to add.